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Game Thread: Knicks @ Wizards - Saturday, 11/23 7:00 PM - Critical Game
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holfresh
Posts: 38679
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11/24/2013  12:03 AM
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

What type of PG is that?? Like Lin u mean??..

Any pg that holds on to the ball and runs an offense.

U object to Melo holding the ball but support another player pounding the rock for 15 sec of the 24...
AUTOADVERT
dk7th
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11/24/2013  1:07 AM
VCoug wrote:

LMFAO

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
dk7th
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11/24/2013  1:12 AM
nixluva wrote:How long is Woody going to just stand there and watch his slow old PG's get torched by younger, quicker and more athletic PG's? He seems oblivious to the fact that he has to do something. The entire point of signing Murry was that he was a young guard that we could use for defensive purposes. He's long and quick. Sure Murry is raw as Sushi, but can't be worse than what we've been watching. This was a problem last year too but when we were hitting 3's it covered up the facts.

how do you know that isn't simply robbing peter to pay paul?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
markvmc
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11/24/2013  1:21 AM
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

I would gladly take the turnovers for the constant breaking down the D Lin provides. There is more positives out of breaking down the D than there are negatives from his turnovers.

I think Lin is better with the ball in his hands looking to score...I think he is better coming off the bench in a role where u need offense...Turnovers matters in the playoffs..

Not that that's going to matter for us...
knickscity
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11/24/2013  1:54 AM
dk7th wrote:
nixluva wrote:How long is Woody going to just stand there and watch his slow old PG's get torched by younger, quicker and more athletic PG's? He seems oblivious to the fact that he has to do something. The entire point of signing Murry was that he was a young guard that we could use for defensive purposes. He's long and quick. Sure Murry is raw as Sushi, but can't be worse than what we've been watching. This was a problem last year too but when we were hitting 3's it covered up the facts.

how do you know that isn't simply robbing peter to pay paul?


Might be, but makes no sense not to try something new, even if the team loses, wasnt like they werent doing that already.
toad
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11/24/2013  7:52 AM
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

LOL. You mean the guy who turns it over even more?
toad
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11/24/2013  7:57 AM
This team is terrible. As many of us said going into the season, we were missing the kind of leadership that keeps the team focused on every game, that steadies the team as the opponent makes a run. What we have is a collection of knuckleheads that think leadership is falling into the same bad individual habits when things get heated. I still think there's enough talent to get us to the playoffs eventually, but who cares? Melo as your best player and leader is the worst thing in the NBA--an unbalanced, overpaid, mediocre team.
Bonn1997
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11/24/2013  9:10 AM
markvmc wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

I would gladly take the turnovers for the constant breaking down the D Lin provides. There is more positives out of breaking down the D than there are negatives from his turnovers.

I think Lin is better with the ball in his hands looking to score...I think he is better coming off the bench in a role where u need offense...Turnovers matters in the playoffs..

Not that that's going to matter for us...


True. And Lin has only 0.2 turnovers a game more than Melo.
holfresh
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11/24/2013  10:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2013  10:51 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
markvmc wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

I would gladly take the turnovers for the constant breaking down the D Lin provides. There is more positives out of breaking down the D than there are negatives from his turnovers.

I think Lin is better with the ball in his hands looking to score...I think he is better coming off the bench in a role where u need offense...Turnovers matters in the playoffs..

Not that that's going to matter for us...


True. And Lin has only 0.2 turnovers a game more than Melo.

Yeah, when u consider Melo leads the league in minutes played and his usage rate..Lin comes off the bench and isn't the primary ball handler when he does..Lin's still manages more TO's than Melo should be considered alarming...
Bonn1997
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11/24/2013  11:17 AM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
markvmc wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

I would gladly take the turnovers for the constant breaking down the D Lin provides. There is more positives out of breaking down the D than there are negatives from his turnovers.

I think Lin is better with the ball in his hands looking to score...I think he is better coming off the bench in a role where u need offense...Turnovers matters in the playoffs..

Not that that's going to matter for us...


True. And Lin has only 0.2 turnovers a game more than Melo.

Yeah, when u consider Melo leads the league in minutes played and his usage rate..Lin comes off the bench and isn't the primary ball handler when he does..Lin's still manages more TO's than Melo should be considered alarming...


Yeah but PGs always have more turnovers than forwards. You're talking about a difference of less than 1 TO per 36 min.
playa2
Posts: 34922
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11/24/2013  11:17 AM
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

What type of PG is that?? Like Lin u mean??..

Any pg that holds on to the ball and runs an offense.

U object to Melo holding the ball but support another player pounding the rock for 15 sec of the 24...

Not just pounding the rock like Melo, because there is no motion by the other players when he does that.

Holding the rock is how Nash played and how Lin played looking for others while creating for themselves when applicable.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
holfresh
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11/24/2013  11:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2013  11:27 AM
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

What type of PG is that?? Like Lin u mean??..

Any pg that holds on to the ball and runs an offense.

U object to Melo holding the ball but support another player pounding the rock for 15 sec of the 24...

Not just pounding the rock like Melo, because there is no motion by the other players when he does that.

Holding the rock is how Nash played and how Lin played looking for others while creating for themselves when applicable.

It still comes down to one guy holding the ball and in Lin's case, calling his own number the majority of the times...Lin led the team in FG attempts and more than doubled teammates TO numbers...Pretty basketball??
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
11/24/2013  11:37 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
markvmc wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

I would gladly take the turnovers for the constant breaking down the D Lin provides. There is more positives out of breaking down the D than there are negatives from his turnovers.

