the knicks played much better than game 1 and still were blown out end to end with the nets toying with them. Marbury is a great player but he wasnt the key to changing the knicks fortunes. Marbury has already been on teams with much much better talent than the knicks will ever have and he couldnt win. people who compare him to J kidd using stats just dont know basketball. hes not j kidd hes not even in the same league as j kidd. he had some real good players in pheonix and all they could do is get an eigth seed and were way under .500 this year hes played with KG K Mart et al and he ahsnt won. Its not a mystery to why the nets started winning big when they acquired kidd for marbury. i knew it when we traded for him of course marbury had a few games that make you think whoa for a minute but the bottom line is he is not a guy who will carry you and the knicks have completely over rated what they have in the frontline of their squad.

we are relying on penny and h2O as big time pieces of the future??? Nazr?????? TT will still be 15 and 5 no matter what. hes just as likely to go 4-14 as 10-17

the stigma of "we have to make the playoffs at any cost" kills the team and no a record of 39 wins and 43 losses with a quick knockout punch in which you were embarassed is not a successful season. Now isiah has blown his entire wad unless dolan continues to spend. this team is mediocre and OLDER and anyone who cant see it is wearing rose colored glases. this trade for marbury sent us back in time, i said it at the time of the trade and its apparent even to the most optimist fan. you want to find something anything to think another way but i cant find it. we needed to rebuild when ewing went another direction, weve had several opportunties to bite the bullet but we just wont do it and we will SUFFER fir it.

Great post. I agree with you completely. Marbury is NOT and will never be as good as Jason Kidd. I could care less about stats. I want wins, and living or dieing by Marbury is NOT a smart strategy. That said, I do have faith in Isiah and believe that he will do the best job he can retooling this roster. But had we rebuilt, I'd be damned if our future wouldn't have been a helluva lot brighter.

Posted by BRIGGS:

the knicks played much better than game 1 and still were blown out end to end with the nets toying with them. Marbury is a great player but he wasnt the key to changing the knicks fortunes. Marbury has already been on teams with much much better talent than the knicks will ever have and he couldnt win. people who compare him to J kidd using stats just dont know basketball. hes not j kidd hes not even in the same league as j kidd. he had some real good players in pheonix and all they could do is get an eigth seed and were way under .500 this year hes played with KG K Mart et al and he ahsnt won. Its not a mystery to why the nets started winning big when they acquired kidd for marbury. i knew it when we traded for him of course marbury had a few games that make you think whoa for a minute but the bottom line is he is not a guy who will carry you and the knicks have completely over rated what they have in the frontline of their squad.

we are relying on penny and h2O as big time pieces of the future??? Nazr?????? TT will still be 15 and 5 no matter what. hes just as likely to go 4-14 as 10-17

the stigma of "we have to make the playoffs at any cost" kills the team and no a record of 39 wins and 43 losses with a quick knockout punch in which you were embarassed is not a successful season. Now isiah has blown his entire wad unless dolan continues to spend. this team is mediocre and OLDER and anyone who cant see it is wearing rose colored glases. this trade for marbury sent us back in time, i said it at the time of the trade and its apparent even to the most optimist fan. you want to find something anything to think another way but i cant find it. we needed to rebuild when ewing went another direction, weve had several opportunties to bite the bullet but we just wont do it and we will SUFFER fir it.

whoa! back up. i don't think anyone on this board said that marbury is better than kidd. kidd is the best point guard in the league right now and when he retires maybe one of the top ten in history. but i will say this, marbury is probably the second best point guard in the league. are we going to pout and be upset that new jersey has a better point guard? why? 28 other teams are in the same boat. a couple of weeks ago, briggs, you said the roster needs tweaking by adding athletic big men like stromile swift and drafting in the second round smartly. after two playoff losses against the nets who we all know are still superior to us even with houston and t thomas we need to step back and rebuild? i always respect your opinion but this is a little overboard. you did make a decent point about changing too much in one season. but if you look at the big picture, our goal was to make the playoffs so phoenix will not get a lottery pick. we did. now we can look towards the summer to get more athletic which we will. as i said before, this summer is when the real deal starts. and trading a great point guard, a position we have been coveting for years should'nt be an option.

who is saying we should stand pat? Why is 35 points a game thats sitting on the bench a non factor in evaluating this team's performance in the playoffs?

