EnySpree wrote:You see it as soon as the whistle blows. Tyson, Felton, Smith and iman all complain way too much. They take the whole team out of flow. Felton actually stomps his feet and pouts while he walks around.

Watch a team like Miami. They never complain as hard as the knicks do. Teams know if they can get in our heads the game is over. Nobody on our roster rallies the troops. I think that's what Kurt thomas and Jason Kidd brought to the table.

Our 1999 team and 94 team each had guys that settled the team. The famous scene after lj hit the 3, Chris Childs calmed him down cuz he still had that free throw to make. We simply don't have anyone like that.

Winning teams don't have just one. They have several. The great teams every single player on the roster is in the same page. That's what carries them.

TeamBall wrote:

EnySpree wrote:You see it as soon as the whistle blows. Tyson, Felton, Smith and iman all complain way too much. They take the whole team out of flow. Felton actually stomps his feet and pouts while he walks around.

Watch a team like Miami. They never complain as hard as the knicks do. Teams know if they can get in our heads the game is over. Nobody on our roster rallies the troops. I think that's what Kurt thomas and Jason Kidd brought to the table.

Our 1999 team and 94 team each had guys that settled the team. The famous scene after lj hit the 3, Chris Childs calmed him down cuz he still had that free throw to make. We simply don't have anyone like that.

Winning teams don't have just one. They have several. The great teams every single player on the roster is in the same page. That's what carries them.

I think Wade and Lebron do their share of complaining to the refs but in a far different manner. They approach the ref and calmly tell them what happened and all that. With us, there are some bad occasions where all 5 guys on the floor throw their hands in the air and make noises.

That's called working the refs though. It's championship basketball

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Do you think Andre miller helps with the leadership void if acquired? Felton/shump for dre and Quincy works on trade checker.

he may be able to provide some things that would help from game-to-game, but leadership gotta come from your best players to set the tone for the whole team. Melo doesn't put in effort on Defensive end and so he would never be in a good position to provide leadership to someone like Shump or for team in a way that would be completely effective. The complaining from Felton and Chandler hurt their reputations in the same way. And you can't clown around as much as Amare does to be effective - I want to say that during his first season with the Knicks he was locked in a others followed.

I think Melo has been working a lot harder on d this year. I just don't know if it is in his make up to communicate like leader. I remember an article where Hahn compared Melo and D'Antoni and said their personalities were very similar. I think he talked about difficulties in communicating, avoiding confrontations etc.

I have noticed that he is working harder on defense but there are also times where he takes off on D. If his effort on D matched that on O (regardless of his skill level in the D department), I wouldn't mind. But he takes off plays and switches too easily, etc. When Melo at the power forward spot, there is zero weak side help. None, just like when Bargs is playing there. Incredible rebounding effort this year.

“I watched the tape myself and there’s open looks,” Chandler said after practice Sunday. “We have to be willing passers. You have to sacrifice yourself sometimes for the betterment of the team, for the betterment of your teammates. So when you drive in the paint, you draw, you kick it. We need to do a better job of allowing the game to dictate who takes the shots and not the individuals.

“I’m not saying that anybody is doing it maliciously. I think it’s moreso a situation, you want to take over the game or you want to make a big shot, where you have to just stick to the game plan. Good teams win basketball games. Unless you’re a great, great, great individual, and we’ve only had a few of those come through.”

7 7 2013-05-05 30-215 NYK IND L (-7) 1 28:24 2 2 1.000 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 2 6 4 2.7 -8
8 8 2013-05-07 30-217 NYK IND W (+26) 1 30:33 4 5 .800 0 0 0 0 2 2 4 1 0 0 0 3 8 7.6 +21
9 9 2013-05-11 30-221 NYK @ IND L (-11) 1 29:54 3 4 .750 0 0 3 5 .600 1 4 5 0 0 3 1 5 9 7.6 -14
10 10 2013-05-14 30-224 NYK @ IND L (-11) 1 40:06 4 9 .444 0 0 4 4 1.000 7 3 10 0 1 3 2 4 12 12.6 -5
11 11 2013-05-16 30-226 NYK IND W (+10) 1 27:14 1 4 .250 0 0 0 0 3 5 8 0 1 2 0 5 2 3.6 0
12 12 2013-05-18 30-228 NYK @ IND L (-7) 1 22:53 1 4 .250 0 0 0 0 5 1 6 0 0 0 0 6 2 1.0 -17

“It’s tough, but the thing is I’m never going to hang my head and I’m going to make sure nobody in this locker room does,” Chandler said after Friday’s game. “The thing is we have to fix it. We have to attack the problem head on. There’s going to be no pity parties. We have to take care of it and fix it.”

Chandler also questioned the team’s approach Friday night, saying “we have to be a little more strategic about what we’re doing offensively and defensively, understand who has it going and what’s working, make it easier on guys out there.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/woodson-hints-smaller-lineup-article-1.1584263#ixzz2qpJICboH

I agree the leadership is lacking - the will to win- but not sure if we have leaders like we did from last year (Kidd) or any we could aquire this year that it would really make a measurable difference.

Bonn1997 wrote:

It's not that we lost leaders. It's that we lost efficient players - Novak, Prigs for most of the season, Tyson for most of the season, and lost the versatility Kidd brought for most of last season. It's interesting if you look at last year's win shares: Tyson had 9.3 last year, Kidd 5.4, Novak 4.0, and Prigs 3.2. You can divide those #s by 2 since we've played half a season, and you get roughly 11 win shares lost. And those 11 wins would put us right on track for last season. That's a slight overestimate since Prigs and Tyson have played a little and the players we've replaced them with have contributed a tiny amount, but the predictions also take into account decline and increased injuries due to age. The difference in the teams' success was largely both predictable and predicted. None of us (including me) saw how big the difference was - we just didn't want to.

Bonn - you make excellent points.

Kurt Thomas was a traffic cop. Rasheed Wallace was an enforcer. Marcus Camby had the bond with Kurt from the 1999 run. They were all workers. When any of them spoke, players listened. All had presence.

Ball don't lie.