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JR Smith is doing what Amare was supposed to
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Knixkik
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4/4/2013  10:57 AM
He has become the 2nd star on this team and has been a great complimentary player to Melo. He takes a lot of pressure off of Melo. Obviously there will always be the question whether he truely turned the corner, but if he has we will see a great 2nd piece for this team. He should start next year and average 18/5/4 and hopefully improve his shooting percents. If he does he will be an all-star. Again, this is all still questionable if his play is sustainable but early signs are good and we might have our 2nd guy. The playoffs will obviously be the key to it all.
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ChuckBuck
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4/4/2013  11:10 AM
Depends if he tests the open market, which he probably will, after his overall best season as a Pro. If he has a tremendous playoff run, there's a good chance he'll be gone.

For now I'm just enjoying the amazing enigma that is JR Swish!

Nalod
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4/4/2013  11:40 AM
1. Who cares if he starts. he is playing starter minutes.

2. JR is a tough sign for another team for two reasons:
a) he is unpredictable, unreliable in his career. He is tough long term investment
b) How many years would another team give him? We have his bird rights after next season so:

He plays for us next year for a reduced rate and we compensate him for it with a longer term deal so his multi year average will benefit him.

It makes sense. He has been the key to this season in Amare's absence!

When all is said and done the balance of the team rests on the very inked shoulders of JR Smith!

Knixkik
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4/4/2013  11:59 AM
Nalod wrote:1. Who cares if he starts. he is playing starter minutes.

2. JR is a tough sign for another team for two reasons:
a) he is unpredictable, unreliable in his career. He is tough long term investment
b) How many years would another team give him? We have his bird rights after next season so:

He plays for us next year for a reduced rate and we compensate him for it with a longer term deal so his multi year average will benefit him.

It makes sense. He has been the key to this season in Amare's absence!

When all is said and done the balance of the team rests on the very inked shoulders of JR Smith!

Everyone cares about starting. I think given a good playoff performance he will still re-sign with the Knicks this summer, even if it's at a discounted rate, but he will receive a promise to start. He will want to start, so let him. There will be other teams out there offering the contract and starting spot.

ChuckBuck
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4/4/2013  12:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/4/2013  12:00 PM
Nalod wrote:1. Who cares if he starts. he is playing starter minutes.

2. JR is a tough sign for another team for two reasons:
a) he is unpredictable, unreliable in his career. He is tough long term investment
b) How many years would another team give him? We have his bird rights after next season so:

He plays for us next year for a reduced rate and we compensate him for it with a longer term deal so his multi year average will benefit him.

It makes sense. He has been the key to this season in Amare's absence!

When all is said and done the balance of the team rests on the very inked shoulders of JR Smith!

He has a Player Option for 2013-2014, which he can opt out of. We can only offer him a salary with $5.5 million average. I'm pretty sure some team will offer more than $5.5 million, either that or they'll Jeremy Lin us(Poison Pill contract).

Nalod
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4/4/2013  12:25 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Nalod wrote:1. Who cares if he starts. he is playing starter minutes.

2. JR is a tough sign for another team for two reasons:
a) he is unpredictable, unreliable in his career. He is tough long term investment
b) How many years would another team give him? We have his bird rights after next season so:

He plays for us next year for a reduced rate and we compensate him for it with a longer term deal so his multi year average will benefit him.

It makes sense. He has been the key to this season in Amare's absence!

When all is said and done the balance of the team rests on the very inked shoulders of JR Smith!

He has a Player Option for 2013-2014, which he can opt out of. We can only offer him a salary with $5.5 million average. I'm pretty sure some team will offer more than $5.5 million, either that or they'll Jeremy Lin us(Poison Pill contract).

And after that option we have his bird rights. Thats my point. Say he gets 30 mil over 4 years. WE can give him the money the year after and while he gets underpaid for one more year, knicks can pay him more and his average salary will be higher. Say we give him 10 mil for three years, then he would have made like 32.5 for the same 4 years. Just an example.

We need him and he sort of needs us as well.

ChuckBuck
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4/4/2013  12:31 PM
Nalod wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Nalod wrote:1. Who cares if he starts. he is playing starter minutes.

2. JR is a tough sign for another team for two reasons:
a) he is unpredictable, unreliable in his career. He is tough long term investment
b) How many years would another team give him? We have his bird rights after next season so:

He plays for us next year for a reduced rate and we compensate him for it with a longer term deal so his multi year average will benefit him.

It makes sense. He has been the key to this season in Amare's absence!

When all is said and done the balance of the team rests on the very inked shoulders of JR Smith!

He has a Player Option for 2013-2014, which he can opt out of. We can only offer him a salary with $5.5 million average. I'm pretty sure some team will offer more than $5.5 million, either that or they'll Jeremy Lin us(Poison Pill contract).

And after that option we have his bird rights. Thats my point. Say he gets 30 mil over 4 years. WE can give him the money the year after and while he gets underpaid for one more year, knicks can pay him more and his average salary will be higher. Say we give him 10 mil for three years, then he would have made like 32.5 for the same 4 years. Just an example.