The Bulls have proven you dont rebuild and win with youth. I strongly suspect this team will be rebuilt, but you need good veteran players to win also.

We saw TT have a myriad of strong performances and clutch play and numerous huge 4th quarters. Are you really missing KVH that much? The more I think about that deal the more I like it. We got a 6'10 player thats 27 and can play 3 positions, is a superior athlete and has excellent skills, at the same time we got a great trading piece in Nazr.

Even on that note the only guy this franchise is commited too over the next 3-4 years is Marbury and thats it.

Did you really expect KVH, Deke, McDyess, Eisley, Harrington, Spoon, Shandon and Houston to get turned over in half a season and replaced with Grizzlies?

Have you ever considered decaff?

i think that in any business you have to continue to fairly re-evaluate things, especially in a fluid business like NBA basketball.

We are much further away that i anticipated, and i believe playoff basketball really speaks volumes of where your team really is. Look at teams like Miami who are very young and athletic, lebron james in Clev not including the young deep monster teams we have in front of us.

No tweaking this thing isnt going to do it--it needs to be broken down and rebuilt.

I CRINGE when i hear the names H2O and Penny being mentioned as saviours--these guys will be 34 next year--we dont know if H2O will ever be an 80 game player again-dikembe is 40 something isiah made this whole shing ding about vin baker

you have to realize when something isnt going to work the faster you realize it the quicker you dig yourself out. and we have dug ourselves into the ground financially

are you on DOPE? Miami was TERRIBLE until a funny thing happened... they got healthy.

Who says Penny or anyone else is a savior? I'm saying TT is our most versatile player, and Houston is a 20 point a game scorer and one of the best shooters in the NBA. Thats a non-factor?

It gets old. you dont even answer to peoples responses. There is no reason to believe that Houston doesnt come back as he already did and played at a high level until he had a nasty collision to the same injury he hurried back from in the first place. This guy has an EASY 5 years left. His game isnt based on speed or athleticism, its based on a killer J.

We dumped KVH and got an essentially a player of equal value PLUS a nice trading piece to use for a draft pick or package.

And Dermaar, Sweetney (the guy you said WE MUST DRAFT last year) and Frank have all shown more than just flashes of being good NBA players.

But this gets repeated in almost every one of your posts because your rants are reduntant

miami got fd as bad as any team with what happened to alonzo


what did riley do he bit the bullet and brought in two high draft picks and one nice FA and now has a very talented athletic core. miami is light years ahead of the knicks with less than half the payroll.

who cares if H@o is healthy the guy is going to be 34. we are NOT winning with H2O TT +Nazr are just mediocre players.

"who cares if H@o is healthy the guy is going to be 34. we are NOT winning with H2O TT +Nazr are just mediocre players."

Didnt you say yourself Nazr = tradbait?

Do you really think the current Knick roster is what Isiah came in here to do? Seriously... how does someone that claims (and at times) demonstrates great basketball knowledge constantly post on 100% emotion?

Thats right, riles bit the bullett and sucked it up. Cleared up space to get odom, and drafted nice.

Laydog was on the right track but Dolan hit the panic button and freaked out. Granted, laydog did some awful moves to patch things up, and the knicks never allowed itself to clean it out and rebuild.

After the hype of Marbs and Isiah, we don't have a huge upside. We are better after the moves, but we had a bigger (and largely unknown) upside with Dice coming off the books, Lampe and Milos in the pipeline, and likely a lotto pick this year.


It would take years, but knick fans are not patient, they like the instant buzz and hype.

