smackeddog wrote:Dolan is our GM- Dolan is not going to fire himself. This is the buffoon who after the past 13 years has come to the conclusion that he needs to be MORE involved. Thats the lessons he took from that. Unbelievable.

Sooner or later, even an idiot like Dolan (a 'titty with no nipple' as a buddy of mine calls him--LMAO) should come to the realization that he needs some pure basketball minds in here to fix the problem. This guy is one of the best out there right now. I believe he's still at ESPN but how stimulating can that job possibly be? A couple of times a year, he's asked to come on TV and explain a trade, give his opinion on the draft, explain how a team could land a free agent, etc. That's a heck of a lot different than making the trades, actually drafting a player(s), or acquiring FAs yourself. Part-time consulting isn't nearly the same thing as being the hands-on architect responsible for rebuilding a team into an eventual winner. Apples and oranges, esp. for a man that's fully capable and has all the requisite knowledge this guy has.

I think this guy would add instant credibility to our organization at the top. Read over this article and tell me he's not the right guy for the job:

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2010/11/post_3.html

And take a good look at these Penn clips --

Clip #1 - look past the stupid caption about him farting -- so dumb he didn't even fart; it was someone in the background clearing his throat. Look at what he's saying a team would need to get back for a star player -- "young players, draft picks & cap space." He's right on the money. You can tell right away he'd understand completely exactly what we'd need back if we were to trade Melo. This is a guy who wouldn't be looking to make Isiah Thomas lateral moves here which only compound a problem and further put off the inevitable task of rebuilding. I'm talking TRULY REBUILDING the right way. I feel he'd make the right deal for Melo to bring back the right type of assets.

Clip #2 - yeah the top 5 of the 2013 draft didn't work out exactly how he said it would, although he was right on the money with picks 2 & 3, right? Plus, even with Alex Len's foot problems (that Penn or nobody else knew at draft time btw -- he developed the stress fracture afterward I believe), ya think Len would've made for a better #1 overall pick for Cleveland over Anthony Bennett? That dude's been brutal so far for the Cavs. The man has a good eye for young talent and how it could fit together with a team's existing talent -- that's what I took away from that clip.

Clip #3 - he's a recognized salary cap guru, right up there with Larry Coon and whoever else. Shows full understanding of how trades and FA acquisitions get consummated and what it takes to get those deals done.

This is by far and away our best option for GM imo. Thing is could we get him to bail on ESPN and then could we get him and Dolan to play nice in the sandbox together? They wouldn't even have to play together!! Just be straight with the fans for once, Jimmy -- tell us this current plan needs to be altered & we need to rebuild it into something MUCH BETTER with no immediate timetable. Then stay the hell outta Penn's way! Enjoy playing with your band -- leave the task of building the Knicks into a winner to a qualified professional. This guy went out and hired all professional musicians for his band -- why can't he adopt the same philosophy for the Knicks' front office? With a sizable contract offer and the fact that it's NYC, the Knicks, the Garden, the Mecca -- there might be enough elements here to entice this young man. To be the eventual architect that turns this team around into a legit championship contender one day---hopefully a perennial contender like the Spurs---that's appealing in itself. Someone's eventually gonna be the guy that gets the job done here -- why couldn't it be Penn? Hopefully, that's what Penn says to himself if we ever offered him the job.. Toughest challenge in the NBA right now with the highest possible reward the sport has to offer: a championship in NY.

Finestrg wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Dolan is our GM- Dolan is not going to fire himself. This is the buffoon who after the past 13 years has come to the conclusion that he needs to be MORE involved. Thats the lessons he took from that. Unbelievable.

Sooner or later, even an idiot like Dolan (a 'titty with no nipple' as a buddy of mine calls him--LMAO) should come to the realization that he needs some pure basketball minds in here to fix the problem. This guy is one of the best out there right now. I believe he's still at ESPN but how stimulating can that job possibly be? A couple of times a year, he's be asked to come on TV and explain a trade, give his opinion on the draft, explain how a team could land a free agent, etc. That's a heck of a lot different than making trades, actually drafting a player(s), or acquiring FAs yourself. Part-time consulting isn't nearly the same thing as being the hands-on architect responsible for rebuilding a team into an eventual winner.

Ha, I like the description. However, I think you're over estimating Dolans ability to learn the right lesson. We trade two unprotected picks for Curry, then end up having our worst season- end up giving Chicago Noah and the opportunity to draft LaMarcus Aldridge. Does Dolan learn anything from that experience? Obviously not because he then went to Denver and traded two unprotected picks (and a tonne of other stuff)for Melo.

