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Indiana Pacers vs NewYork Knicks Game Thread
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smackeddog
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1/16/2014  2:29 PM
sealy wrote:
Dagger wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
playa2 wrote:What will probably take place tonight is Knicks will try and bring Hibbert out of the paint with front court jump shooter. Vogel will counter with his PF going out to defend , so Woody must counteract that move by playing Amare and Bargs when Hibbert is on the court. WE SHALL SEE !

something tells me its gonna be the same story as last game. woodson.....i will play chandler because he's all team defense and when he's unable to stop hibbert... i will play him some more. instead of going with my advantage against them... a 7 footer who can shoot the 3 ball and no one other than hibbert with the length to stop it.

Woody will play Bargs against Hibbert because Melo will tell him to, Melo hates having Hibbert's fat ass clogging up the paint and molesting him every time he tries to drive, while the agenda-driven refs swallow their whistles. Hibbert's magical "verticality" defense that allows him to play with a different set of rules than everyone else will have to be overcome somehow.

The BS term, which was never used before last year's playoffs, is just so irritating and I agree Melo will push Woody hard to utilize this scheme for him to play bully ball.

Don't forget though, George and/or West are no slouches on the D end.

Would be a huge win and I think the Knicks need to spread the floor well and hit their open outside shots to have a shot. And hopefully Shump starts to recognize he has the clear ability to drive the ball.

If JR gets to play, I'm curious to see if Lance gets in his head before halftime.

Yeah, that Hibbert 'verticality' law is so ridiculous, and it's ridiculous listening to people trying to justify it- the playoffs started and suddenly the game was called completely differently to benefit one player. Not only does the verticality rule not seem to apply to any other player (aside from the occasional token gesture), Hibbert doesn't even go straight up! His idea of vertical is to lean forward, wack the player with both arms while jumping forwards or backwards.

Just beat these Pacers!

AUTOADVERT
smackeddog
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1/16/2014  2:30 PM
Jr is playing according to Woody, so it'll be interesting to see if he tries to redeem himself after the playoff abomination. Same goes for Tyson, who ironically is in the same weakened state!
knicks1248
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1/16/2014  2:34 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
playa2 wrote:What will probably take place tonight is Knicks will try and bring Hibbert out of the paint with front court jump shooter. Vogel will counter with his PF going out to defend , so Woody must counteract that move by playing Amare and Bargs when Hibbert is on the court. WE SHALL SEE !

something tells me its gonna be the same story as last game. woodson.....i will play chandler because he's all team defense and when he's unable to stop hibbert... i will play him some more. instead of going with my advantage against them... a 7 footer who can shoot the 3 ball and no one other than hibbert with the length to stop it.

Bank on it.

Indiana 98
Knicks 88

knicks by 6

ES
knicks1248
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1/16/2014  2:40 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
playa2 wrote:What will probably take place tonight is Knicks will try and bring Hibbert out of the paint with front court jump shooter. Vogel will counter with his PF going out to defend , so Woody must counteract that move by playing Amare and Bargs when Hibbert is on the court. WE SHALL SEE !

paul geogre has been the real problem, not really hibert

question.. who is a given with the pacer's talent and who is the pivotal player?
paul george is the given.
but inspite of all his talent, if hibbert was to not play today, they would lose this game.
this is why hibbert is the real problem. let paul score, we can outscore them if they do not have hibbert's defense in the paint.

hibbert defense in the paint??? were jump shooting team, we hardly ever go into the paint, which is why most of the games are close..they defend the perimeter pretty well, what they don't do well is defend ball movement because they are always swarming

ES
Cartman718
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1/16/2014  2:44 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
playa2 wrote:What will probably take place tonight is Knicks will try and bring Hibbert out of the paint with front court jump shooter. Vogel will counter with his PF going out to defend , so Woody must counteract that move by playing Amare and Bargs when Hibbert is on the court. WE SHALL SEE !

