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troubling quote by isiah
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djsunyc
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4/28/2004  9:57 AM
http://nypost.com/sports/knicks/23407.htm
* Thomas, picking 43rd, in the second round, said he could trade up into the first round, but emphasized he considers the draft insignificant.

"If a player is there we think we may want to chase, we possibly can get into the first round, but the draft is not how I'm not looking to build."

i think it's just a smokescreen but i'm kinda scratching my head on this one...
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djsunyc
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4/28/2004  10:03 AM
but he does also say this in other articles:
"Our decision was for the next three years while you still have Allan at the dollar figure that he's at, let's try to put some players around him and try to take a run at it for the next three years and see what happens. If it doesn't work, now patchwork is over. But in the meantime, while you've patched up, you've also tried to get younger and get better.
BRIGGS
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4/28/2004  10:48 AM
this team is going to be veteran. you are talking about guys like finley in terms of trading and something like mark blount for the mle thats what they are going to do. they have to cover the 2 spot, there is just no doubt about that, but probably with a aplayer who can play 2-3. Penny Hardaway played all right, but his shooting % was way to low and I doubt he can be counted on in terms of durability either--although he played in a good number if games the last two years.

when i said i didnt like the starbury trade, that i thought it would put us in a quagmire in terms of what this team can do, i knew just looking at the $$$$$$$ that I was pretty close on. was this team going to trade off all those young assets to trade for 4 months later, not likely.

the word *patchwork* is sure a scary term, but its a term that knick and ranger fans should be used to. just because you spend $$$$ doesnt mean you are putting togerther a product that has any viable chance to win the whole thing and that really is unfair to the fan.




this team will do somethings and some fans will say oh golly gee we are going to win a championship!
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djsunyc
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4/28/2004  11:04 AM
i think knows EXACTLY what he's doing and he's just talking yang to the reporters. he's gonna bring in players to make the knicks a championship team - i don't think giving away young players is in his m.o. for this team. he got it out of his system bringing marbury here.
fishmike
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4/28/2004  11:40 AM
Briggs.. read what he actually said. He said its not feasable to just dump contracts and rebuild, especially (and he mentioned their names outright) when you have Houston and Anderson combining for $28 mill of a $42 mill salary cap.

He said we are commited to getting younger.

I'm not sure where the confusion is here, or why you are convinced Finly is going to be a Knick.

Elton Brand will be a Knick before Finley is... trust me
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/28/2004  11:50 AM
if you say mark blount i give you a nice case. an unrestricted FA who had a bit of a breakout year but not enough to merit anything more than 5mm per year.

elton brand? what do the NY knicks have to give up for Brand? nothing elton brand is better than any knick
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fishmike
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4/28/2004  12:15 PM
NY sends KT to Utah for a late #1 (they have 2.. 22 and 23 I think)
NY sends that pick to LAC, with Nazr and Frank Williams (they desperatly need a PG) for Elton Brand.

LAC immediatly saves about $5 mill a year, gets 2 players that fill a need and an addition draft pick.

Look, I hate wasting time going over trade proposals but the Clippers were terrible, and my guess is they would rather sign the more exciting player to watch in QRichardson and get out from Brand's $80 mill contract.

What in Isiah's history suggests he will want to build his team around other team's castoffs and retreads?

I would hate to give up Frank AND Sweetney, but with Marbury 27 and Brand 25 you have a great inside outside combo on BOTH sides of the ball for next 8 years or more.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
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4/28/2004  12:26 PM
Posted by fishmike:

NY sends KT to Utah for a late #1 (they have 2.. 22 and 23 I think)
NY sends that pick to LAC, with Nazr and Frank Williams (they desperatly need a PG) for Elton Brand.

LAC immediatly saves about $5 mill a year, gets 2 players that fill a need and an addition draft pick.

Look, I hate wasting time going over trade proposals but the Clippers were terrible, and my guess is they would rather sign the more exciting player to watch in QRichardson and get out from Brand's $80 mill contract.

What in Isiah's history suggests he will want to build his team around other team's castoffs and retreads?

I would hate to give up Frank AND Sweetney, but with Marbury 27 and Brand 25 you have a great inside outside combo on BOTH sides of the ball for next 8 years or more.

good post fish, the problem here with a lot of posters is that they get caught up with ESPN highlights on players and all of a sudden think they these guys are future hall of famers. I like Brand and magette and even Richardson, but with the exception for Q, the other two have huge deals, and neither are players that are going to lead their teams to the title without a star player to play with them. The clippers even realize this, that is why it is not so far fetched to think that the clippers for the right deal and some cap flex, would part with brand... There are no more stephon Marbury's out there for the clippers to get, and hadn't it been for the heat offering brand that deal, the clipps might not have given him that much money.... I would not be suprised to see what IT comes up with, it may not be brand but I am sure he is going to get the knicks what they need to succeed...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
fishmike
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4/28/2004  12:44 PM
In fairness to IT he may have to wait a year until something like this comes up. This was just me trying to put a borderline realistic scenario together.