I think Lin is better with the ball in his hands looking to score...I think he is better coming off the bench in a role where u need offense...Turnovers matters in the playoffs..

Not that that's going to matter for us...


True. And Lin has only 0.2 turnovers a game more than Melo.

Yeah, when u consider Melo leads the league in minutes played and his usage rate..Lin comes off the bench and isn't the primary ball handler when he does..Lin's still manages more TO's than Melo should be considered alarming...


Yeah but PGs always have more turnovers than forwards. You're talking about a difference of less than 1 TO per 36 min.

Lin doesn't play the point but plays off the ball mostly...Harden and Beverly handles the ball..PG in name only...
tkf
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11/24/2013  11:39 AM
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

What type of PG is that?? Like Lin u mean??..

Any pg that holds on to the ball and runs an offense.

U object to Melo holding the ball but support another player pounding the rock for 15 sec of the 24...

Not just pounding the rock like Melo, because there is no motion by the other players when he does that.

Holding the rock is how Nash played and how Lin played looking for others while creating for themselves when applicable.

It still comes down to one guy holding the ball and in Lin's case, calling his own number the majority of the times...Lin led the team in FG attempts and more than doubled teammates TO numbers...Pretty basketball??

I would take lin again to come over and save the season for carmelo and the knicks...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
holfresh
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11/24/2013  11:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2013  11:48 AM
tkf wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

What type of PG is that?? Like Lin u mean??..

Any pg that holds on to the ball and runs an offense.

U object to Melo holding the ball but support another player pounding the rock for 15 sec of the 24...

Not just pounding the rock like Melo, because there is no motion by the other players when he does that.

Holding the rock is how Nash played and how Lin played looking for others while creating for themselves when applicable.

It still comes down to one guy holding the ball and in Lin's case, calling his own number the majority of the times...Lin led the team in FG attempts and more than doubled teammates TO numbers...Pretty basketball??

I would take lin again to come over and save the season for carmelo and the knicks...

Since when u cared about saving the Knicks season ..You are more worried about players than the team..
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
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Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/24/2013  12:09 PM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
markvmc wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

I would gladly take the turnovers for the constant breaking down the D Lin provides. There is more positives out of breaking down the D than there are negatives from his turnovers.

I think Lin is better with the ball in his hands looking to score...I think he is better coming off the bench in a role where u need offense...Turnovers matters in the playoffs..

Not that that's going to matter for us...


True. And Lin has only 0.2 turnovers a game more than Melo.

Yeah, when u consider Melo leads the league in minutes played and his usage rate..Lin comes off the bench and isn't the primary ball handler when he does..Lin's still manages more TO's than Melo should be considered alarming...


Yeah but PGs always have more turnovers than forwards. You're talking about a difference of less than 1 TO per 36 min.

Lin doesn't play the point but plays off the ball mostly...Harden and Beverly handles the ball..PG in name only...

Lin, Beverly, and Harden are all combo guards. Labels like traditional "PG" and "SG" are probably both inaccurate here. A combo guard should be expected to get more turnovers than a forward though.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
11/24/2013  12:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/24/2013  12:19 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
markvmc wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Clean wrote:
holfresh wrote:
playa2 wrote:
holfresh wrote:I still can't believe we came back with the same crew then added another slow PG after seeing what happened to the Knicks last year when Felton went down...

Bibby
BD
Kidd
Prigs
now Beno..

At some point someone will figure this out...

We will never want that kind of pg as long as Melo is here.

When the ball is moved by all the players that when we will need that type of pg.

Management has made up their minds , not to let Melo be a decoy, he must be involved with the ball all the time.

It's a playing style thing as well if that's what u mean..I don't like a PG who dominates the ball and every offensive play originates with him...Lin turns the ball over a lot which is why Harden handles the ball most times when he is in the game...

I would gladly take the turnovers for the constant breaking down the D Lin provides. There is more positives out of breaking down the D than there are negatives from his turnovers.

I think Lin is better with the ball in his hands looking to score...I think he is better coming off the bench in a role where u need offense...Turnovers matters in the playoffs..

Not that that's going to matter for us...


True. And Lin has only 0.2 turnovers a game more than Melo.

Yeah, when u consider Melo leads the league in minutes played and his usage rate..Lin comes off the bench and isn't the primary ball handler when he does..Lin's still manages more TO's than Melo should be considered alarming...


Yeah but PGs always have more turnovers than forwards. You're talking about a difference of less than 1 TO per 36 min.

Lin doesn't play the point but plays off the ball mostly...Harden and Beverly handles the ball..PG in name only...

Lin, Beverly, and Harden are all combo guards. Labels like traditional "PG" and "SG" are probably both inaccurate here. A combo guard should be expected to get more turnovers than a forward though.

That's a nice way of trying to explain Lin's high TO rate...Not all that accurate tho..
Bonn1997
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11/24/2013  12:26 PM
hahaha. When you've lost the argument, as might as well declare that you've won and hope that someone believes you
CrushAlot
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11/24/2013  12:43 PM
Brooks had a big game for Houston with Harden out. I wonder if they try a bit harder to move Lin/Asik.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
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Joined: 2/2/2004
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11/24/2013  12:44 PM
They can't afford to move Lin. I don't think they'll get equal value back. There's nothing wrong with having 3 very good guards anyway.
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Game Thread: Knicks @ Wizards - Saturday, 11/23 7:00 PM - Critical Game
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