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Elton Brand
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BigSm00th
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4/29/2004  1:28 AM
Is there a realistic chance of getting him?

I guess everything depends on how the Clips fare in the draft, but with them committing money to him and Maggette and the results really not being there, and with QRich being a FA, could they make a semi-rebuilding type trade and deal Brand to his homestate?

Would they go for FWilliams (they desperately need a PG), Sweetney (he and Wilcox compete for PF), Mutumbo & Harrington (cap relief after next season). To me, the Knicks need a guy who can rebound efficiently offensively and defensively, a guy who can block shots so people can't just drive down the lane, and a guy who can score in the post. Brand does all those things, he's an easy 20, 10, and 2 in the EC.

Resign Baker to backup C. Sign a C, try to get Camby or my man Okur or stick with Mohammed.

Try to deal KT to the Bulls for a resigned Jamal Crawford, becuase I think the Knicks will need insurance for Houston.

I think the Knicks would be pretty good:
PG: Marbury, Norris
SG: Houston, Crawford, Anderson
SF: TThomas, Penny, DerMarr (resigned)
PF: Brand, Mohammed
C: Okur, Baker (resigned)
IL: 2nd round draft pick, some summer league guys (maybe try to get Matt Carrol to come back. Excellent shooter from ND was on the tryout team last year. I don't trust Houston's knees).

Marbury and Okur on the pick-n-roll, Houston to stretch the D, Brand posting (and toasting) downlow, Tim Thomas acting like a fugazy on the perimeter, a great 6th man in JCrossover and pretty reliable veteran bench.

Anyway, does anyone think they'll get Brand? I think all of this talk about improving from within by Isiah is a smokescreen, I really don't think he stays put after a whirlwind of moves in three months.

If not Brand, who would you want to target and who would you give up?
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Mac
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4/29/2004  2:20 AM
Clippers have the russian C Ward in Jaric, Maggette had a career year, and Richardson is improving. They are in the running for Kobe and need all the talent they have to have a chance of luring him... Which means Brand, their best player is probably staying.

If Sweetney continue's to improve and the Clippers continue to lose without Bryant on board, then next year:

real gm trade : 1583939

L.A. Clippers trades:
PF Elton Brand (20.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 3.3 apg in 38.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -3.7 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and -2.0 apg

New York trades:
C Nazr Mohammed (7.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.1 minutes)
PF Othella Harrington (4.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.5 apg in 15.6 minutes)
PF Mike Sweetney (4.3 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.8 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +3.7 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and +2.0 apg.

I'd do this trade if I was LAC...
fishmike
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4/29/2004  11:38 AM
there is no trade or chance of a trade that gets Brand straight up. Our only chance is we could move another player like Kurt to Utah for a pick in a 3 way trade that saves LAC a lot of money.

Its not impossible, but its not the most likely scenario. I also we would be foolish to give up on Frank and Sweetney right now. Come next deadline if Frank's value is very high thats the time to do it. We always trade (or try to trade) players when their value is at their lowest and wonder why we get crap back.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Ray15
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4/29/2004  12:10 PM
If Sterling can't lure Kobe, he may go back to his cheap ways. Brand
is not the type of player that sells tickets. He may try to build a
high flying, athletic team built around J-Rich and Maggettie to get
attendence up.

Great point about trading players when their value is at its lowest. BUT if we could bring back an allstar like Brand, I would definitley trade our two bright youngsters.

I would offer Sweetney, Frank Williams, Deke, Othella
for Brand.

They get two youngsters and more cap room at the end of next season to
go after players that would attract fans.

I would love to do this in the offseason but if we have to wait until
midseason when Sweetney is playing good and the Clipps are losing, I
would do it then.
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EnySpree
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4/29/2004  12:25 PM
Posted by Ray15:


I would offer Sweetney, Frank Williams, Deke, Othella
for Brand.
Welcome Ray15,

Now that I look at it Deke and Othella could be very attractive for the Clippers especially if they want to try to totally rebuild. Right now they have no identity.

They would definately want Frank, Mutombo and Othella. That could basically do it.

They already have Wilcox who is a favorite of mine. Wilcox showed alot of signs last season. He could slide into Brands spot easy.

I'd hate to see Frank go but Brand is everything the Knicks need.

He averages 20/10/2 in the West. The East would be a cake walk.
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turtle33
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4/29/2004  3:54 PM
sweets isnt the scorer brand is YET, but i will say i think if he had the minutes he would out rebound brand. actually i will say if sweets was given the 38 minutes per game brand has he WOULD out rebound him without question. factor in the east-west stuff and they might come out even.

dont forget sweets is only averaging 3.5 shot attepmts per game to brands 14 per game. brand also gets an average of 6 points a game from the line, and as we all know freethrows are something that come with time (thanks to the refs). they both have the same fg% so if sweets got more time and was allowed to take more shots he would have be closer to brands 20 ppg.

relax, i'm not saying sweets is as good as brand, but give him some time and he might be better.

sweetney #2 in the nba in offensive rebounds per 48 minutes.
sweetney #7 in the nba in total rebounds per 48 minutes.

some of you dont believe in the "per 48 minute" thing but i strongly believe in it. dont forget as a player gets more time he gets more confidence and "usually" plays better.

anyways back to the point, sweetney should not be traded for brand.
fishmike
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4/29/2004  4:05 PM
I doutb he will ever be better because Brand is a better athlete, but hey.

