IronWillGiroud wrote:I gotta be honest with you,

nixluva you're one of the very best posters on this site and even on any other sports site.

This is a joy to read, even though I think we're a pile of crap

HA! Man you made me laugh out loud with that last line. Honestly if we were running a legit offense and playing with energy and effort as well as good execution and still losing then i'd be ready to concede that this roster is a pile of crap. So far I don't know that for sure cuz the execution in every way is so poor. You can be a poor team and still have excellent execution and lose, but at least you know it's the lack of talent.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm afraid I have to blame Woody. He knew more than anyone how much it helped to have Kidd out there making the right decision with the ball. Notice how much better the passing was last year and the purpose of that passing was to lead to a basket at the hoop, open jumper or ISO in great position. We've seen NONE of that this year and surely at least some of that should carry over from last year. Prigs was able to be similar to Kidd in that role of ball mover, but this year they aren't running the same sets with spacing, a basic PnR, player movement and then swinging the ball. That is 100% Woody's fault.

Everyone knew there role from the start of training camp, there was no drama anywhere on the team, that was the key.

woodson has lost the respect of the team for a number of reason

1)chris smith signing

2)going into training camp with out solidifying your starting line up

3)telling your team that JR/shump will be battling for a starters spot despite Jr being injured and suspended

4)starting priggs the 2nd preseason game despite him saying he has every intention of going big this season

5)2 wks into the season and your still talking about shump and jr are battling for the starting sg spot(wtf)

6)Playing kmart and Amare token minutes

7)players meeting..really, thats the Number 1 sign that the coach has lost the team.

8)your starting line up is base on opponent..really, with all the chemistry issues you have already

9)Not being able to stand up to management and have more control over the roster moves

10)And finally, and more importantly, your no close to figuring out players role then you were 8 wks ago.

Doomed

I'll admit it's not a good sign. Gotta also blame Dolan for this mess. Dolan as an owner can provide a strong, supportive and nurturing environment of one based on fear where Woody is making bad decisions or even not being decisive due to fear about his job.

Whatever the real reason is, Woody didn't come into this season with the confidence of his convictions like last year. It's like he scrapped the playbook and style of last year but without any clue what he'd replace that all with. No idea how he was gonna use these players. It's strange.

All he has to do is watch some game tape from last year and look to create that kind of environment now. Players were confident and sure of their roles and Woody had a handle on his rotations.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm afraid I have to blame Woody. He knew more than anyone how much it helped to have Kidd out there making the right decision with the ball. Notice how much better the passing was last year and the purpose of that passing was to lead to a basket at the hoop, open jumper or ISO in great position. We've seen NONE of that this year and surely at least some of that should carry over from last year. Prigs was able to be similar to Kidd in that role of ball mover, but this year they aren't running the same sets with spacing, a basic PnR, player movement and then swinging the ball. That is 100% Woody's fault.

Everyone knew there role from the start of training camp, there was no drama anywhere on the team, that was the key.

woodson has lost the respect of the team for a number of reason

1)chris smith signing

2)going into training camp with out solidifying your starting line up

3)telling your team that JR/shump will be battling for a starters spot despite Jr being injured and suspended

4)starting priggs the 2nd preseason game despite him saying he has every intention of going big this season

5)2 wks into the season and your still talking about shump and jr are battling for the starting sg spot(wtf)

6)Playing kmart and Amare token minutes

7)players meeting..really, thats the Number 1 sign that the coach has lost the team.

8)your starting line up is base on opponent..really, with all the chemistry issues you have already

9)Not being able to stand up to management and have more control over the roster moves

10)And finally, and more importantly, your no close to figuring out players role then you were 8 wks ago.

Doomed

I'll admit it's not a good sign. Gotta also blame Dolan for this mess. Dolan as an owner can provide a strong, supportive and nurturing environment of one based on fear where Woody is making bad decisions or even not being decisive due to fear about his job.

Whatever the real reason is, Woody didn't come into this season with the confidence of his convictions like last year. It's like he scrapped the playbook and style of last year but without any clue what he'd replace that all with. No idea how he was gonna use these players. It's strange.

All he has to do is watch some game tape from last year and look to create that kind of environment now. Players were confident and sure of their roles and Woody had a handle on his rotations.

