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Could Mike D'Antoni be reunited with his dead horse, Secretariat?
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ChuckBuck
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6/10/2013  9:24 AM
CP3 and Dwight to Houston, Lin and others maybe included in trade.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/22380694/report-dwight-howard-and-chris-paul-could-both-be-houston-targets


The Houston Rockets have been searching for multiple stars to put on their team since the combination of Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming broke down. They've sought big-name free agents like Chris Bosh back in 2010, but didn't have any success bringing in a star for their team until they traded for James Harden right before the 2012-13 season. With Harden as their current franchise player, they're looking to bring in more stars to play with him in hopes of building their own super team.

It's already been reported they have their sights on upcoming free-agent center Dwight Howard this summer and he's considering that playing situation for the next step in his career. But Jonathan Feigen of the Houston Chronicle reported that Howard won't be enough for them. They're also reportedly targeting Chris Paul to be their point guard.

Dwight Howard will not be the only object of the Rockets' free-agent affections, and the Los Angeles Lakers center has not been the only subject of their intensive preparations for next month's sales pitches.

Howard has generated by far the most attention as a Rockets free-agent target, but the team plans a similar and simultaneous pursuit of Los Angeles Clippers guard Chris Paul, a person with knowledge of the Rockets' thinking said. According to another individual familiar with the team's plans, they are targets No. 1 and 1A.

The difference is there have been far more indications Howard, a 6-11 center, will be receptive to the Rockets' recruiting efforts. Although it is too early to know if Paul, a 6-0 guard, is disinterested or keeping his thoughts private, the Rockets have gone through detailed preparations to chase both.

If the Rockets were able to pull that off, they'd certainly be all set for having stars on their team. The tricky part is trying to figure out if they can even feasibly do this. As of right now, the Rockets have roughly $54.9 million committed in salary for next season. With the cap expected to be around $58.5 million next season, that leaves only $3.6 million to get the two most sought-after free agents this summer.

Houston has a team option for Francisco Garcia at $6.4 million and a non-fully guaranteed deal with Carlos Delfino for $3 million. If they decline the option on Garcia and waive Delfino, that moves their cap space to $13 million. They can save another $2.5 million by waiving Aaron Brooks and his non-fully guaranteed contract for next season as well. Now, we're talking $15.5 million.

There are still mathematical problems here with trying to find the $39.2 million it would take to bring in both Howard and Paul for next season. Howard's contract is eligible to begin at $20.5 million and Paul's next deal would start at $18.7 million. They can clear another $3.5 million by trading Thomas Robinson for a second-round pick or two or even a future first-round pick if they can get lucky enough.

That gives the team roughly $19 million there, which can hover around $20 million if they waive Greg Smith, James Anderson, and Patrick Beverley. However, that's not fully necessary to be able to afford the contract of Paul.

Let's say $18.7 million goes toward CP3 for the Rockets. Now, they have to figure out a sign-and-trade deal with the Lakers in order to bring in Howard. The Lakers could ask Metta World Peace to use his early termination option on his contract and then re-sign him for lower money per season but for multiple seasons in order to save money and try to get under the luxury tax apron ($4 million over the luxury tax).

Then they could acquire Jeremy Lin and Omer Asik, with maybe a couple of their rookies from this past season (Terrence Jones, Donatas Montiejunas, or Royce White), and sign Howard to the Rockets in a sign-and-trade deal. It would lower the Lakers under the luxury tax apron and give them some depth and versatility with their roster. But they'd also be losing a star player in the process. If the Lakers wanted to play hardball while accomodating a fellow Western Conference team, they could demand Chandler Parsons in the deal.

Lin would be reunited with Mike D'Antoni and we could have Linsanity 2.0 at the Staples Center. The Lakers would still maintain cap flexibility for the 2015 offseason and just hope LeBron James waits another season before opting out of his contract with the Miami Heat.

It's all a pretty simple plan


Linsanity lives! (Maybe)

AUTOADVERT
yellowboy90
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6/10/2013  9:28 AM
I would hope Ny could help Houston out and take Greg Smith or/and Robinson off their hands.
Knixkik
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6/10/2013  9:49 AM
I have to say, we would need to consider trading our first round pick and one of our non-guaranteed contracts for Thomas Robinson. He's a big-time rebounder and athlete with great potential. Would solve a lot of problems for this team and give us an injection of youth that would also contribute right away.
yellowboy90
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6/10/2013  9:54 AM
Knixkik wrote:I have to say, we would need to consider trading our first round pick and one of our non-guaranteed contracts for Thomas Robinson. He's a big-time rebounder and athlete with great potential. Would solve a lot of problems for this team and give us an injection of youth that would also contribute right away.

