tkf wrote:Oh BTW nixluva... what happened to Bargs pulling Hibbert away from the basket...

and please don't blame woodson. bargs hasn't dragged anyone away from the basket all season..

um when was bargs playing against hibbert??? WOODY put Bargs on West all night. WOODY put Chandler on Hibbert. Playing the big lineup against the pacers is not going to work. If WOODY doesn't get that, is that the players' problem??? If WOODY doesn't understand that even with both Chandler and Hibbert healthy, Hibbert is the better 2 way player.... that's now a hit on Bargs...??

At least if you look at Bargs v/s Hibbert, Bargs has the upper hand offensively. Do you really think Chandler is better than Hibbert in any facet of the game other than tap-backs? Bargs would have stretched and spaced the floor for us if he was given the chance. It's not Bargs' fault that WOODY didn't press his advantage. Coach is dumber and more stubborn than a mofo. Why play the Pacers' game? Their game is paint protection on defense, so give the green light to the 7 footer who can unclog the paint for us. It is really that simple and this dumb coach doesn't get it. Sadly, neither do you.

I think a play that was emblematic of their night was when Melo was under the rim and all 5 yellow shirts were in the paint with him, and all 4 of Melo's teammates (bargs included) were out at the arc. Melo was trying to pass to one of them but he was too well defended, and none of them came into help. They just stood there like statues watching him try to pass the ball instead of moving in, cutting to the rim. D leaguers would have known that at least one of them should have tried to bail him out.

Prigs might be back for the next game and maybe he brings some cohesion back as well. I would try starting him over Felton if things stay in the muck and see what happens. Id also look into trading Tyson for a PG who is better than anyone on the current roster. I know you aren't supposed to trade big for small, but its at a point where Tyson healthy and contributing is the exception to the rule. Its always "when Tyson gets healthy". I know I've said it. Problem is he never is. Might get back to DPOY after being traded but thats not the point, its what he's doing here, which hasn't been much since his DPOY season.

gunsnewing wrote:Tyson is making $14mil per. Benching him would be a HUGE hit to his ego

you mean he cannot adjust like amare.

another important stat that has not been mentioned: when melo gets 4 or more assists the knicks win games. anything less and they lose. kenny smith poo-pooed the idea in the pregame. meanwhile he also said that melo needs to make a decision within three seconds. barkley said he agreed with both notions, implying that they were not mutually exclusive. he also said melo does not make anyone around him better.

melo got one assist and the knicks lost. so it goes

smackeddog wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:good litmus test game for the knicks. this puts the knicks situation in some real perspective. 15-24

the pacers have a great team. must be fun to be a pacers fan with years of relevance and contending to look forward to. granger buying in.

wow.

kudos to donnie walsh, larry bird, frank vogel for creating a winning culture.

love him or hate him the knicks have got to get rid of carmelo anthony some way somehow... 5 weeks away and maybe we will see the end of the melo era.
bye-bye melo.

just a huge mistake and waste of time and money. time to press the reset button.

EXACTLY.. you know what dk I was scolded on realgm for wanting a team full of guys who were not superstars but very good players... now those same people are talking about not having enough "good guys" on this team.. LOL... Great teams win, great players make great teams.. we certainly can learn a lesson from the pacers.

I agree, time to hit the reset button.. now!! bye melo!!

To be fair, according to someones sig, you also said this on realgm:

TKF wrote:
carmelo doesn't exist to me.. really bro... I have given him the TKF amnesty. I won't refer to him, acknowledge him or discuss him.....

and on realgm, I don't talk about him... so whats the problem..

dk7th wrote:i agree that woodson had no answer to the adjustments vogel made at the 8 minute mark in the game. that's why the tbs team said at the end of the game that if the knicks could bottle what they did in the first 8 minutes they would be in good shape. alas, woodson does not provide answers, it seems.

another important stat that has not been mentioned: when melo gets 4 or more assists the knicks win games. anything less and they lose. kenny smith poo-pooed the idea in the pregame. meanwhile he also said that melo needs to make a decision within three seconds. barkley said he agreed with both notions, implying that they were not mutually exclusive. he also said melo does not make anyone around him better.

melo got one assist and the knicks lost. so it goes

while I don't think that woodson is a good coach at all, he is now taking a bit too much blame.. last year and the year before, it was all about woody and Grunny... how woodson preaches defense, holds people accountable, how he was the perfect coach for carmelo and jr AND THIS BUNCH... now every loss seems to be his fault... I think that is turning a blind eye to the real problem... this is a bad collection of players...