Weather he's getting pressure from management or not, he has to be a head coach and stand up for what he believes in. If you want to play 9 guys, then play 9 guys and stick to you guns..players will respect you more.

If management is forcing your hand, then do exactly like MDA did, walk the fck out with your 54 wins, and your image intact.

In training camp i kept reading how he would give the team the day off, this is after a lost..Are you serious..

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm afraid I have to blame Woody. He knew more than anyone how much it helped to have Kidd out there making the right decision with the ball. Notice how much better the passing was last year and the purpose of that passing was to lead to a basket at the hoop, open jumper or ISO in great position. We've seen NONE of that this year and surely at least some of that should carry over from last year. Prigs was able to be similar to Kidd in that role of ball mover, but this year they aren't running the same sets with spacing, a basic PnR, player movement and then swinging the ball. That is 100% Woody's fault.

Everyone knew there role from the start of training camp, there was no drama anywhere on the team, that was the key.

woodson has lost the respect of the team for a number of reason

1)chris smith signing

2)going into training camp with out solidifying your starting line up

3)telling your team that JR/shump will be battling for a starters spot despite Jr being injured and suspended

4)starting priggs the 2nd preseason game despite him saying he has every intention of going big this season

5)2 wks into the season and your still talking about shump and jr are battling for the starting sg spot(wtf)

6)Playing kmart and Amare token minutes

7)players meeting..really, thats the Number 1 sign that the coach has lost the team.

8)your starting line up is base on opponent..really, with all the chemistry issues you have already

9)Not being able to stand up to management and have more control over the roster moves

10)And finally, and more importantly, your no close to figuring out players role then you were 8 wks ago.

Doomed

I'll admit it's not a good sign. Gotta also blame Dolan for this mess. Dolan as an owner can provide a strong, supportive and nurturing environment of one based on fear where Woody is making bad decisions or even not being decisive due to fear about his job.

Whatever the real reason is, Woody didn't come into this season with the confidence of his convictions like last year. It's like he scrapped the playbook and style of last year but without any clue what he'd replace that all with. No idea how he was gonna use these players. It's strange.

All he has to do is watch some game tape from last year and look to create that kind of environment now. Players were confident and sure of their roles and Woody had a handle on his rotations.

Weather he's getting pressure from management or not, he has to be a head coach and stand up for what he believes in. If you want to play 9 guys, then play 9 guys and stick to you guns..players will respect you more.

If management is forcing your hand, then do exactly like MDA did, walk the fck out with your 54 wins, and your image intact.

In training camp i kept reading how he would give the team the day off, this is after a lost..Are you serious..

D'Antoni didn't walk out with his dignity. He wasn't effective and for some reason the team wouldn't fire him. Woodson has compromised his integrity with the agent firing and keeping Chris Smith. I think he had to do it to stay employed but now that he has gone there it seems like he is being manipulated some by the owner. Firing the guy that brought him in and built the team for no apparent reason and then being told to keep Chris Smith has put him in a very compromised position. Not sure how long he tolerates it if the team isn't successful.

He likes vets, and now he has none of the kind he likes outside of Artest which i do think is a Woodson player.

He's made mistakes...imo the biggest one was announcing before training camp even began that certain spot were off limits to other players....notably starting pg.

And he wants JR to start, but cant justify it seeing how dismal he played today.

The team is a mess and it certainly isnt totally on coaching and offensive plays.

These guys dont seeme to have pride in the jersey they wear or even worse playing in front of their own crowd.

knickscity wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:I'm afraid I have to blame Woody. He knew more than anyone how much it helped to have Kidd out there making the right decision with the ball. Notice how much better the passing was last year and the purpose of that passing was to lead to a basket at the hoop, open jumper or ISO in great position. We've seen NONE of that this year and surely at least some of that should carry over from last year. Prigs was able to be similar to Kidd in that role of ball mover, but this year they aren't running the same sets with spacing, a basic PnR, player movement and then swinging the ball. That is 100% Woody's fault.

Everyone knew there role from the start of training camp, there was no drama anywhere on the team, that was the key.

woodson has lost the respect of the team for a number of reason

1)chris smith signing

2)going into training camp with out solidifying your starting line up

3)telling your team that JR/shump will be battling for a starters spot despite Jr being injured and suspended

4)starting priggs the 2nd preseason game despite him saying he has every intention of going big this season

5)2 wks into the season and your still talking about shump and jr are battling for the starting sg spot(wtf)

6)Playing kmart and Amare token minutes

7)players meeting..really, thats the Number 1 sign that the coach has lost the team.