Closest he came to turning it over to a bball mind was hiring Walsh, and he just couldn't keep his interfering hands out- had to step in a ruin the Melo trade, then get rid of Walsh because he didn't bow down to him enough. The guy will always blame someone else before he blames himself.

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Dolan is our GM- Dolan is not going to fire himself. This is the buffoon who after the past 13 years has come to the conclusion that he needs to be MORE involved. Thats the lessons he took from that. Unbelievable.

Can you really blame Dolan..He gave the reins to Donnie who brought in MDA and quickly signed Amare..How did that work for us???

Yeah I've been thinking of Donnie while fleshing this out -- obviously, Donnie was wrong on Amar'e. Or 75% wrong--let's put it that way. Amar'e was GREAT here his 1st year. Can't take that away from Donnie...or STAT. But Donnie got some things wrong here -- David Lee should've been retained. The grass ain't always greener and it definitely wasn't regarding David Lee vs. taking on Amar'e. David Lee's one of the best PFs in the game now, while STAT's a shell of what he once was. And the signs we're there -- PHX didn't care to retain him because of his injury problems. We took a chance with Amar'e -- it worked out for 1 year. Downhill ever since. And the follow up move --- the Lee trade for AR/Turiaf/Azubuike was terrible. Even Donnie's 2 big draft picks--Gallinari and Shumpert--can be looked at as questionable moves as well. Donnie was good overall and added credibility but he wasn't the best I've ever seen. Some obvious mistakes were made. Would Penn make these same type of mistakes? Would Penn look to acquire a big-money guy like Amar'e Stoudemire, knowing the injury history and the fact that we couldn't even get his contract fully insured? I don't think so. That's what we need now -- someone who will break it all down and start over from ground zero...

Hey, I don't wanna come on here and sound like a hypocrite -- I liked the Amar'e move at the time and I even saw positives with the Lee trade. I know I'm not the only one here...Turns out both moves were extremely short-sighted and turned around to be the wrong moves.

Maybe the whole Walsh plan was flawed -- maybe we should've bypassed 2010 FA altogether after LeBron chose South Beach. And we should've held onto David Lee, a guy who made great progress as a player in a Knick uniform, perhaps more than any other homegrown player in recent memory.

Hindsight is always 20/20 -- I get that. Tough to jump on Donnie. Can a guy like Tom Penn do it better this time? I think so...WE gotta start with the idea that there won't be any quick fixes this time. Then go from there...Maybe all the Garden renovations buy Jimmy a couple of years. People will still come to see the new Garden, even in the midst of a rebuilding effort. And if Dolan gets hurt in the wallet with attendance during a rebuild -- so be it. They need to come to the realization soon that this probably needs to be done for the greater good. Let's get it right this time!

Its a lot easier to assemble a team with hindsight- If we'd known about Wade, lebron and Bosh, then I doubt there would have been the urgency to clear cap space for that year- we could have kept Crawford and Zach until their contracts expired, wouldn't of had to trade Jordan Hill and a pick (or whatever it was) to Houston.

Putting hindsight aside, Walsh's blunders were drafting Jordan Hill instead of one of the good PGs in the draft (despite us needing a PG), and when it looked like we were about to luck out in FA, instead of panicking and signing Amar'e, we should have not signed anybody, and tried again the next offseason.

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:We have to get away from the short term fixes and get a guy who will part of the organization and here for the long haul..We need guys who understand the market..We can't have guys who are here to make a splash and feels like he is under the gun...WE almost traded Shump, Felton,2 picks and maybe TimJR for Lowry until Dolan stepped in..Think about that for a sec...Dolan was the sane one...We need a guy who understands NY and will be here....H20 fits that bill...Give him the reins...

You're right -- agree about the no more short-term fixes and yeah, funny how Dolan turned out to be the sane one regarding Lowry. And it was the right move imo. Lowry screams lateral move that doesn't make us much better...and then we'll have to either sign him to a fairly substantial deal (which will adversely affect the rebuilding effort) or risk losing him and then having nothing to show for the trade (the Curtis Granderson effect). Thing is -- where's Steve Mills saying this isn't the right move for us?? He presented and recommended this quick fix idea to Dolan. Think about that. I want Mills replaced with a real qualified GM asap...Disagree on H2O though -- rebuilding this team from scratch will require someone a little more qualified and experienced. Houston needs to continue to learn the business and hone his craft. Turn the Erie Bayhawks around first, then we'll talk.