I mean yea it would be nice if the knicks could bottle the good moments, but that goes for all teams that are not playing well... they have stretches whey they look good, the problem is, they never can maintain that on a consistent basis.. which is why they usually end up with bad records.

If you look at the pacers, they are one of if not the best 3rd qtr team in the NBA, they usually get off to slow starts, as does paul george, not sure it is slow as in playing bad, but slow as in feeling out the pace and opponent.... carmelo came out shooting hot and the knicks were still down... at that point we knew they were in trouble, because the pacers get better as the game goes along.. I watch a lot of pacers games, so I sensed this could and would happen... vogel has the pieces to adjust with... woodson doesn't have many answers, and not trying to make excuses for woodson, I think it is a combination of bad coaching and lack of necessary resources..

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:Oh BTW nixluva... what happened to Bargs pulling Hibbert away from the basket...

and please don't blame woodson. bargs hasn't dragged anyone away from the basket all season..

um when was bargs playing against hibbert??? WOODY put Bargs on West all night. WOODY put Chandler on Hibbert. Playing the big lineup against the pacers is not going to work. If WOODY doesn't get that, is that the players' problem??? If WOODY doesn't understand that even with both Chandler and Hibbert healthy, Hibbert is the better 2 way player.... that's now a hit on Bargs...??

At least if you look at Bargs v/s Hibbert, Bargs has the upper hand offensively. Do you really think Chandler is better than Hibbert in any facet of the game other than tap-backs? Bargs would have stretched and spaced the floor for us if he was given the chance. It's not Bargs' fault that WOODY didn't press his advantage. Coach is dumber and more stubborn than a mofo. Why play the Pacers' game? Their game is paint protection on defense, so give the green light to the 7 footer who can unclog the paint for us. It is really that simple and this dumb coach doesn't get it. Sadly, neither do you.

tkf....?

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:i agree that woodson had no answer to the adjustments vogel made at the 8 minute mark in the game. that's why the tbs team said at the end of the game that if the knicks could bottle what they did in the first 8 minutes they would be in good shape. alas, woodson does not provide answers, it seems.

another important stat that has not been mentioned: when melo gets 4 or more assists the knicks win games. anything less and they lose. kenny smith poo-pooed the idea in the pregame. meanwhile he also said that melo needs to make a decision within three seconds. barkley said he agreed with both notions, implying that they were not mutually exclusive. he also said melo does not make anyone around him better.

melo got one assist and the knicks lost. so it goes

while I don't think that woodson is a good coach at all, he is now taking a bit too much blame.. last year and the year before, it was all about woody and Grunny... how woodson preaches defense, holds people accountable, how he was the perfect coach for carmelo and jr AND THIS BUNCH... now every loss seems to be his fault... I think that is turning a blind eye to the real problem... this is a bad collection of players...

I mean yea it would be nice if the knicks could bottle the good moments, but that goes for all teams that are not playing well... they have stretches whey they look good, the problem is, they never can maintain that on a consistent basis.. which is why they usually end up with bad records.

If you look at the pacers, they are one of if not the best 3rd qtr team in the NBA, they usually get off to slow starts, as does paul george, not sure it is slow as in playing bad, but slow as in feeling out the pace and opponent.... carmelo came out shooting hot and the knicks were still down... at that point we knew they were in trouble, because the pacers get better as the game goes along.. I watch a lot of pacers games, so I sensed this could and would happen... vogel has the pieces to adjust with... woodson doesn't have many answers, and not trying to make excuses for woodson, I think it is a combination of bad coaching and lack of necessary resources..

yes the end of first quarter i said to myself "wow he just scored 18 points and they are still down. what is going on?" well what i see about the pacers is the same thing i see about any good top echelon team: they are utterly opportunistic.

knicks aren't opportunistic. they are very slow. i never see a fast break from them. their interior defense is atrocious.

and it doesn't matter how hot melo is-- if the knicks don't know how to get stops they will lose. i mean indiana scored 117 points and 40 points in the paint. 50% from the field, 43.5% from the 3. stevenson murdered them last night.

as far as woodson getting more than his share of the blame, i suppose that is valid-- because the roster is just so bad and the esprit de corps has got to be super low as well. i think the knicks season was over before it began, to be honest.

do you realize the knicks are going to have to go 22-21 the remainder of the season just reach 37 wins?

