Now, don't get me wrong - I wish no ill towards Woodson, but for the sanity of the team, he has to get fired.

This group is in such a funk, Woodson included, that they are lost and playing below potential.

Without even addressing the kinds of plays he runs, they as a group are struggling to right the ship, that they need to bring in a fresh voice, someone who isn't mired in the crap that the knick season has become- and have that voice help lead the players back from the pit they have fallen into.

Every day Dolan waits isn't him being patient - its him being indecisive. This is not a judgement on him as a coach - its a judgement on the situation being so bad, that change of some kind has to happen.

The Knick front office needs to get a fresh voice of reason in the huddle- someone who can help get these guys playing again so reasoned, logical objective assessments can be made about the talent and the direction of this franchise.

Maybe Dolan realizes he may need to tear this down, and rebuild.

I'd rather watch the knicks full of NBDL talent and a promise to draft and retain players than this garbage- because we keep getting beat by expansion teams!

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:This team isn't playing below its skill level. If Bargs is your 2nd best player, you'll have a .300 team.

The Knicks certainly didn't move out their second or third best player to get bargs. They moved out their tenth, 14th and 15th. Their second best player from last year is shooting 12.5% for his last two games and has 9 pts in 55 minutes.
NOt sure what your point is going hard after bargs. Novak isnt putting up numbers. 9 points in 56 minutes shooting 3-13. The other two guys in the trade aren't in the league this year.

They tried MDA with this group, and, the patient (Melo) rejected the transplant by striking. Fine, elevate 'player friendly' coach who, promoted as the "anti-MDA", "he'll emphasize Defense", actually doesn't do that at all, and buys peace with this group by abdicating leadership to the players, and enabling ISO ball, JR-craziness, and twice an hour defense.

Woodson, in many ways, was smart - realized that unless Melo happy (no PG, ball through him, no PNR, no Amare, etc), coach can't survive.

Will next coach have ability to instill system - offensive or defensive - that this group accepts? If don't believe that the case, then why replace coach.....

Woodson's inexplicable loyalty to JR is a story that some day will be written about.

Knicks22 wrote:
Bargs isn't part of the problem, i believe he's part of the solution. Adds mid range game that this team of 3 point chuckers need.

They tried MDA with this group, and, the patient (Melo) rejected the transplant by striking. Fine, elevate 'player friendly' coach who, promoted as the "anti-MDA", "he'll emphasize Defense", actually doesn't do that at all, and buys peace with this group by abdicating leadership to the players, and enabling ISO ball, JR-craziness, and twice an hour defense.

Woodson, in many ways, was smart - realized that unless Melo happy (no PG, ball through him, no PNR, no Amare, etc), coach can't survive.

Will next coach have ability to instill system - offensive or defensive - that this group accepts? If don't believe that the case, then why replace coach.....

Woodson's inexplicable loyalty to JR is a story that some day will be written about.

Yeah, it's nothing personal about Bargs. He's played a little better than I expected and I think he'd at least be a bench player on a winning team. But he's the worst 2nd best player on a team's roster.

What do you want Woodson to do? He literally has nobody, unless Amar'e turns the corner.

WE should fire Woodson, trade Melo and get something in return *without hurting our salary cap for 2015*
For Melo, I proposed a trade with Dallas in the Blake Griffen thread

and

NO MORE ISO plays to raise value of players in a system where everyone can feel involved
Get back in to playing TEAM ball, with ball movement, and developing a system/identity that we lack

get a proven GM and Head Coach, with management, new assistant coaches, upgrade development coach/equipment/facility, and

In addition, we would possibly be able to use our MLE, which could be the 3m or possibly even the 5m MLE (that we could use on one or 2 players to keep beyond our 2015 roster)
Role player are very important and we haven't been able to get the versatile SF's, PG's, and backup PF/C's with the ability to start at times
We have to value cap space and not overpay players and our GM must be able to sign players that would become assets for us, that has had PROVEN success in the league so Dolan will not interfere in his decision making, especially in trades or FA signings

This Summer
MLE depending on 3m or 5m if we trade Melo, possibly splitting 5m MLE on 2 solid players
================================================================================================

Sessions/Bayless
Lowry
Vasquez (especially if we want to run 2PG's, playing him at SG)

Deng
Marion (if we don't trade for him, we would have his bird rights if so, so we can use it on another player)
Trevor Ariza

Blatche
Channing Frye (has played quite well ever since he went to The Sun's)

