NardDogNation wrote:My trio would be Cole Aldrich, Jeremy Tyler and Toure Murray. We need young big men, which Aldrich and Tyler provide in spades and Toure is versatile enough to play the PG, SG and SF. Because of that, Murray can fit more readily on the team, which would need a 3rd stringer at any one of those 3 positions.

Bingo. That's what I'm thinking now as well. Although if Diogu plays well (I have a feeling he will---this guy's never really caught on in the NBA thusfar but I like him. Former lottery pick -- he's far from a scrub) and Leslie plays better than he did in SL (where he wasn't terrible to be fair -- maybe the hip and whatever other ailments really did hold him back some), it's gonna be a very tough call..

Finestrg wrote:Grunwald out, Steve Mills in. Yawn...Look, did Grunny deserve that? No way, I agree with most -- the timing of this debacle was incredibly bad and the lack of loyalty shown by our owner for Grunny after the man came up with a pretty damn good off-season was equally perplexing but what are we gonna do? Par for the course with this buffoon really. Won't be the last head-scratcher we see outta Dolan... Looking to put this whole fiasco under the bridge quickly now...It's time for basketball! I liked Grunwald but never thought he was a mainstay GM for years to come anyway and I don't see that in Mills either. Thank God we at least still have Warkentien and Gabriel around to lean on for input...Hopefully, H2O winds up doing a good job here eventually in the role -- everyone has to start somewhere and I definitely think he's being groomed for it...2 positive things to take away from yesterday's Francesa interview with Mills -- (1) Mills said Isiah will not be coming back and (2) he'll be looking to upgrade/streamline his scouting/player evaluation departments into something more modern and effective. Says he wants to find a guy that not only has an eye for talent but also is well versed in the "money ball" side of things like number crunching and computer-based analytical data (Tom Penn maybe?).

Moving on -- we have about a month to go until showtime -- the most relevant thing we can talk about right now is who eventually makes the 15-man roster. Here are the locks:

5 - Chandler
4 - Bargnani
3 - Anthony
2 - Shumpert
1 - Felton
-----------------------
5 - Stoudemire*
4 - Martin
3 - Artest
2 - JR Smith*
1 - Udrih
-----------------------
Prigioni
Hardaway Jr.
?
?
?

*injured but still a rotation lock

Technically, there's 3 spots up for grabs. Here's the pool we've assembled to chose from:

Cole Aldrich
Ike Diogu
CJ Leslie
Toure Murry
Jeremy Tyler
Justin Brownlee
Josh Powell
Chris Smith

So who fills these spots and what should the criteria be exactly -- youth, upside, more depth at positions of concern (4/5, 2/3), guys that can help out right now? Probably a combination of all of these elements really. After going back and forth on it for days -- I'm still up in the air on it. Do we go with sure things like Aldrich and Diogu or do we take a chance on a guy like Tyler, who's inexperienced AND injured? Yet I still like Murry and even Leslie....Tyler's a guy I might be selling a little short and not giving enough credit to. I've been questioning whether Tyler deserves to make the team off only a few good SL games and now a broken foot, but maybe he does. He still needs some work and will have to be built back up when the foot heals but to be honest, he might be further along than I thought. Consider this youtube video of his D-League play from last year:

I mean, WOW...The plus size, the ability to play well with his back to the basket, the quick footwork (tends to get his feet tangled a bit at the end of a series of moves but that can be worked out eventually -- it's the fact that he actually attempts and executes such advanced moves for the most part that's the real eye-opener here. If we wind up keeping this guy, maybe we send him to work with Hakeem and foot the bill or we just hire Hakeem full-time for the year maybe to work with all our bigs on a regular basis), the combination of power & finesse, the ability to shoot it from mid-range -- I can definitely see now where some of you are coming from. Dude looks like a young Vin Baker in this video...Looks like there's a lot more potential here than I originally thought. I stand corrected.

But what do we do? If he takes a spot and can't go right away, along with STAT probably not being ready, is that the right move? Does that leave us too thin up front to start the year? Do we go with a more proven commodity like Diogu instead (if Diogu plays well coming up here in training camp)? And then what do we do with Aldrich? It'd be nice to finally have an able shot-blocker out there. Plus I think this guy can hold his own on the glass too...And then there's the extra wing we really could use -- do we go with Leslie and call it a day (acknowledging his athleticism and potential but knowing full well he's nowhere near a finished product) or do we take Toure Murry instead with the idea that THJ at 6'6" can fill in at the 3 where Murry plays 2 along with some backup point in an emergency? Maybe that eliminates the need for Leslie altogether and makes more sense. I dunno man...Quite a few questions regarding these last couple of spots and not a lot of easy answers. Interested to see how this all works itself out. Curious what everyone's take is on this..

