NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Vmart wrote:It's official Shump is a Chump and needs to be dumped. I no longer think Shump is a viable option. I'll take a second rounder for him today, tomorrow and the next day.

I wouldn't mind seeing him traded as well, but second rounders are pretty much worthless. Who's the best non-European to come out of the second round? I can think of any really good players whatsoever. Second round picks at best turn into average players. I'd rather get another player for shump than 1 second round pick. I'd do it for two second rounders, but one just isn't enough.

Rashard Lewis (all-star), Manu Ginobli (perennial all-star; Argentinian not European so he counts), Michael Redd (perennial all-star), Gilbert Arenas (perennial all-star), Carlos Boozer (all-star)....the list is pretty lengthy.

Most of those players are good but not great, what I'm saying is that in the second round it's very unlikely you get a very good player. None of those guys are HOF besides maybe Manu. When I said no Europeans I meant Manu, ironic he's not even European.

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Vmart wrote:It's official Shump is a Chump and needs to be dumped. I no longer think Shump is a viable option. I'll take a second rounder for him today, tomorrow and the next day.

I wouldn't mind seeing him traded as well, but second rounders are pretty much worthless. Who's the best non-European to come out of the second round? I can think of any really good players whatsoever. Second round picks at best turn into average players. I'd rather get another player for shump than 1 second round pick. I'd do it for two second rounders, but one just isn't enough.

Rashard Lewis (all-star), Manu Ginobli (perennial all-star; Argentinian not European so he counts), Michael Redd (perennial all-star), Gilbert Arenas (perennial all-star), Carlos Boozer (all-star)....the list is pretty lengthy.

Most of those players are good but not great, what I'm saying is that in the second round it's very unlikely you get a very good player. None of those guys are HOF besides maybe Manu. When I said no Europeans I meant Manu, ironic he's not even European.

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Crawford is speaking now. I remember people on this board called him Crawfall. Now he is doing just fine. Seem when we chase good players out of town they do better. Melo don't need this and it probably won't get better next season. These young players we have like Murray just seems ok but I do not see him ever being a starter. If something don't happen fast all I can see is dark days ahead. I just can't see Felton as a starting point guard.

Yeah, I'm already over the Murry hype. He just seemed like he had potential because of how ****ty our PG platoon is. I still like Tyler though and would like to develop both he and Hardaway Jr. Unfortunately, neither is good enough to help us meaningful in the short term. The only thing we can do at this point is trade Melo and start the rebuilding process.

Papabear Says

That will mean 10 years on the dark side. When have we ever rebuilt a team. I would wait and see if Melo can talk a super star to play with him in New York.

I guess you haven't learned yet that trying to build a team that way, really doesn't work... there are a couple of exceptions to the rule.. but lebron is miami and we don't have a legit super star here,so how can we have melo talk another superstar into coming here when we don't have one in the first place..

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Vmart wrote:It's official Shump is a Chump and needs to be dumped. I no longer think Shump is a viable option. I'll take a second rounder for him today, tomorrow and the next day.

I wouldn't mind seeing him traded as well, but second rounders are pretty much worthless. Who's the best non-European to come out of the second round? I can think of any really good players whatsoever. Second round picks at best turn into average players. I'd rather get another player for shump than 1 second round pick. I'd do it for two second rounders, but one just isn't enough.

Rashard Lewis (all-star), Manu Ginobli (perennial all-star; Argentinian not European so he counts), Michael Redd (perennial all-star), Gilbert Arenas (perennial all-star), Carlos Boozer (all-star)....the list is pretty lengthy.

Most of those players are good but not great, what I'm saying is that in the second round it's very unlikely you get a very good player. None of those guys are HOF besides maybe Manu. When I said no Europeans I meant Manu, ironic he's not even European.

There is a stat about guys taken after 15 or 17 in the nba draft in regards to their career. The percentage that go on to play in the nba more than three years is very low. The stat was shocking. I love the draft and always look for sleepers.

http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

Aha, the numbers back up my theory very nicely. Like I said you're lucky to find any kind of consistent contributor in the second round.