Gortat
Robin Lopez (Brook's brother) *team option*
Koufus *team option*

players that could be split MLE on with some of the players above like Sessions/Bayless or even using a small portion on undrafted players in the summer's draft or in the pasts drafts
to 3 year team option deals

Darren Collison
Mo Williams
Patrick Mills (maybe even vet min)

Nate Robinson/Randy Foye *player option)

Patrick Patterson (if Toronto lets him go for cap space)
Humphries
BJ Mullens (maybe vet min)

Most importantly, we would need to change coaches that teaches/develops/inspires our team and HOLD PLAYERS ACCOUNTABLE and is willing to put them in their place to make a statement, along with a GM, and President of Operations that works together, a DEVELOPMENT STAFF, and value's youth and development in addition to trying to acquire young talent (undrafted or younger players on bad teams that still have upside)
Developing the next Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Paul George, requires a high draft pick which we likely will not own *unless 2015 summers draft pick*

But

We can continue to use the 3m that we haven't used this year in trades or to purchase picks in the draft (for this summers draft and use it again, for next season, to find young talent or trades)
No reason why we cant find and develop the next Danny Green/ Gary Neal type talent
or get very lucky with 2nd round picks and late 1st rounders with the next
Chandler Parsons, Marc Gasol, DaAndre Jordan, and Lance Stephensons,

We have to be able to work as a TEAM and ISO ball doesn't work unless we have a highly, versatile, and efficient players that shoots near 50% and brings many other skills to the table
Offering Poppavich a head coaching job for a couple years and moving him to our president as he finds his successor like Riley has done with the Heat (possibly Tim Duncan as head coach with his fundamental skills, leadership, DEFENSIVE abilities, high IQ, unselfishness, gets respect and players would listen to him in the league from all players to attract FA's to develop/mentor of Championship Pedigree

Targets in 2015 would be
==============================

Lebron

Kevin Love
Aldridge
Roy Hibbert

Room Exemption for Duncan on 2year deal (while letting him retire in 1 year for 2-3m per year but getting paid 2nd year as well and a large guarantee in future salaries as a coach
an old TIM DUNCAN can still mentor and be our Hakeem for Houston (room exemption, 2 deal but giving him the money even if he retires in 1 year of service say 2m per year for 2 years but giving him the entire 4m for one year) while promising him a future job as an assistant coach or development coach when he is ready to retire)

If we miss out on majority of the top tier agents
Go after cost efficient young talents with upside that can play in a SYSTEM and FIT together in building a TEAM

NOT signing all players at 4year deals with team options, like we have in the recent history, this ensures that the players will continue to stay in shape and work hard for their next contract and if not we are able to part with them at reasonable risk, our selling point would be so they can reclaim their once "ALL STAR STATUS"

Above average for their position and SOLID players/starters but NOT All STARs
Say, signing someone like Asik, Varejo, DeAndre Jordan, or even resigning AB, on a cap friendly contract without overpaying for a max salary

If we gamble, take a gamble on players/talents, with 2-3 year deals (team options for 2nd, as they would be our #1 and/or #2's) combined with some youth/talented role players)

Bynum

and

Rudy Gay to a 2 year deal with player option at a much lower deal, as he probably would be our #1 or #2 to shine in NY

Rhondo

Gasol brothers if the price is right (Pau Gasol might not even get a long term deal because of his age and 2015 FA's this summer and Marc has a player option

Dirk *at the right price/years, he might not get a long term deal at his age/injuries or a TEAM option till 2015 summer for this summer

Dragic (at the right price, he has a 7m player option) he isn't exactly a role player but you can never overpay for a PG and at 7m I think he is a cost efficient player)

role players
-----------------

Lin *can Linsanity return??? or can he be a 6th man type player to run a team and score....

Norris Cole/ Beverely,

Budinger

Nick Collison
Amir Johnson
AR (much smaller deal)

MosGov
Koufus

2016
==========

Durant (you never know, he would be a UFA, and if we have a solid youth team in addition to solid role players already, with an attractive HEAD COACH/SYSTEM and GM) NYK could make sense for him

some lower level VERSATILE talents include

Battum

AL Horford
David Lee

Noah
Pekovic

Reggie Jackson

Hickson and Speights (supremley under rated players that can be starters are quality backup bigs)

and

Monta Ellis if we need a SCORER and he doesn't show signs of breaking down because his game is based on athleticism/speed/penetration

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I thought Woodson shoulda been fired after the Indiana series. By failing to speak out against the ridiculous way that series was being officiated,he cost us at least 1 game in that series. Any big time coach or wanna be big time coach takes the fine, media supports coach, teams star gets 20 FTs next game. The NBA special.