Another thing, while carmelo was scoring and posing...putting the three fingers to his head.. his teammates were watching.. not moving, not engaged.. this thing that one guy needs to go ham so the fans can engage in hero worship sickens me.... carmelo was working hard for shots, which is what teams like the heat and pacers will do.. go ahead and shoot, but by the second half, those legs are gone...we will make you work hard for every bucket... in contrast, PG was passing, defending, guys like west, scola, even granger were allowed to get into the flow of the offense.. and stay engaged... by time the second half rolled around, those guys were in a groove, especially george and lance... but as a team, they all were engaged, because they were allowed to, the best players on their team, allowed that to happen..

so it was no surprise that carmelo was going to be defended hard and tired the second half, and that other guys would not have any type of rhythm. is that on woodson? yea, he is part to blame,but again, that part also falls on the players as well.

i mean indiana scored 117 points and 40 points in the paint. 50% from the field, 43.5% from the 3. stevenson murdered them last night.

do you realize the knicks are going to have to go 22-21 the remainder of the season just reach 37 wins?

yikes!!

tkf wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:Oh BTW nixluva... what happened to Bargs pulling Hibbert away from the basket...

and please don't blame woodson. bargs hasn't dragged anyone away from the basket all season..

um when was bargs playing against hibbert??? WOODY put Bargs on West all night. WOODY put Chandler on Hibbert. Playing the big lineup against the pacers is not going to work. If WOODY doesn't get that, is that the players' problem??? If WOODY doesn't understand that even with both Chandler and Hibbert healthy, Hibbert is the better 2 way player.... that's now a hit on Bargs...??

At least if you look at Bargs v/s Hibbert, Bargs has the upper hand offensively. Do you really think Chandler is better than Hibbert in any facet of the game other than tap-backs? Bargs would have stretched and spaced the floor for us if he was given the chance. It's not Bargs' fault that WOODY didn't press his advantage. Coach is dumber and more stubborn than a mofo. Why play the Pacers' game? Their game is paint protection on defense, so give the green light to the 7 footer who can unclog the paint for us. It is really that simple and this dumb coach doesn't get it. Sadly, neither do you.

dude actually I do get it.. you don't. my point was, all of this dragging hibbert out of the lane was rubbish if anything, I said the pacers would put West on Bargs anyway.... but go check my post if you don't believe me...

handler and Hibbert healthy, Hibbert is the better 2 way player.... that's now a hit on Bargs...??

thanks sherlock.. you are making my argument for me.. again, getting bargs and using the argument that he will drag hibbert out of the lane was rubbish.. in the end, bargs has to guard those bigs on the other end.. but as you said yourself.. Hibbert is better than both, so why make the defense for bargnani... is that a hit on bargs? YES IT IS, ESPECIALLY IF YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT HE IS HERE TO BRING HIBBERT AWAY FROM THE HOOP.... It didn't work...

cartman...???

no... you are making my argument for me...so if the starting lineup had been kmart and bargs instead of bargs and chandler, you think hibbert would have been guarding kmart???? dude would have run right past hibbert, or did you not see vogel himself admitting that bargs at C is a bigger matchup problem?

dk7th wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:good litmus test game for the knicks. this puts the knicks situation in some real perspective. 15-24

the pacers have a great team. must be fun to be a pacers fan with years of relevance and contending to look forward to. granger buying in.

wow.

kudos to donnie walsh, larry bird, frank vogel for creating a winning culture.

love him or hate him the knicks have got to get rid of carmelo anthony some way somehow... 5 weeks away and maybe we will see the end of the melo era.
bye-bye melo.

just a huge mistake and waste of time and money. time to press the reset button.

EXACTLY.. you know what dk I was scolded on realgm for wanting a team full of guys who were not superstars but very good players... now those same people are talking about not having enough "good guys" on this team.. LOL... Great teams win, great players make great teams.. we certainly can learn a lesson from the pacers.

I agree, time to hit the reset button.. now!! bye melo!!

So essentially you are heralded as a troll everywhere you go? Nice!

being banned from the knicks realgm forum, where the lunatics are running the asylum, is actually a mark of distinction.

supporting this team gives real meaning to the term "fanatic."