Dagger wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Dagger wrote:

Vmart wrote:It's official Shump is a Chump and needs to be dumped. I no longer think Shump is a viable option. I'll take a second rounder for him today, tomorrow and the next day.

I wouldn't mind seeing him traded as well, but second rounders are pretty much worthless. Who's the best non-European to come out of the second round? I can think of any really good players whatsoever. Second round picks at best turn into average players. I'd rather get another player for shump than 1 second round pick. I'd do it for two second rounders, but one just isn't enough.

Rashard Lewis (all-star), Manu Ginobli (perennial all-star; Argentinian not European so he counts), Michael Redd (perennial all-star), Gilbert Arenas (perennial all-star), Carlos Boozer (all-star)....the list is pretty lengthy.

Most of those players are good but not great, what I'm saying is that in the second round it's very unlikely you get a very good player. None of those guys are HOF besides maybe Manu. When I said no Europeans I meant Manu, ironic he's not even European.

The same can be said about the 1st round. The fact is that very few all-stars materialize from the draft and even fewer become perennial all-stars. 4 of the 5 guys I mentioned made multiple all-star appearances and I don't think that is anything to scoff at. However rare an occurrence, if guys like that are available in the 2nd round, we need to do our homework because that kind of talent isn't something we could pass up given our situation.

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Crawford is speaking now. I remember people on this board called him Crawfall. Now he is doing just fine. Seem when we chase good players out of town they do better. Melo don't need this and it probably won't get better next season. These young players we have like Murray just seems ok but I do not see him ever being a starter. If something don't happen fast all I can see is dark days ahead. I just can't see Felton as a starting point guard.

Yeah, I'm already over the Murry hype. He just seemed like he had potential because of how ****ty our PG platoon is. I still like Tyler though and would like to develop both he and Hardaway Jr. Unfortunately, neither is good enough to help us meaningful in the short term. The only thing we can do at this point is trade Melo and start the rebuilding process.

Papabear Says

That will mean 10 years on the dark side. When have we ever rebuilt a team. I would wait and see if Melo can talk a super star to play with him in New York.

I guess you haven't learned yet that trying to build a team that way, really doesn't work... there are a couple of exceptions to the rule.. but lebron is miami and we don't have a legit super star here,so how can we have melo talk another superstar into coming here when we don't have one in the first place..

We do and it's Melo. As everyone know you have a hate for Melo beyond basketball and bro thats your sick problem.In over 50 years as a fan I never saw anything like that or you. All of the NBA stars love Melo. Do you trust Dolan to rebuild this team from the ground up? Do you trust Dolan to bring in a GM or head coach to run this team without his intervention? Hell no!! So stop your fake suggestions and get real. We need Melo and he will take less money next season. Melo will be here so get used to it. Felton needs to go cause he is not an elite point guard. Shump must go because he is a poor shooting guard and Chandler must go because he is a fake. Melo is our best rebounder. I refuse to go back to the dark ages and thats what you want this team to do so you can relax under your bridge.

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Crawford is speaking now. I remember people on this board called him Crawfall. Now he is doing just fine. Seem when we chase good players out of town they do better. Melo don't need this and it probably won't get better next season. These young players we have like Murray just seems ok but I do not see him ever being a starter. If something don't happen fast all I can see is dark days ahead. I just can't see Felton as a starting point guard.

Yeah, I'm already over the Murry hype. He just seemed like he had potential because of how ****ty our PG platoon is. I still like Tyler though and would like to develop both he and Hardaway Jr. Unfortunately, neither is good enough to help us meaningful in the short term. The only thing we can do at this point is trade Melo and start the rebuilding process.

Papabear Says

That will mean 10 years on the dark side. When have we ever rebuilt a team. I would wait and see if Melo can talk a super star to play with him in New York.

I guess you haven't learned yet that trying to build a team that way, really doesn't work... there are a couple of exceptions to the rule.. but lebron is miami and we don't have a legit super star here,so how can we have melo talk another superstar into coming here when we don't have one in the first place..

