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turtle33
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4/28/2004  3:21 PM
haywood isnt uncoordinated he just has not so good hands. he is a quality rebonder and shot blocker. thomas may play bigger than 6'9" but he is still 6'9". he dos play with alot of heart though.
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fishmike
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4/28/2004  3:26 PM
Blount would be nice... your right he's not the savior but Briggs is always talking about style of play and I would much rather have Blount than a lot of others. 6 years and $38 mill might do it.

I have no doubt we could move Nazr for a mid-low first rounder. I'm actually convinced thats why we got him... some part of part bait. If we could then use that to draft JRSmith (the kid from NJ) we would be in GREAT shape moving forward.

If Houston cant go put Frank at the other guard spot. He's a good tough defender and a great passer next to Steph and TT in the half court or runing the floor. Then you look something like this:
pg Marbury
sg Williams
sf TThomas
pf KT
c Blount
Bench: Penny, Sweetney, Baker

You put a versatile scoring 3 around 4 guys that are good defenders and play hardnosed ball. Also you have 3 great ball handlers in the starting line up and 1 coming off the bench.

Briggs... you like that style of play (no I'm not being sarcastic)
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fishmike
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4/28/2004  3:28 PM
Haywood isnt good enough to justify is rock hands and the fact he trips over his own feet. Havent you seen enough of Nazr bad footwork and greasy hands?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BRIGGS
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4/28/2004  3:29 PM
i think the way they will go is mark blount. it makes the mosts sense because he is unrestricted-meaning the only barrier to signing with him is cash and i believe he will not get an offer more attractive then the MLE because he just hasnt done it long enough, BUT if you look at his game log if you watched him play, hes a value at the MLE for the knicks. we can say etan thomas hey you can even say haywood[but we dont want him] no matter what we dont have final say on the matter.

and here is the next factor--you have 1 MLE --IF you sign someone to a offer sheet the other team has 15 days to match. they take all 15 and match--you are scrwd for other players. thats why for the knicks Mark Blount probably makes the most sense after they take whatever run at raweed. after that you are looking to get into the draft for a C if you can mark blount is probably a guy they will have high on the radar not saying i like it, but for what the knicks are what position they are in--hes probably the correct option.
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kam77
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4/28/2004  3:33 PM
You guys are missing the point about Etan.

His last name is THOMAS! We could corner the market on THOMASes. Imagine the trouble we'd give the opposing team's broadcasting unit!

Knicks have the 5million MLE and the 1.6million LLE. MLE can be used in consecutive seasons I believe. Isn't that how Dikembe was signed?

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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4/28/2004  3:35 PM
Seriously though.

ETAN is not a smart player. One of the last games of the season, WIZ are down a point with 5 secodns left and miss their shot. A Knick grabs the rebound and it's the guy Etan is covering. Instead of fouling the Knick player, ETAN is down near halfcourt as if he was trying to get back on defense.

This would be inexcusable stupidity if he were in a Knick Uni.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
EnySpree
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4/28/2004  4:25 PM
Etan is a Knick type of player, regardless of that one dumb play.

How many is KT guilty of? Just look at his defense on K-Mart. You can't let K-Mart run the floor without putting a body on him. Alot of times KT is just watching a play like one of us. He also refuses to step out and defend the perimeter. How many 3pts has he given up by playing off of his defender or forgeting to switch on defense?

Etan plays the blocks like a true "big man". I can see Sweetney playing that role like someone already said on this thread. Sweets just has to get nastier. I can see Dallas or some team like that signing him. He'd be great for Dallas.
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gunsnewing
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4/28/2004  6:39 PM
if we can move KT, Etan will be a perfect backup PF to Sweetney. Him and Sweetney will give you so much hustle and hardwork from the PF position. And because of that you can have Baker backup Nazr at Center. Of course this is all assuming we don't get Rasheed or another top-notch bigman or even Stromile Swift.
Andrew
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4/28/2004  7:03 PM
I'm trying to figure out what gives the distiction of 'having heart'. Kmart has heart? Well maybe...but I don't think you can say he has more heart than TT....not yet at least. Calling out your teamates via the media doesn't convince me someone has heart....neither does the felxing and screaming on the court.
Posted by BRIGGS:

Tim Thomas is a high skill player with slightly above average NBA athletiscm low basketball IQ and no heart. Kenyon Martin is a guy who has way above average athletiscm very good skills solid basketball IQ a tremendous heart a true warrior--two different breeds of players.

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tkf
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4/28/2004  8:01 PM
Posted by fishmike:

"in any event you DONT trade a guy like elton brand."