Brand is a great shotblocker despite being 6'8
Brand is the best offensive rebounder in the NBA
Brand scores 20 a game when he walks on the court
Brand is 25 years old

This guy is just awesome. I love Sweetney but thats mostly because he's our guy, and we havent had a young guy we actually drafted contribute since Greg Anthony and Hubert Davis.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
turtle33
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4/29/2004  4:13 PM
actually brand is the 3rd best offensive rebounder in the nba.

i do agree though he is awsome, i just dont think we should give up sweets AND some for him (especially williams). if it was sweets, deke and thella or something then ok, but not 2 rooks.

we need a centre more than anything on this team.
djsunyc
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4/29/2004  4:22 PM
man, giving up sweets would be HARD but given the fact that brand is ONLY 25, you have to do it. giving up frank AND sweets puts all of our eggs in one basket in terms of trades, so i would hesitate on that one. pulling the frank, deke, othella type deal would only work at the deadline so maybe we wait to see if he is available instead of giving up sweets in a deal before the season.
Mac
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4/29/2004  6:59 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

If not Brand, who would you want to target and who would you give up?

Eddy Curry ... It's very possible for him to have a J O'neal-like emergence within a few seasons... @ 6'11" 285 he's literally a bull down low, and could be unstoppable. That's why NY should trade for him. He's got size and potential.

But... Bulls aren't looking to gain a point guard with their all rookie Hinrich, so FWill isn't attractive to them. The only players I see them trading would be JYD and Pippen ... Player's like Crawford, Curry, Chandler and Robinson won't be moved unless they get a steal of a trade. And they are almost guaranteed to pick high with that record of theirs.
Mac
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4/29/2004  7:02 PM
Here's something interesting:

Originally posted by NY33 from http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?topic=231090

Chicago trades:

SG Jamal Crawford (17.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 35.1 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 22.4 minutes)
SF Scottie Pippen (5.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 17.9 minutes)
SF Eddie Robinson (6.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 20.1 minutes)
PF Antonio Davis (8.8 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 32.1 minutes)

Chicago receives:
SG Michael Finley (18.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.6 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
SF Tim Thomas (14.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -0.4 ppg, -7.0 rpg, and -4.1 apg.

Bulls fill up their squad with solid veteran stars and shed some contracts....they can be free to choose whomever in the draft....h.s. , college, or foreign and have the time to develop him. Get better defensively and become a more mature team. Could be looking really good after a draft that might add Okafor, Smith, or Howard etc.

lineup:
Hinrich
Finley
Tim Thomas
Kurt Thomas
Curry

Dallas trades:
SG Michael Finley (18.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.9 apg in 38.6 minutes)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 34.6 minutes)

Dallas receives:
SG Jamal Crawford (17.3 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.1 apg in 80 games)
PF Antonio Davis (8.8 ppg, 8.4 rpg, 1.7 apg in 80 games)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 76 games)
2004 2nd round pick (from New York)

Change in team outlook: +2.7 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and +1.7 apg.

Dallas gets better on defense with Davis. Keeps the better of the two scoring forwards (Jamison over Walker) adds a young athletic point/shooting guard in Crawford, and a solid veteran off the bench who can score and defend.

lineup:
Nash
Crawford
Jamison
Nowitzki
Davis

bench: Hardaway, Daniels, Howard, Delk, Najera, Bradley, Fortson.....

New York trades:
C Kurt Thomas (11.1 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.9 minutes)
SF Tim Thomas (14.7 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 1.9 apg in 31.6 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (9.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 2.3 apg in 27.6 minutes)
2004 2nd round pick (to Dallas)

New York receives:
PF Tyson Chandler (6.1 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 0.7 apg in 35 games)
SF Scottie Pippen (5.9 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 2.2 apg in 23 games)
SF Eddie Robinson (6.7 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 1.1 apg in 51 games)
PF Antoine Walker (14.0 ppg, 8.3 rpg, 4.5 apg in 82 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.3 ppg, +4.1 rpg, and +2.4 apg.

Knicks get their athletic forward in Chandler (and Robinson) and get a third (or maybe second) option scorer in Walker. Chandler will help their defense and athleticism, Walker will provide consistent scoring and some assists and boards to go with. Pippen's contract has to be swallowed to facilitate, although if he does not retire that becomes a tradeable asset at the deadline.

lineup:
Marbury
Houston
Walker
Chandler
Mohammed

bench: F/A, Pippen, Robinson, Sweetney, Williams, Moochie, Dermar, Baker, Anderson...

TRADE ACCEPTED

Basically NY would give up TThomas, KThomas, AHardaway and 2nd a round pick for Walker and change...
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Elton Brand
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