It would have to be a future 1st for Houston because they want cap space. However, I don't think he goes for a 1st anymore but some team will trade for him because they think he played away from the basket. If you are on your 3rd team in less than a year I don't think you are worth a future 1st.

AnubisADL
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6/10/2013  11:01 AM
Lol at either LA team signing and trading their star player.
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Nalod
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6/10/2013  11:24 AM
Lin and Nash?

What hapens to Lins contract if traded to a team over the cap? Does it blow up like it would have on the knicks?

MDA, LIn and Nash!

What else could could you ask for?

Relax MDA haters, the writer was just throwing it out as a theory.

NardDogNation
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6/10/2013  11:38 AM
I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Dagger
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6/10/2013  1:22 PM
NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.

CrushAlot
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6/10/2013  1:30 PM
I hope Morey gets what he gave when he tries to rid himself of salary. The guy totally took advantage of Walsh in the McGrady trade. I wouldn't mind if his 'poison pill' deals come back to bite him either.
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Osiris
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6/10/2013  1:34 PM
Dagger wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.


Agreed! Shump is the exact player a winning team needs. Other GMs know this and that is why they want him!
nixluva
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6/10/2013  1:47 PM
Seems just a bit too complicated to actually happen as described. It remains true that the deals proposed in the press almost never come true and we see deals get done that aren't expected. The truth is that teams are looking to make moves and that could benefit the Knicks if they want to be a team that helps facilitate a deal and maybe pick up a good player a team is looking to get rid of for a top talent.
NardDogNation
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6/10/2013  2:02 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/10/2013  2:05 PM
Dagger wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.

I like Shumpert, no doubt, but we tend to overvalue our young players and their impact on a game. Channing Frye was suppose to be a perennial all-star in the mold of a Rasheed Wallace. Gallinari was suppose to be Dirk. Eddy Curry was suppose to be Shaq. On and on, the inflated expectations go and none of those guys even came close to matching them. With that being said, I don't see Iman being much more than what Tony Allen currently is for the Grizzlies, which is pretty good, but never as good as what a guy like Gasol can give you. This "washed up" player averaged player efficiency rating better than +22 in the playoffs, posting 14ppg, 11.5rpg, 6.5apg. During the regular season, Gasol averaged 13.7ppg, 8.6rpg, 4.1apg and 1.2bpg while playing out of position in an offensive system that poorly compliments his skillset. By contrast, Shumpert had an effeciency rating of +11.75.

I hate the idea of giving up Shumpert but we're in win-now mode and need players capable of achieving this end. Mind you, I'd only endorse this deal if we can acquire Rajon Rondo, which I've coupled to this move in my head; without it, I'd reconsider moving Shumpert.

NardDogNation
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6/10/2013  2:07 PM
Osiris wrote:
Dagger wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.


Agreed! Shump is the exact player a winning team needs. Other GMs know this and that is why they want him!

And Gasol isn't the "exact player a winning team needs"? Just 3 seasons ago he was the no.2 man on a two-time NBA championship squad. He isn't that far removed from this level of play and his skillset allows him to have a longshelf life as a basketball player (See Kevin Garnett).

To the OP, I apologize for drifting off topic.

NardDogNation
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6/10/2013  2:12 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I have to say, we would need to consider trading our first round pick and one of our non-guaranteed contracts for Thomas Robinson. He's a big-time rebounder and athlete with great potential. Would solve a lot of problems for this team and give us an injection of youth that would also contribute right away.

It would have to be a future 1st for Houston because they want cap space. However, I don't think he goes for a 1st anymore but some team will trade for him because they think he played away from the basket. If you are on your 3rd team in less than a year I don't think you are worth a future 1st.

As a franchise in desperate need of "assets", I think we need to roll the dice on a guy like Thomas Robinson and/or Greg Smith. They may not immediately offer dividends but we should look at these type of players as "investments". Develop them in our 2nd unit and either allow them to materialize as key contributors in our rotation or as a tool to get individuals that can contribute to our rotation. If all they are asking for are non-guaranteed contracts and future 2nd round picks, we need to roll the dice. Remember that just a season ago, Robinson was considered by some to be a potential rival to Anthony Davis moving forward. He may never become that but, at worst, I see his career having a similar trajectory to Drew Gooden's, who has been a pretty solid player in the league.

martin
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6/10/2013  2:26 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
Dagger wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.