Its what it is, so I hope Isiah gets it right and we win sooner than later. This team needs to gell and find an identity. I doubt we trade marbs and go young, thats where we were coming from!

by the way I didnt ask you *WHY* you would draft a HS student. I asked how you can be *PATIENT* with a HS student that could take 4 years to show anything, but you cant be patient with a new GM for half a year.

The Knicks will never be under the cap, so why do you keep talking is if there is a chance they might. Before the Marbury trade, after the Marbury trade, there was NO WAY this team was getting under the cap. Houston, Anderson, Eisley, Weatherspoon, Van Horn; now instead of that we have Houston, Anderson, Penny, Marbury, Thomas. So enough with the talk of "Well maybe we could've gotten under the cap and then sign some quality free agents..." give me a break.

This talk about Miami is really absurd. Anthony Carter's agent (fishmike mentioned this) forgot to fill out necessary paperwork, he got cut, they had enough room for Odom. Without Odom, no playoffs. Butler has been terrible this year, the one shining piece on that team is Wade (minus Odom). They got him in the lottery. Where you can say Miami went a radically different route is beyond me. They lost more games than the Knicks did last year and got a better pick, and took a better player. They still have some bad contracts (Grant, Jones) on that team holding them back, and they basically fell to their position via good good good luck.

"he had some real good players in pheonix and all they could do is get an eigth seed and were way under .500 this year hes played with KG K Mart et al and he ahsnt won."

This is absurdly wrong. Kidd's better than Marbury, OK. Garnett's never won a playoff series, so you implying that since Marbury left KG has had great success is ridiculous. The last year Marbury was on the Nets was Martin's rookie year. He got hurt with around 20 games left. Kerry Kittles played ZERO games that year, and they didn't have Todd MacCulloch. So THAT is a moot point because you're comparing Kidd with Martin (2nd year), Kittles, and MacCulloch (and now Richard Jefferson) vs Kidd with a rookie Kenyon Martin. How is that a level comparison.

Isiah gave up too much to get Marbury, no doubt. Two first rounders and Lampe was a lot. I don't care about Vujanic. OK, that's beside the point. And though you always ignore this Briggs, you don't know what Colangelo was being offered. Several teams later made trades involving expiring contracts, theres a chance he was offered another deal and Isiah had to up the ante. Did he up it too much, yes, but that's what happens when you gamble.

How you don't like the foundation is beyond me. Sweetney has shown he can play. Marbury, its obvious, he just has nothing around him. DerMarr Johnson has shown he can play, and the fact that he isn't playing falls on the coach, not the organization or Dolan or Thomas. Frank Williams can play.

It's already been reported the Knicks might get Eddy Curry, that Jamal Crawford wants to play here, that Rasheed Wallace loves New York, etc. Perception, thats what Isiah has changed.

I agree too that they did things too fast. But you are hypocritical in that you say the Knicks did things too fast when you are judging them too fast. What if Isiah turns Nazr, Kurt, Frank, and Othella into Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, and Flip Murray. Young, athletic, talented players can be had without drafting.

For all your talk about rebuilding, I'd think you'd love the Bulls. They've rebuilt for, what is it, 5 years now?

You've judged Isiah on not even 6 months of work. Give him an offseason, give him another regular season. He obviously knows what hes doing. He's going out and getting the young, athletic players you'd like to see.

Nobody is saying with Houston and Tim Thomas the Knicks are winning an NBA Championship. What people are saying is a healthy Houston and Thomas give the Nets a run for their money, that they wouldn't be getting shelled like this.

Give it time, I know you'll come back and start telling me to take off my rose colored glasses but I think you need to stop pissing on your own Cheerios. If the Knicks got Kobe in the offseason and lost on a last second shot next year in game 7 you'd rant about how they need to rebuild (obviously that's not going to happen, its just an example). You've given Isiah 5 months to turn the franchise around.

AND FOR ALL those people defending Layden, man o man. He was rebuilding? Is this a joke? I seriously can't believe what I read sometimes. Becuase Majiec Lampe fell into his lap in round 2 and he had a disgruntled PG who is supposedly good in Europe who refused to sign with them he had plans in piece to rebuild? Give me a break.