paul geogre has been the real problem, not really hibert

question.. who is a given with the pacer's talent and who is the pivotal player?
paul george is the given.
but inspite of all his talent, if hibbert was to not play today, they would lose this game.
this is why hibbert is the real problem. let paul score, we can outscore them if they do not have hibbert's defense in the paint.

hibbert defense in the paint??? were jump shooting team, we hardly ever go into the paint, which is why most of the games are close..they defend the perimeter pretty well, what they don't do well is defend ball movement because they are always swarming

against the nba champs who's only weakness is interior defense, the knicks had 50+ points in the paint just a few days ago. What jump shooting team? Against the pacers though, we need to start as a jump shooting team, first shot in my opinion should be a bargs 3 pointer. that'll force hibbert to go out which will open the paint.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
smackeddog
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1/16/2014  2:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2014  3:14 PM
It'll be interesting to see how Shump plays, after he got blamed for the Pacers loss when he grazed Paul Georges elbow with three skin cells of his finger tip.

Also haven't forgotten their coach mocking Woody during the Heat series to try and deflect criticism from his own coaching blunders- what an d*** move!

I want this win very badly!

Cartman718
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1/16/2014  2:53 PM
smackeddog wrote:It'll be interesting to see how Shump plays, after he got blamed for the Pacers loss when he grazed Paul Georges elbow with there skin cells of his finger tip.

Also haven't forgotten their coach mocking Woody during the Heat series to try and deflect criticism from his own coaching blunders- what an d*** move!

I want this win very badly!

lmao @ skin cells of his finger-tip

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
jrodmc
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1/16/2014  3:03 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Miami Heat are pretend contenders

dk7th wrote:i look forward to seeing how good the knicks are as they play against a real contender.

The Knicks are not that good. The season record validates that.

We plays 'em one at a time.

we lost to them on a BS call, in the middle of a 9 game losing streak..

we can beat this team if we play up to our talent..


We didn't have two starters; they were at pretty much full strength.

Bargs may be left open all night, but can he hit actually hit few 3's in a row and cause real damage? 1 of 6 from three last time out.
THJr is 1/3 of a season older and wiser. Lots of highlights in the can already. Like that 4 point play, son!
Shump is going to do more than 4 pts and minimal collateral damage. Bank it!
I see your Beno and raise you a Felton.
Hello Lance, this is Toure and his 6 fouls to give.
Melo is Melo.

JR the chippy wildcard.

Play the game!

tkf
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1/16/2014  3:10 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Miami Heat are pretend contenders

dk7th wrote:i look forward to seeing how good the knicks are as they play against a real contender.

The Knicks are not that good. The season record validates that.

We plays 'em one at a time.

we lost to them on a BS call, in the middle of a 9 game losing streak..

we can beat this team if we play up to our talent..

THE PROBLEM is, we for the most part are playing up to our talent.. hence the record...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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1/16/2014  3:19 PM
tkf wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Miami Heat are pretend contenders

dk7th wrote:i look forward to seeing how good the knicks are as they play against a real contender.

The Knicks are not that good. The season record validates that.

We plays 'em one at a time.

we lost to them on a BS call, in the middle of a 9 game losing streak..

we can beat this team if we play up to our talent..

THE PROBLEM is, we for the most part are playing up to our talent.. hence the record...

agree... tells you how bad the supporting cast is right now as Melo has never had a losing season in the NBA. Good call.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Travla
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1/16/2014  3:27 PM
They should pick and pop for those 15 footers with Bargs all night long. Use Bargs as a decoy and flash Amare and others to the rim after Hibbert decides to go out and defend.
https://www.youtube.com/user/RPreston01/videos
knicks1248
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1/16/2014  3:45 PM
tkf wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
misterearl wrote:Miami Heat are pretend contenders

dk7th wrote:i look forward to seeing how good the knicks are as they play against a real contender.

The Knicks are not that good. The season record validates that.