8)your starting line up is base on opponent..really, with all the chemistry issues you have already

9)Not being able to stand up to management and have more control over the roster moves

10)And finally, and more importantly, your no close to figuring out players role then you were 8 wks ago.

Doomed

I'll admit it's not a good sign. Gotta also blame Dolan for this mess. Dolan as an owner can provide a strong, supportive and nurturing environment of one based on fear where Woody is making bad decisions or even not being decisive due to fear about his job.

Whatever the real reason is, Woody didn't come into this season with the confidence of his convictions like last year. It's like he scrapped the playbook and style of last year but without any clue what he'd replace that all with. No idea how he was gonna use these players. It's strange.

All he has to do is watch some game tape from last year and look to create that kind of environment now. Players were confident and sure of their roles and Woody had a handle on his rotations.

Weather he's getting pressure from management or not, he has to be a head coach and stand up for what he believes in. If you want to play 9 guys, then play 9 guys and stick to you guns..players will respect you more.

If management is forcing your hand, then do exactly like MDA did, walk the fck out with your 54 wins, and your image intact.

In training camp i kept reading how he would give the team the day off, this is after a lost..Are you serious..

D'Antoni didn't walk out with his dignity. He wasn't effective and for some reason the team wouldn't fire him. Woodson has compromised his integrity with the agent firing and keeping Chris Smith. I think he had to do it to stay employed but now that he has gone there it seems like he is being manipulated some by the owner. Firing the guy that brought him in and built the team for no apparent reason and then being told to keep Chris Smith has put him in a very compromised position. Not sure how long he tolerates it if the team isn't successful.

Do you really think woody had a choice of his players this eason? I dont think so.

He likes vets, and now he has none of the kind he likes outside of Artest which i do think is a Woodson player.

He's made mistakes...imo the biggest one was announcing before training camp even began that certain spot were off limits to other players....notably starting pg.

And he wants JR to start, but cant justify it seeing how dismal he played today.

The team is a mess and it certainly isnt totally on coaching and offensive plays.

These guys dont seeme to have pride in the jersey they wear or even worse playing in front of their own crowd.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:The Knicks had a gimmick offense last year as well....they didnt run those plays night in and night out.

The difference this year and last is simple.

Nobody is performing above their norm...there is no 50% from 3 shooting Jason Kidd to start november.

No inspired play from Sheed, No Ronnie Brewer early contributions....Even Novak was killing early.

They were blowing teams out early last year with the three ball, now they have guys trying to shoot threes that honestly shouldnt.

Blame the coach...cool...but the team aint that good.

I'm tired of your trope about this team playing gimmick BB last year. You must not have watched all the videos I posted cuz if you did you would see that the team was making use of a LOT more actual BB plays than they have shown so far. We all know that the team had times when they weren't executing and relied on ISO too much, but last year there in fact was a lot of good BB execution.

As for players performing above the norm, this year the issue is too many guys playing BELOW their career avg's. So your claim that the "team aint that good" doesn't hold up if we're getting career norm production from the key players on the team.

The team was winning last year because they were executing at a high level. That leads to great shots and high shooting %. That's not a gimmick. You're the reason I posted the videos to prove that there was TONS of real plays being run, off ball motions, spacing, crisp passing going on. They weren't just winging it out there. They ran Horns, Triple Screens, Scissor hand off plays and mixed in simple screen and curl, give and go etc. There's video evidence of these plays. Last year, according to Synergy, 22% of New York’s plays ended as a result of a pick and roll and 16% were isolations. That leaves 62% of their scoring coming from other means. So you can't be right that it was a gimmick offense. Sure the Knicks took a TON of 3's, but that was the design of the offense and with the ball and player movement it was a good offense. They didn't struggle until they stopped getting that ball and player movement and went even more with ISO plays.

When they hit them...they won, when they didnt, they lost.....thats a gimmick.