Papabear Says

We do and it's Melo. As everyone know you have a hate for Melo beyond basketball and bro thats your sick problem.In over 50 years as a fan I never saw anything like that or you. All of the NBA stars love Melo. Do you trust Dolan to rebuild this team from the ground up? Do you trust Dolan to bring in a GM or head coach to run this team without his intervention? Hell no!! So stop your fake suggestions and get real. We need Melo and he will take less money next season. Melo will be here so get used to it. Felton needs to go cause he is not an elite point guard. Shump must go because he is a poor shooting guard and Chandler must go because he is a fake. Melo is our best rebounder. I refuse to go back to the dark ages and thats what you want this team to do so you can relax under your bridge.

sure all of the nba stars love melo as long as they don't have to play with him.. which is why they don't....

As far as dolan, I don't trust dolan to do anything, the knicks will have to win in spite of dolan, but that will take a group of talented, high character players.... something we don't have.. so keeping melo will just continue years of futility and this circus we have right now.. let him be someone else problem.. high dollar problem...

As everyone know you have a hate for Melo beyond basketball

everyone? no that is the crap you spew.. i hate carmelo the basketball player. but is it fair to say you have a love for him beyond basketball?

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Crawford is speaking now. I remember people on this board called him Crawfall. Now he is doing just fine. Seem when we chase good players out of town they do better. Melo don't need this and it probably won't get better next season. These young players we have like Murray just seems ok but I do not see him ever being a starter. If something don't happen fast all I can see is dark days ahead. I just can't see Felton as a starting point guard.

Yeah, I'm already over the Murry hype. He just seemed like he had potential because of how ****ty our PG platoon is. I still like Tyler though and would like to develop both he and Hardaway Jr. Unfortunately, neither is good enough to help us meaningful in the short term. The only thing we can do at this point is trade Melo and start the rebuilding process.

Papabear Says

That will mean 10 years on the dark side. When have we ever rebuilt a team. I would wait and see if Melo can talk a super star to play with him in New York.

I guess you haven't learned yet that trying to build a team that way, really doesn't work... there are a couple of exceptions to the rule.. but lebron is miami and we don't have a legit super star here,so how can we have melo talk another superstar into coming here when we don't have one in the first place..

Papabear Says

We do and it's Melo. As everyone know you have a hate for Melo beyond basketball and bro thats your sick problem.In over 50 years as a fan I never saw anything like that or you. All of the NBA stars love Melo. Do you trust Dolan to rebuild this team from the ground up? Do you trust Dolan to bring in a GM or head coach to run this team without his intervention? Hell no!! So stop your fake suggestions and get real. We need Melo and he will take less money next season. Melo will be here so get used to it. Felton needs to go cause he is not an elite point guard. Shump must go because he is a poor shooting guard and Chandler must go because he is a fake. Melo is our best rebounder. I refuse to go back to the dark ages and thats what you want this team to do so you can relax under your bridge.

I do find it odd where your loyalty lies, the guys who instinctively play defense...you want them gone, although I agree with Felton, but not because he isnt elite....only chris paul is elite.

This team made a grave mistake..they underestimated what got them their 54 win season...it was much more than just "Melo at the 4".

The brains and willingness to go above and beyond are gone, and the team gas 100% given up on playing defense.

They only want to score, and that was their biggest acquisition over the summer...a scorer, and not a good one at that.

BTW when a team is 10 games under .500 it usually cant get much darker than that, and that is with Melo actually playing a league high minutes on the team.

This team is terrible, and yes Melo is a reason why, the players are talking, they really dont enjoy playing with him, who would if they know they arent allowed to shoot the ball.

You're ragging on Shump but the kid is actually shooting over 40% from three and almost 50% from the field this month.

But his game is defense, not offense...anyone can score if give alot of shots....a non scorer like Shump proved that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/sports/basketball/a-monster-of-the-dunk-shows-finesse-as-a-playmaker.html?ref=sports