We plays 'em one at a time.

we lost to them on a BS call, in the middle of a 9 game losing streak..

we can beat this team if we play up to our talent..

THE PROBLEM is, we for the most part are playing up to our talent.. hence the record...

really, I don't buy that for a minute, because the knicks problem isn't talent, it has way more to do with IQ, and lack of leadership, bad coaching, a bad apples

ES
dk7th
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1/16/2014  5:08 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
playa2 wrote:What will probably take place tonight is Knicks will try and bring Hibbert out of the paint with front court jump shooter. Vogel will counter with his PF going out to defend , so Woody must counteract that move by playing Amare and Bargs when Hibbert is on the court. WE SHALL SEE !

paul geogre has been the real problem, not really hibert

question.. who is a given with the pacer's talent and who is the pivotal player?
paul george is the given.
but inspite of all his talent, if hibbert was to not play today, they would lose this game.
this is why hibbert is the real problem. let paul score, we can outscore them if they do not have hibbert's defense in the paint.

knicks don't really drive or post up so theoretically not having hibbert would not be such a big deal in my opinion. and while we're at it the knicks are not too hot on fast breaking either.

but paul george? he is an elite two-way player with a great midrange game and is a playmaker. he will be a headache for anyone.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
yellowboy90
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1/16/2014  5:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/16/2014  5:19 PM
Indiana's Three-Step Plan to Contain Carmelo Anthony
By
Chris Herring
Updated Jan. 15, 2014 9:43 p.m. ET

Roy Hibbert and the Pacers often invite Carmelo Anthony to try his luck at the rim. AP

INDIANAPOLIS—It's no secret that the Knicks have had fits trying to beat the Indiana Pacers in recent years. That much is clear going into Thursday night's game, one in which the Knicks are trying to avoid a seventh straight defeat in Indianapolis.

To do that, the Knicks will finally have to solve the Pacers' defense, which consistently neutralizes superstar Carmelo Anthony in a way that no other team in the NBA can. Including last season's playoffs, the Pacers have held Anthony under 40% shooting seven times in 13 games since 2011-12.

How do they do it? Here's a closer look.

They force Anthony to work harder on defense than he's used to. Strange as it may sound, the Pacers' offense plays a significant role in limiting Anthony's scoring. Of the 79 games he played last season, Anthony was forced to defend a season-high seven post-up plays in a game three times, according to Synergy Sports. All three came against the Pacers, and Anthony shot under 40% every time.

Besides potentially drawing Anthony into foul trouble, Indiana believes it can wear him down by making him guard a more physical player for long stretches. "If he's on someone like David West, we're gonna call plays for David to make Melo exert energy on both ends, and not just save it for offense," said Brian Shaw, who served as a Pacers assistant coach last season before taking over the Denver Nuggets.

They create a mirage at the basket. This might sound even stranger: The top-ranked Pacers defense appears completely content to let Anthony drive into the lane. And Anthony, as one of the game's top scorers, is always happy to do so. In fact, he has averaged more shots at the rim against Indiana in the past three seasons than against any other team. But, much like trying to win a toy out of an amusement-park claw machine, trying to score at the rim against Indiana is often an illusion.

The Pacers essentially want Anthony to get a step on defender Paul George so he can advance to the basket and face the boss: Roy Hibbert, Indiana's 7-foot-2-inch tree of a center.

"They invite you to go at the big fella," said ex-Knicks guard Jason Kidd, as New York was being dispatched last postseason.

"You have to be very disciplined and have a very high IQ to be able to execute against a system like that, because Hibbert does a great job of contesting without fouling," said Miami Heat coach Eric Spoelstra, whose team squeaked past Indiana in seven games to reach the NBA Finals last season.

The Knicks might have fared better by declining Indiana's invitations to the paint. They learned that the hard way at a critical juncture late in Game 6, when Hibbert produced an epic block at the rim on an Anthony dunk attempt.