Jeremy Tyler is a case where if the player went to college--in 2-3 years he wouldve been a top 10 draft pick and had millions in his pocket before he stepped on the floor.

BRIGGS wrote:
Jeremy Tyler is a case where if the player went to college--in 2-3 years he wouldve been a top 10 draft pick and had millions in his pocket before he stepped on the floor.

I hear ya, for the most part that's true. However, we've seen it go both ways. College usually helps development but there's evidence out there that has suggested otherwise. Occasionally you get someone like DeQuan Jones, a guy I'm very high on who didn't do much in college at all despite attending all 4 years and possessing a world of ability. College definitely didn't set that kid up to make millions at the next level, that's for sure...You can make a case that the Miami program let this kid Jones down in college. He should've been a star there... Jamelle Horne at Arizona--same thing. These are 2 guys that should've been built up so much more by their college programs but weren't (Jones even moreso than Horne). These are just 2 off the top of my head. If we dig deeper, I'm sure we can come up with many other examples... Also, sometimes players stay too long in college and it actually winds up hurting them somewhat -- think of guys like Craig Brackins at Iowa State and Willie Warren outta Oklahoma. Especially Warren -- people had that kid going in the lottery for the '09 draft; he decides to stay in school an extra year, doesn't play nearly as well his 2010 season and saw his stock plummet from lottery to the 2nd round...Brackins, same thing to a degree around the same time -- surefire lottery pick in 2009, stayed for his junior season where he underperformed and saw his stock take a nosedive (he still went high 20s in the draft but still). Both of those guys could've went higher and made even more money than they did but college wound up hindered them. Both guys aren't even in the NBA right now. Also consider the non-effect not going to college had for Brandon Jennings. He opted for Europe instead and despite playing erratically, still garnered a high selection in the draft and he's turned out to be a better-than-average NBA PG making $7-8mm per (even though I don't particularly care for him as a player)....

JT's case is a little different -- this kid opted for Japan over college yet never dominated that league like a lot of people thought he would've/should've. Then he has the cup of coffee with GS and looked pretty raw. And during his entire DL career thusfar (including last year's 12 game stint + 6 playoff games) he's played well (averaged something like 17-18 ppg, 8.8 rebs and under a blk per) but again, never dominated. Not sure what any of this really means. Is he a limited potential big man that may never be great (I'm sure he's been flagged as such by many talent evaluators thusfar----I've certainly wondered why he hasn't dominated subpar leagues like these myself) or is he a late bloomer that wasn't used right in Japan (remember though -- he played for Bob Hill over there and he had to have been one of if not the biggest/strongest player in Japan at the time) and maybe not used enough in the DL despite some solid production (curious why he averaged under 30 mins in the DL)... Hassan Whiteside, a good player to compare Tyler to, went over to China recently and DOMINATED...Have gotten to like JT more than I once did though and now think the Knicks should probably stick with him.

Point taken -- college over a 2-4 year span probably would've been a better choice for Tyler and it probably is the best choice for most. And I'm definitely not advocating against going to college in general -- my wife and I have 4-yr degrees and we will continue to mold and steer our 4-year-old son toward going to college, no matter what the cost, whether he's an athlete or not. Point here though is it's not the be-all, end-all in terms of a young basketball player progressing toward the NBA and big money.

Markji wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:My trio would be Cole Aldrich, Jeremy Tyler and Toure Murray. We need young big men, which Aldrich and Tyler provide in spades and Toure is versatile enough to play the PG, SG and SF. Because of that, Murray can fit more readily on the team, which would need a 3rd stringer at any one of those 3 positions.

My thoughts also. Those 3 are right now who I would take.

However, training camp starts today; we have 7 Pre-season games. The start of the season is 4 weeks from tomorrow. A lot can happen in 4 weeks so I would wait and see before pre-judging everyone. Diogu and CJ Leslie could surprise us. I believe Aldrich had some knee problems earlier??? (does anyone remember if this is correct???? so lets see how he does. If he is fine, then I would definitely like him as back-up center to Tyson.

Agreed. Thing with Tyler though -- he's hurt and isn't going to be competing head-to-head for a spot against these guys. All we really have to go on is the few SL games he played well in for us and the 20-30 someodd DL games he's played in total. Can't really look at his time in Israel and Japan -- he didn't do enough there and only got limited playing time. Plus he may not be ready for the regular season. It's complicated with JT a little bit...I'm actually torn on this guy now -- he has better ability and potential than I once thought but then part of me thinks Ike Diogu may be a better choice to start the season with. If Diogu plays well during training camp/pre-season this is gonna be one tough decision. Plus, I like Aldrich and think he fits in nicely here. I want him too. Decisions, decisions...