Really? Do you trade players like Jermain Oneil, Antwan Jamison? Chris Webber? I mean do we really have to go through the list of every trade that ever made you scratch your head? Jalen Rose for Artest, Miller and Mercer? Elton Brand for Tyson Chander? We could go at this all day, but your wrong. Plain and simple.

YOU would NOT trade Elton Brand. What the Clippers or other teams do isnt what you would do. Every organization has a different agenda. Cuban would have a $200 mill payroll if it meant he beat Shaq and Kobe for a title. Sterling would have a $5 mill payroll if the NBA would let him and his building still sold 12,000 tickets a game.

Teams will make a bad trade just to get $5 mill in cap flexibility or avoid a luxury tax that may or may not hit. These things happen multiple times every year, so please stop assuring me there is a 99.9% chance we will only get some retread or cast off. Its old and I like to think you know more about the NBA than that. Else I wouldnt read what you write at all.

Living in total denial that every team has different needs and different agendas is not living in reality.

The difference between then and now is Isiah will take a risk on move for a young player or pick because his reputation and position affords him to. LAyden was paralyzed by fear and no other GM would take to him anyway.

great post, and to add another few points, the clippers were forced into giving both brand and magette those huge deals because they had to match another teams deal. They even let odom go despite sterlings comments of how much he wanted to keep odom a clipper for his career....hmmm how money changes things... The truth is that sterling can't be happy that he has a new coach, players with new contracts and they still are losing, no one should ever use the word never with that team, if sterling can get some talent in return with some cheaper contracts, Brand and or magette will be a goner....
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BigSm00th
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4/28/2004  8:49 PM
I like Etan, he a high energy player who will contribute a lot on defense and rebounding. Also born in Harlem, definitely a plus to get these NYers.

The two negatives I see in Etan are he seems to miss a lot of games and he has zero offensive moves on the post. I'd like to get a guy who I know will play if you're going to committ almost $40 million at him, and the Knicks would still be lacking a guy who has a legitimate post game or a big man who scores. Also, I think Sweetney can develop into a player similar to him, minus the shot blocking. And that matching of the MLE is always something to worry about.

Definitely a nice prospect though.
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EnySpree
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4/28/2004  9:03 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

I like Etan, he a high energy player who will contribute a lot on defense and rebounding. Also born in Harlem, definitely a plus to get these NYers.

The two negatives I see in Etan are he seems to miss a lot of games and he has zero offensive moves on the post. I'd like to get a guy who I know will play if you're going to committ almost $40 million at him, and the Knicks would still be lacking a guy who has a legitimate post game or a big man who scores. Also, I think Sweetney can develop into a player similar to him, minus the shot blocking. And that matching of the MLE is always something to worry about.

Definitely a nice prospect though.

More than definate.....
If the Knicks had another exemption, I'd like him to be on the team over any of the Knicks big men. I'm a Etan Fan. You gotta respect his hustle, and fire. He's a true dread so you know that brings alot of pride in himself.

I'd love for him to be a Knick but he's worth the whole 5 mil exemption....lord knows he'll be blasted by the media if that's all he picks up with the 5.1 exemption.

He's a legit 6'10". I'd like to have Etan, Baker, Sweetney and Nazr to platoon the 4-5.

I just really like the guy.

[Edited by - enyspree on 04/28/2004 21:05:46]
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BigSm00th
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4/28/2004  10:03 PM
"He's a legit 6'10". I'd like to have Etan, Baker, Sweetney and Nazr to platoon the 4-5.

I just really like the guy."

I like him too, fact of the matter is if you go into next season with Etan, Baker, Sweetney, Nazr, and I assume KT as well, there's not one player with a consistent post game. The Knicks are the same as last year, a jumpshooting team with nothing to go to downlow and no offensive option from a bigman, unless you consider KT launching 18' fadeaways, while using his 4" vertical as a way to get separation from the D as offense.

If you want a shotblocker sign Chris Anderson, he'll be much cheaper. To give Etan Thomas all that money when he's virtually the same player as Nazr Mohammed makes no sense to me.

Etan vs. Nazr
PPG - 8.9 vs 7.4
RPG - 6.7 vs 5.9
BPG - 1.56 vs .56
MPG - 24 vs 20

Etan's slightly better in every category, but if you're Isiah you're going to ink a guy that's slightly better than your backup C to a 5 yr, $35 million deal?? That's what I'd try to avoid, I don't want another Howard Eisley disaster where they have a guy who is grossly overpaid and one dimensional.

If it's Ben Wallace its one thing to give all that money to, but for a guy who might not start, just doesn't make sense financially and logically to me.