That play aside, Anthony struggled mightily, both in shooting (9-for-27 at the rim against Hibbert last postseason) and earning foul calls against Hibbert. In fact, Anthony—the NBA's only wing player in recent memory to log 50 or more offensive fouls in a season multiple times—often finds himself being blamed for the contact between himself and Hibbert.

They seal off his other options. Most NBA teams can't fully contain Anthony without using an occasional double-team. Using that second defender can be risky, and that Anthony has exploited the strategy better than anyone this season. But double-teaming is a gamble the disciplined Pacers seldom have to make.

Indiana's ability to hold its man-to-man assignments—the Pacers used double-teams less frequently than any team in basketball last season, according to Synergy—makes it difficult for opposing players to get open looks along the perimeter.

This season, the Pacers have allowed the fewest three-point attempts of any team and held opponents to an NBA-worst 32.6% from behind the line. That stifling perimeter defense throws an enormous wrench into Anthony's playmaking ability, which works best when he's able to make an overaggressive help defender pay by finding an open teammate with a pass.

The Knicks are scoring a league-best 1.46 points per play and own an NBA-high 71.1% effective-field-goal rate when Anthony passes out of a double-team and finds a spot-up shooter, according to Synergy. But it's telling, both about Anthony's score-first mind-set as well as Indiana's defensive principles, that Anthony has been held to one assist or less in seven of his 13 games against Indiana since 2011-12.

Moreover, his low 9.3% assist rate last postseason—which suggested he was trying to do too much of the scoring himself—was troubling. According to Basketball-Reference, it has been 30 years since a title-winning club's top scorer posted a playoff-assist rate of less than 10%.

Whatever the case may be, one thing is certain: The Pacers won't make it easy for Anthony and the Knicks.

yellowboy90
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1/16/2014  5:30 PM
Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ 3h

Asked Vogel which lineup -- Bargnani at C or Tyson at C -- is tougher on his defense. He suggested the Bargnani matchup makes them work more
Collapse

Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ 3h

Knicks are shooting 84.6% (22-of-26) at the rim w/ Melo-Bargnani at the 4/5 over the past 10 games. Getting higher % of looks from rim, too.

Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ 3h

Knicks have been dominant w/ Melo-Bargnani lineups in past 10 gms: 122 pts per 100 plays on O; allowing 87 pts per 100 plays on D in 30 mins

GustavBahler
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1/16/2014  6:48 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Indiana's Three-Step Plan to Contain Carmelo Anthony
By
Chris Herring
Updated Jan. 15, 2014 9:43 p.m. ET

Roy Hibbert and the Pacers often invite Carmelo Anthony to try his luck at the rim. AP

INDIANAPOLIS—It's no secret that the Knicks have had fits trying to beat the Indiana Pacers in recent years. That much is clear going into Thursday night's game, one in which the Knicks are trying to avoid a seventh straight defeat in Indianapolis.

To do that, the Knicks will finally have to solve the Pacers' defense, which consistently neutralizes superstar Carmelo Anthony in a way that no other team in the NBA can. Including last season's playoffs, the Pacers have held Anthony under 40% shooting seven times in 13 games since 2011-12.

How do they do it? Here's a closer look.

They force Anthony to work harder on defense than he's used to. Strange as it may sound, the Pacers' offense plays a significant role in limiting Anthony's scoring. Of the 79 games he played last season, Anthony was forced to defend a season-high seven post-up plays in a game three times, according to Synergy Sports. All three came against the Pacers, and Anthony shot under 40% every time.

Besides potentially drawing Anthony into foul trouble, Indiana believes it can wear him down by making him guard a more physical player for long stretches. "If he's on someone like David West, we're gonna call plays for David to make Melo exert energy on both ends, and not just save it for offense," said Brian Shaw, who served as a Pacers assistant coach last season before taking over the Denver Nuggets.