People thought Mark Jackson didn't know how to coach too...So Donnie went with the big name...

holfresh wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:We have to get away from the short term fixes and get a guy who will part of the organization and here for the long haul..We need guys who understand the market..We can't have guys who are here to make a splash and feels like he is under the gun...WE almost traded Shump, Felton,2 picks and maybe TimJR for Lowry until Dolan stepped in..Think about that for a sec...Dolan was the sane one...We need a guy who understands NY and will be here....H20 fits that bill...Give him the reins...

You're right -- agree about the no more short-term fixes and yeah, funny how Dolan turned out to be the sane one regarding Lowry. And it was the right move imo. Lowry screams lateral move that doesn't make us much better...and then we'll have to either sign him to a fairly substantial deal (which will adversely affect the rebuilding effort) or risk losing him and then having nothing to show for the trade (the Curtis Granderson effect). Thing is -- where's Steve Mills saying this isn't the right move for us?? He presented and recommended this quick fix idea to Dolan. Think about that. I want Mills replaced with a real qualified GM asap...Disagree on H2O though -- rebuilding this team from scratch will require someone a little more qualified and experienced. Houston needs to continue to learn the business and hone his craft. Turn the Erie Bayhawks around first, then we'll talk.

People thought Mark Jackson didn't know how to coach too...So Donnie went with the big name...

That's true. That GS team's scuffling a little bit right now but I still think Jax is a hell of a young coach. He's in full command during his huddles and I like what he said recently trying to fire up his players: "The guys not playing in the suits seem to want it more than the guys in uniform." I thought that was great. He'll figure it out. They still need a few more pieces but that team's clearly on their way...A hell of a lot further along than we are, that's for sure.

Finestrg wrote:

holfresh wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Dolan is our GM- Dolan is not going to fire himself. This is the buffoon who after the past 13 years has come to the conclusion that he needs to be MORE involved. Thats the lessons he took from that. Unbelievable.

Can you really blame Dolan..He gave the reins to Donnie who brought in MDA and quickly signed Amare..How did that work for us???

Yeah, I've been thinking of Donnie while fleshing this out -- obviously, Donnie was wrong on Amar'e. Or 75% wrong--let's put it that way. Amar'e was GREAT here his 1st year. Can't take that away from Donnie...or STAT. But Donnie got some things wrong here -- David Lee should've been retained. The grass ain't always greener and it definitely wasn't regarding David Lee vs. taking on Amar'e. David Lee's one of the best PFs in the game now (even was back then), while STAT's a shell of what he once was. And the signs we're there -- PHX didn't care to retain him because of his injury problems. We took a chance with Amar'e -- it worked out for 1 year. Downhill ever since. And the follow up move --- the Lee trade for AR/Turiaf/Azubuike was terrible. Even Donnie's 2 big draft picks--Gallinari and Shumpert--can be looked at as questionable moves as well. Donnie was good overall and added credibility but he wasn't the best I've ever seen. Some obvious mistakes were made. Would Penn make these same type of mistakes? Would Penn look to acquire a big-money guy like Amar'e Stoudemire, knowing the injury history and the fact that we couldn't even get his contract fully insured? I don't think so. That's what we need now -- someone who will break it all down and start over from ground zero. Absolutely no more quick fixes or semi-quick fixes!!

Hey, I don't wanna come on here and sound like a hypocrite -- I liked the Amar'e move at the time and I even saw positives with the Lee trade (loved the potential Anthony Randolph had at the time -- I thought this guy would flourish playing for D'Antoni, I thought Turiaf compared favorable to Kendrick Perkins at the time and I though Kelenna Azu would eventually make it back to give us something even if we had to wait a little bit---I was naïve and wrong just like the Knicks were). I know I'm not the only one here...Turns out both moves were extremely short-sighted and turned around to be the wrong moves.

Maybe the whole Walsh plan was flawed -- maybe we should've bypassed 2010 FA altogether after LeBron chose South Beach. And we should've held onto David Lee, a guy who made great progress as a player in a Knick uniform, perhaps more than any other homegrown player in recent memory.

Hindsight is always 20/20 -- I get that. Tough to jump on Donnie. Can a guy like Tom Penn do it better this time? I think so...WE gotta start with the idea that there won't be any quick fixes this time. Then go from there...Maybe all the Garden renovations buy Jimmy a couple of years. People will still come to see the new Garden, even in the midst of a rebuilding effort. And if Dolan gets hurt in the wallet with attendance during a rebuild -- so be it. They need to come to the realization soon that this probably needs to be done for the greater good. Let's get it right this time!