Lenny said they want to add a post scorer or a guy on the wing. Etan is neither of those.
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EnySpree
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4/28/2004  11:11 PM
You right big smooth....

I just really like Etan Thomas. I'd love to have him coming off the bench. But like you said and everyone else says, the Knicks need a low post scorer.

So does every other team in the league. Knicks need more than just any post up guy. They need one that mesh with Marbury and the rest of the Knicks.

Elton Brand seems like the favorite of this board lately....I just don't know if the Clips would take KT when Wilcox looks like he would slide over to the starting 4 in Brands absence. They got Bobby Simmons, Ely, Kaman too. You never know though.

Elton can only become a Knick with a trade. So if that happens Etan would be a great pick up. Then it would be closer to a Brand, Etan, Sweetney, Nazr rotation which is awesome.

I'm not even into the playoffs anymore. I just can't wait till the draft when Isiah stops the show to have a news conference to announce a big trade.
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VDesai
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4/29/2004  12:37 AM
I like Etan Thomas a lot...a high energy player with a lot of heart. He reminds me a lot of a young Brian Grant (they even sort of look alike). I would definitely like to get him. I understand the duplication factor but Kurt Thomas is likely traded anyway. Start Sweetney at PF and use Etan as a backup PF/C. I think we have to do our best to get the best player possible for the MLE and worry about how they fit later. Upgrading the talent base is task no.1.

[Edited by - VDesai on 04/29/2004 00:38:02]
BigSm00th
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4/29/2004  12:43 AM
I agree with updating the talent base, I just also want to not overpay and consider all options first.

There are a few guys I would look at with the MLE before I went to Etan. If I wound up at Etan, I wouldn't be upset, he's a very nice player, but I'd say the Knicks need more as of now.
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martin
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4/29/2004  12:47 AM
I still don't get it. You need to build a team that compliments itself. One of the C or PF positions needs to be a post player, the other a guy who can hit the open face the basket shot. One of the 2 has to be a shot blocker. Each has to be good defenders of big men.

What does Etan add that the Knicks already do not have? Why waste the MLE?

Yeah he grew up in NY. So what. He plays with heart, so what. Does he shot block like a maniac on the weak side? Not really. The Knicks need a shot blocker, they just do not have one. Not only would he take minutes from Sweets, he would take minutes from Nazr (who is really just an overgrown PF at this point).

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BigSm00th
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4/29/2004  1:18 AM
"What does Etan add that the Knicks already do not have? Why waste the MLE?"

That's what I've been trying to say, well said Martin.
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EnySpree
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4/29/2004  1:24 AM
heart goes along way....

It all depends on what Isiah does. If Isiah makes a trade and has to get rid of say Sweetney or Nazr along with Mutombo and KT then Etan has to be on the radar.

He does block alot of shots with the minutes he gets. He deserves more than he gets in Washinton but they have alot of youth over there and have no identity.

He has inside presence something that KT for one doesn't bring to the game. Etan runs and jumps well and plays aggressive. You gotta like him....but the Knicks need a scorer first.

If they do get the scorer though in a trade....they need to get Etan to help fill out the roster.
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diderotn
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4/29/2004  9:05 AM
Just to let all of you know, I reside in Maryland and I had the luxury to watch Etan developed to be the player that he is currently. I must admit early on he appeared to be a stiff. However the few years that he played next to Jordan really did him a lot of goods. If Doug Collins was smart he would have had Etan in the game and tried to develop him instead of Kwame. This dude has been one of the most consistant player for the Wiz the last couple of years. He plays so hard, he often injured himself, and that IMO is a good thing. You have said that Etan doesn't have an ofensive move in the low post, I must tell you that he has started to improve that part of his game. With the coaching staff that we have around, he would have had the perfect mentors to guide him. For the money that we currently have available, Etan is the only bruiser out there that can bring the wood in the paint. After all he is also very young. One name that Isia must look at as a PF is Mo Taylor, he has a decent post-up game, but he might cost us.



Posted by BigSm00th:

I like Etan, he a high energy player who will contribute a lot on defense and rebounding. Also born in Harlem, definitely a plus to get these NYers.

The two negatives I see in Etan are he seems to miss a lot of games and he has zero offensive moves on the post. I'd like to get a guy who I know will play if you're going to committ almost $40 million at him, and the Knicks would still be lacking a guy who has a legitimate post game or a big man who scores. Also, I think Sweetney can develop into a player similar to him, minus the shot blocking. And that matching of the MLE is always something to worry about.

Definitely a nice prospect though.
The true Knickabocker..........
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