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BRIGGS
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4/29/2004  11:43 AM
thats how utah picked up high draft picks, because they took on some players from phoenix. Its an attractive proposal--taking on a player who make 4.4mm the other team throws in 3 mm = a future first rounder. If you are building a team, the cost of little over a mm for a 1st round draft choice is attractive. If the cap is around 47mm or so, that would give detroit 18mm to use. If they gave Rasheed a contract of lets say 4 years 40mm that started off a 8.-they would have a huge chunk of money to sign okur--money they wouldnt need. even if you look at the space they have now the cap is supposed to be around 47mm they have near 14mm in space now. If they started rasheed off at 8 they could sign okur to a contract that starts at 6 which would run up to something like 6 years 45mm including the 15% raises. I think thats the market for both guys. IF they needed the extra room, its not asking much for a rebuilding frnahcise to take a 7 footer for one year at a cost of 1.4 mm + they get a first rounder--thats a good deal. If someone comes up and offers okur something like what miami did for odom--then i would let him go i think joe dumars will to.
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fishmike
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4/29/2004  11:52 AM
" If the cap is around 47mm "

And here is the problem with our arguement. If that was the cap you are 100% right. Det will probably sign both.

HOWEVER the current cap is $43.84 million. And while many GMs hoped it would go up to the $45 range, after Stern announced the negative cash position of the NBA most now agree the cap will actually go down.

This leaves the Pistons just about $9-$10 mill to sign BOTH players. Its just not happening, and Det has no #1 to give up, and Pho could care less about a 06 pick from a team thats young and wins 50 games a year.

Pho gave Utah a #1 to take a contract that expires at the end of the year. That #1 was going to be no lower than 16. These are totally seperate situations... sorry, Det is in a bind and they know it. Why do you think everyone agreed they were just renting Sheed for a playoff run?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/29/2004  12:02 PM
i think joe dumars is a smart guy, the foundation to sign both players is there with their cap number of 33mm and possibly as low as 28.5mm. They are going to have 13-18 mm in space when all is said and done, much more than enough. If someone wants to pay Okur 10mm a year--then he's gone. as far as the knicks nothing and Im sure dumars will take care of business right away. im sure its likely done in many ways unless okur gets a dramatic offer.
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Andrew
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4/29/2004  12:12 PM
Remember Briggs that Okur's and Wallaces current salaries will count against the Cap until they are either signed or renounced. So, Detroit is not in that great of shape to sign both if they need to go over the mid level to sign Okur.

33M in signed players + 16M for Wallace + 1M for Okur = 50M in cap usage for the 04/05 season.
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BRIGGS
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4/29/2004  12:28 PM
im sure that raweed would take a 4 year 40mm which would start in the 8mm range. that means whatever the final cap number is subtracted from 8 is where you can start okurs contract. if okur wants something insane-well then they have milicic. im sure detroit isnt dumb. they will have wallace as the number 1 priority and okur as number 2. Once you sign raweed, you can get a picture of what money is there for okur. The option of trading Cambpell +3MM + an 06 1st rounder will entice one of the 3-4 rebuilding teams for sure. You get Cambpell on your team for a year at a cost of 1mm + a first rounder--that is a nice proposal and cost effecient and dumars knows it. A guy like dumars likely knows the parameters of everything involved through the agents already, thats why he opened his mouth. If some team wants to make an outrageous ofer, then its a differents story.

There is a reasonable outside chance that BOTH players are offered max contract by different teams--a very realsitic scenario. Utah could offer okur a max while phoenix could offer raweed a max--whatever way you want to look at it the knicks have almost no shot at raweed --i think we are talking 1-2/100 and 0/100 for okur.
RIP Crushalot😞
CTKnicksfan
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4/29/2004  12:31 PM
Posted by fishmike:

" If the cap is around 47mm "

And here is the problem with our arguement. If that was the cap you are 100% right. Det will probably sign both.

HOWEVER the current cap is $43.84 million. And while many GMs hoped it would go up to the $45 range, after Stern announced the negative cash position of the NBA most now agree the cap will actually go down.

This leaves the Pistons just about $9-$10 mill to sign BOTH players. Its just not happening, and Det has no #1 to give up, and Pho could care less about a 06 pick from a team thats young and wins 50 games a year.

Pho gave Utah a #1 to take a contract that expires at the end of the year. That #1 was going to be no lower than 16. These are totally seperate situations... sorry, Det is in a bind and they know it. Why do you think everyone agreed they were just renting Sheed for a playoff run?

There are a lot of factors to consider here, with the cap, the expansion draft, etc. I think alot will depend on how Det fares in the next few weeks. IF they make it to the ECF or to the NBA finals it will be very hard for them to let sheed walk in order to resign Okur. Larry Brown has basically taken Okur out of his rotation in the playoffs thus far, its no secret he would prefer to resign wallace. Even if they could concievably sign both to long term deals at 7-8mm annually for the next 6 years, would they make that investment? Neither is even the best player on the team, Ben Wallace is and he isn't going anywhere. They would basically be locking up their frontcourt for the next 5 years and I can't see them (Dumars especially) doing that, while 2nd overall pick Darko wastes away on the bench.
Andrew
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4/29/2004  12:39 PM
Well....this all depends on Wallace's asking price as you stated and the willingness to get a team to take on Campbell. I don't agree that it will be that easy to convince a team to do that, but I guess we will see come this summer.

Good discussion.
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fishmike
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4/29/2004  1:09 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

i think joe dumars is a smart guy, the foundation to sign both players is there with their cap number of 33mm and possibly as low as 28.5mm. They are going to have 13-18 mm in space when all is said and done, much more than enough. If someone wants to pay Okur 10mm a year--then he's gone. as far as the knicks nothing and Im sure dumars will take care of business right away. im sure its likely done in many ways unless okur gets a dramatic offer.
again... even if Det gets Cha to take Eldon Cambell or Corlis Williamson that STILL only puts Det $14 mill under the cap. So if they are both willing to sign for about $7 mill each AND Cha agrees to take an older veteran player like Corlis or Elden (they have already said there arent) then the Pistons will have $14 mill assuming the cap doesnt go down (which it has before).

I have no idea where the 13-18mm # is coming from, but all these scenarios for Det are right up there with the "Isiah should get Kobe" ideas.

Nobody is offering Sheed the max, least of all the Suns under new ownership.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/29/2004  1:19 PM
detroit is going to take care of wallace first--anyone with a pea brain can figure that out. Contracts increase at a 15% rate -so they can start wallace off at something like 8mm. whatever number is left lets say its 14 mm gives detroit the ability to give Okur a 6 year 45 MM $ contract--its not hard to figure out. If Okur wants more than that they have milicic. i think its a logical conclusion. Detroits cao number next year is 33mm and can go as low as 28.5 if they needed it. That would give them around 14-15 and upwards of 17-18 under almost any scenario giving away Cambpell.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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4/29/2004  1:55 PM
so they resign Wallace and let Okur walk. Hey, thats what I would do also, but Cha has no reason to do Det any favors. Why take on Cambell's $4 mill when they can outbid Det for Okur and only pay $2-$3 more than they would be paying Cambell? Hows that for peabrain logic?

Clearly if Sheed wants money Det is his best option.

What the Knicks should do is offer him a 6 year deal for the full MLE with the 3rd year being a player option. The 6 years is insurance for him if he gets hurt. The option lets him opt out after 2 years, at which point we could up his salary to $9 mill, so he really wouldnt be losing much by coming here at all (if you could sell him on it)

I dont even want Okur. He just doesnt impress me that much. I would rather use resources to draft someone like Robert Swift.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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