I like Shumpert, no doubt, but we tend to overvalue our young players and their impact on a game. Channing Frye was suppose to be a perennial all-star in the mold of a Rasheed Wallace. Gallinari was suppose to be Dirk. Eddy Curry was suppose to be Shaq. On and on, the inflated expectations go and none of those guys even came close to matching them. With that being said, I don't see Iman being much more than what Tony Allen currently is for the Grizzlies, which is pretty good, but never as good as what a guy like Gasol can give you. This "washed up" player averaged player efficiency rating better than +22 in the playoffs, posting 14ppg, 11.5rpg, 6.5apg. During the regular season, Gasol averaged 13.7ppg, 8.6rpg, 4.1apg and 1.2bpg while playing out of position in an offensive system that poorly compliments his skillset. By contrast, Shumpert had an effeciency rating of +11.75.

I hate the idea of giving up Shumpert but we're in win-now mode and need players capable of achieving this end. Mind you, I'd only endorse this deal if we can acquire Rajon Rondo, which I've coupled to this move in my head; without it, I'd reconsider moving Shumpert.

who is this "we" that overvalued young players. That is a sweeping statement and not even close to being true. And just because *someone* may have said something stupid doesn't mean it has anything to do with another young guy on the Knicks team.

Why do you equate Tony Allen and Shump, especially on offensive end? One can shoot from distance and the other can't. Also, you never trade a 23 year old with huge potential for someone 33 and in decline.

Amare and Gasol? Ew

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ChuckBuck
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6/10/2013  2:37 PM
I would totally be on board to get one of Houston's scraps if this deal were to go down; IE Greg Smith, Thomas Robinson, or Patrick Beverley.
NardDogNation
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6/10/2013  2:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/10/2013  3:06 PM
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Dagger wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.

I like Shumpert, no doubt, but we tend to overvalue our young players and their impact on a game. Channing Frye was suppose to be a perennial all-star in the mold of a Rasheed Wallace. Gallinari was suppose to be Dirk. Eddy Curry was suppose to be Shaq. On and on, the inflated expectations go and none of those guys even came close to matching them. With that being said, I don't see Iman being much more than what Tony Allen currently is for the Grizzlies, which is pretty good, but never as good as what a guy like Gasol can give you. This "washed up" player averaged player efficiency rating better than +22 in the playoffs, posting 14ppg, 11.5rpg, 6.5apg. During the regular season, Gasol averaged 13.7ppg, 8.6rpg, 4.1apg and 1.2bpg while playing out of position in an offensive system that poorly compliments his skillset. By contrast, Shumpert had an effeciency rating of +11.75.

I hate the idea of giving up Shumpert but we're in win-now mode and need players capable of achieving this end. Mind you, I'd only endorse this deal if we can acquire Rajon Rondo, which I've coupled to this move in my head; without it, I'd reconsider moving Shumpert.

who is this "we" that overvalued young players. That is a sweeping statement and not even close to being true. And just because *someone* may have said something stupid doesn't mean it has anything to do with another young guy on the Knicks team.

Why do you equate Tony Allen and Shump, especially on offensive end? One can shoot from distance and the other can't. Also, you never trade a 23 year old with huge potential for someone 33 and in decline.

Amare and Gasol? Ew

I've been a member on a bunch of Knick message boards and have tons of friends that are diehard Knick fans. One of the common themes that I've seen in each group is a tendency to overvalue players by making the comparisons above. Part of the problem is that we've only drafted one real franchise changing talent in about 30-40 years so anything that remotely has talent gets trumped up as the next big thing.