They create a mirage at the basket. This might sound even stranger: The top-ranked Pacers defense appears completely content to let Anthony drive into the lane. And Anthony, as one of the game's top scorers, is always happy to do so. In fact, he has averaged more shots at the rim against Indiana in the past three seasons than against any other team. But, much like trying to win a toy out of an amusement-park claw machine, trying to score at the rim against Indiana is often an illusion.

The Pacers essentially want Anthony to get a step on defender Paul George so he can advance to the basket and face the boss: Roy Hibbert, Indiana's 7-foot-2-inch tree of a center.

"They invite you to go at the big fella," said ex-Knicks guard Jason Kidd, as New York was being dispatched last postseason.

"You have to be very disciplined and have a very high IQ to be able to execute against a system like that, because Hibbert does a great job of contesting without fouling," said Miami Heat coach Eric Spoelstra, whose team squeaked past Indiana in seven games to reach the NBA Finals last season.

The Knicks might have fared better by declining Indiana's invitations to the paint. They learned that the hard way at a critical juncture late in Game 6, when Hibbert produced an epic block at the rim on an Anthony dunk attempt.

That play aside, Anthony struggled mightily, both in shooting (9-for-27 at the rim against Hibbert last postseason) and earning foul calls against Hibbert. In fact, Anthony—the NBA's only wing player in recent memory to log 50 or more offensive fouls in a season multiple times—often finds himself being blamed for the contact between himself and Hibbert.

They seal off his other options. Most NBA teams can't fully contain Anthony without using an occasional double-team. Using that second defender can be risky, and that Anthony has exploited the strategy better than anyone this season. But double-teaming is a gamble the disciplined Pacers seldom have to make.

Indiana's ability to hold its man-to-man assignments—the Pacers used double-teams less frequently than any team in basketball last season, according to Synergy—makes it difficult for opposing players to get open looks along the perimeter.

This season, the Pacers have allowed the fewest three-point attempts of any team and held opponents to an NBA-worst 32.6% from behind the line. That stifling perimeter defense throws an enormous wrench into Anthony's playmaking ability, which works best when he's able to make an overaggressive help defender pay by finding an open teammate with a pass.

The Knicks are scoring a league-best 1.46 points per play and own an NBA-high 71.1% effective-field-goal rate when Anthony passes out of a double-team and finds a spot-up shooter, according to Synergy. But it's telling, both about Anthony's score-first mind-set as well as Indiana's defensive principles, that Anthony has been held to one assist or less in seven of his 13 games against Indiana since 2011-12.

Moreover, his low 9.3% assist rate last postseason—which suggested he was trying to do too much of the scoring himself—was troubling. According to Basketball-Reference, it has been 30 years since a title-winning club's top scorer posted a playoff-assist rate of less than 10%.

Whatever the case may be, one thing is certain: The Pacers won't make it easy for Anthony and the Knicks.

Hibbert has a framed picture of that time he stuffed Melo in last years playoffs in his man cave, would like to see Melo getting a little payback. Not to the point where it stagnates the offense. Hopefully our bigs can draw Hibbert out and make it harder for him to get back before Melo gets to the rim. Stat/Tyson/bargs can drain a jumper now, although stat looked a little rusty last night. Been doing most of his work in the paint which is great. Going to have a hard time against this D which is why that jumper could come in handy if he's on.

CrushAlot
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1/16/2014  6:55 PM
Hahn just said the Knicks lost the series last spring because they lost the battle at the center position.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TeamBall
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1/16/2014  7:00 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Hahn just said the Knicks lost the series last spring because they lost the battle at the center position.

Well then we're gonna lose again because Tysons not beating Hibbert
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
ToddTT
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1/16/2014  7:09 PM
No idea at all what to expect tonight.

I really hope we come out strong. I have a feeling the first quarter will be critical.

Clean
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1/16/2014  7:18 PM
Bargs should play Hibbert, he is a better man defender than Chandler.
Indiana Pacers vs NewYork Knicks Game Thread

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