All this talk about players like Mike Finley is totally unfounded. This isnt Scott LAyden anymore, and Dolan has said point blank Isiah can do another money deal.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/28/2004  2:23 PM
what?
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fishmike
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4/28/2004  2:28 PM
you come the only writing you understand has "Knicks have no future" in it?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/28/2004  2:42 PM
the knicks are going to patchwork it, they have the MLE and ending contracts to get two players in here--guys with problems like stackhouse finley etc... to say elton brand is just not reality based. dont you think that 25 other teams want Brand? Why wouldnt Utah give up all 3 1st rounders for Brand? and just take the salary space off their hands so they can get a shot at kobe? you dont trade a guy like brand, especially for a joke offer of nazr and FW. LA has a very high lottery pick--they are going to get a very good player to enhance their roster. They have salary cap space again up to 8mm--the Clippers and the Knicks are not trading buddies. Nazr and Frank williams are worth very little remember we just got nazr for a 2 nd round pick and he didnt do much in the playoffs. he plays good 1nce every 3 games.
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EnySpree
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4/28/2004  2:48 PM
isiah alreadt told us he's gonna lie to us......

excpect alot of change......

no one thought he could get Marbury or that he was even on the market. Marbury is 27....his window is about 5 years before he starts to lose a step....isiah is gonna try to get guys around that age to get the knicks to that championship level...
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fishmike
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4/28/2004  2:52 PM
I dont think 25 other teams can afford Brand... maybe 2 or 3. Whats reality based? Van Exel for Jamison? Jermain Oneil for Dale Davis? Rasheed Wallace for nothing? I still dont know what Det gave up... Atkins? Chris Mills? Draft rights to Kobe Bryant for Vlade Divac? Please tell me which reality your refering to...

It seems in your reality our expiring contracts are worth less than other teams, that our veteran players have no value and that Scott Layden is still running the team.

But you can be patient for 3-4 years and see if Josh Smith develops right?

Nazr average 10/8 as starter and nobody wants him, yet Dampier averages 9 points and 7 rebs at 30 years old for the last 8 years and he's totally unattainable for a team like the Knicks.

Its just that you say these things CANT happen, then when they do you say "we should have done THAT."
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/28/2004  2:53 PM
two obstacles we dont have much to barter with

we have spent an enormous amount of $$$$$$

just from listening to dolan 2 days ago i can readily tell he is a terrible manager what owner of any business would say we dont care about ongoing salaries, just on a year to year basis?
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fishmike
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4/28/2004  3:06 PM
hey... anyone that says their arent obstacles is nuts. Clearly their are and its very possible nothing will happen.

Dolan did say straight out he was giving Isiah full resources, and if another deal like the Marbury trade were to come along and that player was someone Isiah had "stong conviction" over Dolan would approve that trade with no questions asked. That just tells me he can make one more money deal.

I dont think it has to be this year because I am patient (some arent). I agree we dont have great assets, but its not like we have no assets. If he's going to make a big trade for that caliber player he will have to liquidate some pieces. I agree that expiring contracts alone wont do it. Those are most valueable come deadline where just like Chris Mills can be liquidated for draft picks or more junk can turn into Raweed.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigSm00th
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4/28/2004  7:53 PM
I've gotta say fish wins this argument.
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BigSm00th
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4/28/2004  9:13 PM
"elton brand? what do the NY knicks have to give up for Brand? nothing elton brand is better than any knick"

Would the Clips trade Brand for FWilliams, Sweetney, Mutumbo, and Harrington? Would the Knicks? Clips get a PG, get a PF similar to Brand for less, and 2 expiring contracts.

I wouldn't put anything as No Way, becuase a lot of weird things happen in the NBA.
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martin
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4/29/2004  12:58 AM
Posted by BigSm00th:

I've gotta say fish wins this argument.

whoa. I didn't ever think I would see these works from the BigSmooth.
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BigSm00th
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4/29/2004  1:20 AM
Did you confuse me with Briggs again?

I got nothing against fish, he's a knowledgeable poster, I like reading his stuff.

There ain't no beef as BIG would say.
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