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CrushAlot
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7/4/2013  12:07 AM
The Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their team last year. Seven of those pick were top 5 or higher. For all of the let Smith walk and sign a d leaguer talk, I think the reality is the nba is a league where only a few make it and most were stars their entire careers. There are exceptions but if you have a talent that is only 27, erratic and flawed, that can put up 18 and 5 I don't think you just let that guy walk with the intention of finding a similar talent for the vet mini or undrafted rookie mini. It just doesn't happen very often. Counting on finding talents like Prigs, Cope and Lin annually is unrealistic in my opinion.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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Knixkik
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7/4/2013  12:12 AM
It's 100% true. It's too hard to find this great talent. You do what you can to retain your top talent and figure out how to make it work.
BRIGGS
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7/4/2013  12:18 AM
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their team last year. Seven of those pick were top 5 or higher. For all of the let Smith walk and sign a d leaguer talk, I think the reality is the nba is a league where only a few make it and most were stars their entire careers. There are exceptions but if you have a talent that is only 27, erratic and flawed, that can put up 18 and 5 I don't think you just let that guy walk with the intention of finding a similar talent for the vet mini or undrafted rookie mini. It just doesn't happen very often. Counting on finding talents like Prigs, Cope and Lin annually is unrealistic in my opinion.

The spurs seem to do it all the time. You're also not weighing j r smiths negAtives. Ill be the first one to say I personally flip flop on jr smith. Why because its who he is. He's a Jekyll Hyde player. And lets put the numbers down for one second. Would it be better to have a higher character player who plays team ball more efficiently but avg and cost less. Jr takes a lot of shots. So his consistency is important but he's chronically inconsistent w character issues

RIP Crushalot😞
CrushAlot
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7/4/2013  12:29 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their team last year. Seven of those pick were top 5 or higher. For all of the let Smith walk and sign a d leaguer talk, I think the reality is the nba is a league where only a few make it and most were stars their entire careers. There are exceptions but if you have a talent that is only 27, erratic and flawed, that can put up 18 and 5 I don't think you just let that guy walk with the intention of finding a similar talent for the vet mini or undrafted rookie mini. It just doesn't happen very often. Counting on finding talents like Prigs, Cope and Lin annually is unrealistic in my opinion.

The spurs seem to do it all the time. You're also not weighing j r smiths negAtives. Ill be the first one to say I personally flip flop on jr smith. Why because its who he is. He's a Jekyll Hyde player. And lets put the numbers down for one second. Would it be better to have a higher character player who plays team ball more efficiently but avg and cost less. Jr takes a lot of shots. So his consistency is important but he's chronically inconsistent w character issues

The Spurs can wait for their guys to develop. They have been trend setters in things like the euro stash and their world wide scouting was way ahead of other teams. But they are not finding guys as free agents that will sign minimum deals to take the place of a guy like JR that put up 18-5 on a 54 win team that won their division. That is what some are suggesting the Knicks should do with Smith.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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7/4/2013  1:17 AM
Manu was not great in the playoffs and finals. DWade was far from being the player most expected in the playoffs and finals. Parker had his issues due to a leg injury, which slowed him down and made him play up and down. Overall we see other teams with their 2nd or 3rd option not playing up to par, but depending on the REST of the team they are able to survive it more or less. Our problem wasn't so much that JR had performance issues but that the team on whole wasn't strong enough to survive his poor performance.

People can hate on JR or other Knicks moves like AB, but the idea is to try and strengthen this team so that we can survive a key player having a poor performance. We didn't have enough support this year. STAT being hurt really did drag things down. Add in some mistakes by Woodson in not using more of his roster, but overall it was clear the team needed more firepower. That's what management is trying to do and re-signing JR is a big part of that. If you get him back and then continue to add to the talent base with guys like AB, T Jr., CJ and maybe Brand, Nate or Brooks, that's going to really help to increase this teams chances in the playoffs. I like what the team is doing so far. Just hope it all works out.
BigDaddyG
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7/4/2013  3:06 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/4/2013  3:11 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks had 9 former lottery picks on their team last year. Seven of those pick were top 5 or higher. For all of the let Smith walk and sign a d leaguer talk, I think the reality is the nba is a league where only a few make it and most were stars their entire careers. There are exceptions but if you have a talent that is only 27, erratic and flawed, that can put up 18 and 5 I don't think you just let that guy walk with the intention of finding a similar talent for the vet mini or undrafted rookie mini. It just doesn't happen very often. Counting on finding talents like Prigs, Cope and Lin annually is unrealistic in my opinion.

The spurs seem to do it all the time. You're also not weighing j r smiths negAtives. Ill be the first one to say I personally flip flop on jr smith. Why because its who he is. He's a Jekyll Hyde player. And lets put the numbers down for one second. Would it be better to have a higher character player who plays team ball more efficiently but avg and cost less. Jr takes a lot of shots. So his consistency is important but he's chronically inconsistent w character issues


The Spurs don't find players as talented like JR in the draft all the time. They've gotten lucky a few times: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/SAS/draft.html What the Spurs have been good at doing is finding role players who fit their style of play. But it's still a crap shoot to draft guys who can even stay in the league. There may be a few gems in the DLeague, but the reality is that most of those dude will be playing in another country, if they're still playing at all.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
nyvector16
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7/4/2013  5:38 AM
Kyle Korver got 4 years at 24 Million and JR is more valuable in my opinion.
I just hope that it is a team option after the 2nd.
If it is not a team option after 2nd, then I hope they have some reassurances from Melo that locking up JR long term is something that fits in with the plans for his next contract.
earthmansurfer
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7/4/2013  5:46 AM
Well, with Bargs as another scoring option (not to mention Tim Jr.) that is going to take pressure off both Melo and JR Smith. Stat will be back as well.
Things might really fall into place.