The main reason why the team doesnt run the scissor play for instance is because no one can really drive into the lane....thats the purpose of it, and now there's no chandler to be a roll amn since no one else is capable....same with the screen plays.

i dont even see why you're upset, you posted videos of the Knicks shooting a ton of threes, everyone knows the knicks were a jump shooting team....thats a gimmick.

And yeah, obviously since they arent playing their norm...they arent that good....most already knew this.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:The Knicks had a gimmick offense last year as well....they didnt run those plays night in and night out.

The difference this year and last is simple.

Nobody is performing above their norm...there is no 50% from 3 shooting Jason Kidd to start november.

No inspired play from Sheed, No Ronnie Brewer early contributions....Even Novak was killing early.

They were blowing teams out early last year with the three ball, now they have guys trying to shoot threes that honestly shouldnt.

Blame the coach...cool...but the team aint that good.

I'm tired of your trope about this team playing gimmick BB last year. You must not have watched all the videos I posted cuz if you did you would see that the team was making use of a LOT more actual BB plays than they have shown so far. We all know that the team had times when they weren't executing and relied on ISO too much, but last year there in fact was a lot of good BB execution.

As for players performing above the norm, this year the issue is too many guys playing BELOW their career avg's. So your claim that the "team aint that good" doesn't hold up if we're getting career norm production from the key players on the team.

The team was winning last year because they were executing at a high level. That leads to great shots and high shooting %. That's not a gimmick. You're the reason I posted the videos to prove that there was TONS of real plays being run, off ball motions, spacing, crisp passing going on. They weren't just winging it out there. They ran Horns, Triple Screens, Scissor hand off plays and mixed in simple screen and curl, give and go etc. There's video evidence of these plays. Last year, according to Synergy, 22% of New York’s plays ended as a result of a pick and roll and 16% were isolations. That leaves 62% of their scoring coming from other means. So you can't be right that it was a gimmick offense. Sure the Knicks took a TON of 3's, but that was the design of the offense and with the ball and player movement it was a good offense. They didn't struggle until they stopped getting that ball and player movement and went even more with ISO plays.

When you get through, they lead the league in threes by a wide margin, whether through a play or through iso...they shot alot of threes...that was their main offense.

When they hit them...they won, when they didnt, they lost.....thats a gimmick.

The main reason why the team doesnt run the scissor play for instance is because no one can really drive into the lane....thats the purpose of it, and now there's no chandler to be a roll amn since no one else is capable....same with the screen plays.

i dont even see why you're upset, you posted videos of the Knicks shooting a ton of threes, everyone knows the knicks were a jump shooting team....thats a gimmick.

And yeah, obviously since they arent playing their norm...they arent that good....most already knew this.

You don't know what you're talking about as unusual. We have practically the same players from last year starting the games. They most certainly could run the Scissor hand off if they wanted. Why should Felton or Shump not be able to drive off those plays as they did last year? It would be good for THJ too and now that JR is back eventually he could do it too.

You think it's easy to just shoot a ton of 3's all season when teams have film on you? It's not like teams just want to LET YOU SHOOT 3's. You have to be doing something right in order to get that many open 3's. That's what i'm trying to show your ignorant ass. If it was so easy to just get off a ton of 3's everyone would do it. You have to be moving defenders in such a way that it opens up those shots. After you hit 5 3's you think defenses will adjust? How about 10 of them? What i'm saying is that there was some good ball and player movement going on. You may not want to acknowledge it, but that's why I posted video to SHOW YOU what they were doing right.

You really dont understand the sport, teams dont respect gimmicks until forced to.

Lol at you, call me ignorant, but you think this team is good, and all it needs is plays and ball movement....they need talent and smarter players, then once you get that...upgrade the coach.

I dont think I've seen melo doubled like this all last year combined, dude cant even get a shot off now unless it's contested or over two or three defenders....i bet he's still waiting for the "space" bargs supposedly creates.

Thats because teams doubt the Knick can shoot....and so far...they cant.

I gave this team a window of around 50 wins, I might need to readjust and say 50 losses are possible.

I think your both right. In the beginning of last yr they ran plays. it made scrubs like brewer wide open. They got off to a fast 18-5 start. However, melo got hot and they started isoball and abandoned the plays. They ended the season with an 18-5 record by playing bad teams or good teams resting their players

Its clear that theyre not running anything, theres bad spacing and the pnrolls look awful. I blame woody for that