Even on this message board, I've heard at least 3 or 4 guys refer to Shumpert as a "future all-star" and capable of being a no.2 caliber player on a championship team; I think you probably feel the same way since no one talks about role/complimentary players as having "huge potential". That to me is extremely far-fetched. He has shown the ability to be an elite defender but aside from that, nothing else in his game is particularly remarkable or consistent, exactly like Tony Allen. Both guys came into the league as extremely athletic combo guards that were good enough defensively to get drafted as a late first round pick. Both guys waited until their Junior/Senior year because no one was buying their "potential" as anything more than good role players. Again, I like Shumpert but I think it is unlikely that he'll be anything more than a complimentary player at best.

holfresh
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6/10/2013  4:34 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/10/2013  5:06 PM
Shump can change a game on the defensive end at 23 yrs old, not many in the game can do that, Bron??...Why would u trade that???
martin
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6/10/2013  5:13 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
Dagger wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:I'm still skeptical of Houston pulling that off. I for one, can not see Chris Paul forgoing the extra year he'd be eligible on his contract. As a 28 year old guy that depends on his quickness to be effective, Paul's window for a max contract closes this season, which leads me to believe that he'll maximize the last bit of leverage he has left. Theoretically, that Rocket team would be better than the current Clipper team but I don't believe by a wide enough margin for CP3 to take it seriously. I could see Howard going but he's an overrated tool; so, there is that. I personally see the Lakers bending to his whims before letting him walk though.


On a side note, if the Lakers can make a sign and trade, we should pursue Pau Gasol. I think we could leverage the situation by having the Hawks deal Josh Smith to them, who is Dwight's best friend and allegedly a guy D'Antoni likes from a skill perspective. I could see a 4 team deal getting it done, where the Lakers get Josh Smith, Steve Novak and a $4 million trade exception; the Suns would get Iman Shumpert, Zaza Pachulia and our 24th pick; the Hawks would get Marcin Gortat and Marcus Camby and we'd get Pau Gasol. Howard stays in LAL, the Hawks are able to get a similarly talented player to Smith that allows everyone to play their natural positions, the Suns get Shumpert who they love and the Knicks get their no.2 scorer that they so desperately need.

Shumpert AND our pick for washed up Gasol? I think I just vomited.

I like Shumpert, no doubt, but we tend to overvalue our young players and their impact on a game. Channing Frye was suppose to be a perennial all-star in the mold of a Rasheed Wallace. Gallinari was suppose to be Dirk. Eddy Curry was suppose to be Shaq. On and on, the inflated expectations go and none of those guys even came close to matching them. With that being said, I don't see Iman being much more than what Tony Allen currently is for the Grizzlies, which is pretty good, but never as good as what a guy like Gasol can give you. This "washed up" player averaged player efficiency rating better than +22 in the playoffs, posting 14ppg, 11.5rpg, 6.5apg. During the regular season, Gasol averaged 13.7ppg, 8.6rpg, 4.1apg and 1.2bpg while playing out of position in an offensive system that poorly compliments his skillset. By contrast, Shumpert had an effeciency rating of +11.75.

I hate the idea of giving up Shumpert but we're in win-now mode and need players capable of achieving this end. Mind you, I'd only endorse this deal if we can acquire Rajon Rondo, which I've coupled to this move in my head; without it, I'd reconsider moving Shumpert.

who is this "we" that overvalued young players. That is a sweeping statement and not even close to being true. And just because *someone* may have said something stupid doesn't mean it has anything to do with another young guy on the Knicks team.

Why do you equate Tony Allen and Shump, especially on offensive end? One can shoot from distance and the other can't. Also, you never trade a 23 year old with huge potential for someone 33 and in decline.

Amare and Gasol? Ew

I've been a member on a bunch of Knick message boards and have tons of friends that are diehard Knick fans. One of the common themes that I've seen in each group is a tendency to overvalue players by making the comparisons above. Part of the problem is that we've only drafted one real franchise changing talent in about 30-40 years so anything that remotely has talent gets trumped up as the next big thing.

Even on this message board, I've heard at least 3 or 4 guys refer to Shumpert as a "future all-star" and capable of being a no.2 caliber player on a championship team; I think you probably feel the same way since no one talks about role/complimentary players as having "huge potential". That to me is extremely far-fetched. He has shown the ability to be an elite defender but aside from that, nothing else in his game is particularly remarkable or consistent, exactly like Tony Allen. Both guys came into the league as extremely athletic combo guards that were good enough defensively to get drafted as a late first round pick. Both guys waited until their Junior/Senior year because no one was buying their "potential" as anything more than good role players. Again, I like Shumpert but I think it is unlikely that he'll be anything more than a complimentary player at best.

Since when does "huge potential" equate no 2 caliber player on championship team? Your stretches are thin, very thin. Makes your whole point not worth considering.

Shump can shoot from distance, unlike Allen, that's a WIDE disparity in comparison. As an example in playoffs: 43% is something that is way beyond "nothing particularly remarkable".

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