That said, I have to agree with Briggs, you have to consider the negatives with JR. But, he turned a big corner last year and I don't think it was for a contract, because he wouldn't be resigning here if it was.
The more he learns to play within our system the better a placer he is. And the more the coach learns to stop letting him shoot when he is off (e.g. put in Tim Jr or Bargs even if the matchup is there.) the better we are.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Sangfroid
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7/4/2013  11:05 AM
Everyone discounts the benefits that SA has. True, they have the continuity of a successful coach and a developed scouting system firmly in place, overseas as well as stateside. Their real luck began with the injury to David Robinson, which allowed them to get the Tim Duncan pick. It's easy after that. They also benefit from being in the small market media that isn't clamoring for constant change, whether it be players or coaches. Wilkens and Chaney had .500 records in their chances to wear the coaching hat. They were promptly removed for the next best thing.
"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
loweyecue
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7/4/2013  11:44 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:Well, with Bargs as another scoring option (not to mention Tim Jr.) that is going to take pressure off both Melo and JR Smith. Stat will be back as well.
Things might really fall into place.

That said, I have to agree with Briggs, you have to consider the negatives with JR. But, he turned a big corner last year and I don't think it was for a contract, because he wouldn't be resigning here if it was.The more he learns to play within our system the better a placer he is. And the more the coach learns to stop letting him shoot when he is off (e.g. put in Tim Jr or Bargs even if the matchup is there.) the better we are.

Why do you say that? Is there any real evidence someone had offered him more plus a job for his completely useless brother? But I agree a lot of the issues we saw with JR were the results of bad coaching. There was no control, accountability or anything. I am not thrilled with a 4 year contract, but we could have done worse. Dude's decent value at this price. I didn't believe there was a cap clearing plan for 2015 just because people on the board trying to justify the Bargnani trade said so. To me the most frustrating thing about this organization is that except for the few years with Donnie, we have never had a goal or a sense of purpose since the Ewing/VanGundy days. It's always some spur of the moment thinking followed by a quick trigger and then years of bad rationalizing from the fans. There's NEVER anything to look forward to except more mediocrity. We were a marquee franchise that Dolan/Isiah and their buddies have successfully exploited year after yearas cheap marketing gimmick.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
loweyecue
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7/4/2013  11:46 AM
Sangfroid wrote:Everyone discounts the benefits that SA has. True, they have the continuity of a successful coach and a developed scouting system firmly in place, overseas as well as stateside. Their real luck began with the injury to David Robinson, which allowed them to get the Tim Duncan pick. It's easy after that. They also benefit from being in the small market media that isn't clamoring for constant change, whether it be players or coaches. Wilkens and Chaney had .500 records in their chances to wear the coaching hat. They were promptly removed for the next best thing.

The reason their fans dont clamor for change is they actually have a plan that they are executing. We have no plan, no direction and we just throw darts at the wall to see what sticks.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
earthmansurfer
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7/4/2013  11:51 AM
loweyecue wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Well, with Bargs as another scoring option (not to mention Tim Jr.) that is going to take pressure off both Melo and JR Smith. Stat will be back as well.
Things might really fall into place.

That said, I have to agree with Briggs, you have to consider the negatives with JR. But, he turned a big corner last year and I don't think it was for a contract, because he wouldn't be resigning here if it was.The more he learns to play within our system the better a placer he is. And the more the coach learns to stop letting him shoot when he is off (e.g. put in Tim Jr or Bargs even if the matchup is there.) the better we are.

Why do you say that? Is there any real evidence someone had offered him more plus a job for his completely useless brother? But I agree a lot of the issues we saw with JR were the results of bad coaching. There was no control, accountability or anything. I am not thrilled with a 4 year contract, but we could have done worse. Dude's decent value at this price. I didn't believe there was a cap clearing plan for 2015 just because people on the board trying to justify the Bargnani trade said so. To me the most frustrating thing about this organization is that except for the few years with Donnie, we have never had a goal or a sense of purpose since the Ewing/VanGundy days. It's always some spur of the moment thinking followed by a quick trigger and then years of bad rationalizing from the fans. There's NEVER anything to look forward to except more mediocrity. We were a marquee franchise that Dolan/Isiah and their buddies have successfully exploited year after yearas cheap marketing gimmick.

I can only go by what publications say and mostly they say he can get more than we can offer him. (7 - 9 or so mill). Perhaps that is wrong but it is the consensus.
The good thing is his contract (if he produces at all) will be easily tradable. We might be able to use it to get a max player in 2015 (or is it 16) instead of a team losing a player for nothing.
Whether or not there was a clap clearing move, it is what happened, so I'm just going by that. JR has so much talent, if he can play (I should say "shoot") with more control and keep driving lots (great finisher), he really can be an All-Star, not kidding. The problem is getting him to focus and be consistent.

I agree - frustrating organization. And with moves such as Bargs, at least he has some talent. At least he can probably play MUCH better here than in Toronto. We'll see and don't get me wrong - I'm not 100% on the trade but it is a pretty good risk considering we are capped out.

My biggest disappointment thus far was not in bringing Lin back (and then signing Novak, Kidd and Camby). That is not looking so good right now...
I just hope management eventually gets it right, even if by dumb luck or chance...

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
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