We need him and he sort of needs us as well.

Understood. I hope he sees it that way as well. All it takes is one lottery team to Landry Fields us though...

Nalod
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4/4/2013  12:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/4/2013  12:43 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Nalod wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Nalod wrote:1. Who cares if he starts. he is playing starter minutes.

2. JR is a tough sign for another team for two reasons:
a) he is unpredictable, unreliable in his career. He is tough long term investment
b) How many years would another team give him? We have his bird rights after next season so:

He plays for us next year for a reduced rate and we compensate him for it with a longer term deal so his multi year average will benefit him.

It makes sense. He has been the key to this season in Amare's absence!

When all is said and done the balance of the team rests on the very inked shoulders of JR Smith!

He has a Player Option for 2013-2014, which he can opt out of. We can only offer him a salary with $5.5 million average. I'm pretty sure some team will offer more than $5.5 million, either that or they'll Jeremy Lin us(Poison Pill contract).

And after that option we have his bird rights. Thats my point. Say he gets 30 mil over 4 years. WE can give him the money the year after and while he gets underpaid for one more year, knicks can pay him more and his average salary will be higher. Say we give him 10 mil for three years, then he would have made like 32.5 for the same 4 years. Just an example.

We need him and he sort of needs us as well.

Understood. I hope he sees it that way as well. All it takes is one lottery team to Landry Fields us though...

I get it and think we have a hand shake deal already, or just wishful thinking.


Many "Lottery" teams have enough bone head players on the team. JR is doing well under veteran leadership and a "father figure" type coach. Im not going team by team but I don't know who has the money for him, or the type if team that he makes a good investment for? Philly? DC? Bobcats? JR is not a "low character" but not a "High" one either. My take is his value her is higher elseware. If he leaves for fear of injury then its a sound business decision he makes.

JR needs a certain type of environment to succeed in. A team like boston would worry me with a good coach, KG to keep everyone in line and still good enough to make such an investment. Also by hurting us it helps them as well! Just an example.

RonRon
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4/4/2013  12:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/4/2013  1:07 PM
Nalod wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:
Nalod wrote:1. Who cares if he starts. he is playing starter minutes.

2. JR is a tough sign for another team for two reasons:
a) he is unpredictable, unreliable in his career. He is tough long term investment
b) How many years would another team give him? We have his bird rights after next season so:

He plays for us next year for a reduced rate and we compensate him for it with a longer term deal so his multi year average will benefit him.

It makes sense. He has been the key to this season in Amare's absence!

When all is said and done the balance of the team rests on the very inked shoulders of JR Smith!

He has a Player Option for 2013-2014, which he can opt out of. We can only offer him a salary with $5.5 million average. I'm pretty sure some team will offer more than $5.5 million, either that or they'll Jeremy Lin us(Poison Pill contract).

And after that option we have his bird rights. Thats my point. Say he gets 30 mil over 4 years. WE can give him the money the year after and while he gets underpaid for one more year, knicks can pay him more and his average salary will be higher. Say we give him 10 mil for three years, then he would have made like 32.5 for the same 4 years. Just an example.

We need him and he sort of needs us as well.


We have his early bird rights in which we can pay him a starting salary a little higher than 5m a year with increases each year after
He is NOT in a rookie deal, in which we have the ability to match an offer he receives from another team
WE DO NOT have the ability to get ANY compensation in return with a sign and trade because under the NEW CBA, tax paying teams CANNOT facilitate S&T's

For this reason, it makes NOT matching Lin's offer much other to swallow because we don't have any ability to add players in the next 2-3 years till 2015 summer FA when Amare/Tyson/Kidd/Camby all comes off the books, other than mini MLE, vet min deals, limited picks, and trades *without S&T's* with our limited assets/salaries to match up/entice other teams to consider dealing with us

In the off season, We are looking at the possibility of losing

JR Smith
Kenyon Martin
and even Copeland *could offer him a 2 year vet min deal(around 2m for 2 years) but a team could offer him about 2 - 2.5m for a stretch 4/5 that could play some SF as a scorer off the bench*


and any future vet min deals that turns out to be steals but many still believe as long as we have Melo, it will be easy to find "ROLE PLAYERS" to fill our roster with
I would be very surprised if we were able to keep Martin with the way he has played unless we use our mini MLE to keep him (I am not even sure that would be enough as a team could offer him 3-5 for 2-3 years with what he has shown thus for)
As for JR Smith, I can see a team offering him a 2 year about 20m deal, compared to our 5 year about 30m deal
Problem is we need to keep these players, draft well, sign a solid mini MLE player, and continue to find great vet min steals to keep us legit contenders for next 2 years
I would love someone like Kyle Korver if possible for the mini MLE

As for keeping JR Smith, it would most likely include WASTING a roster spot to sign Chris Smith, in order to compensate for what JR should get elsewhere for a chance to help his brother develop as a NBA bench player
Regardless of the good and bad of JR Smith, we need players of his talent, as he is our 2nd best player after Melo, talent/athleticism/shooting ability/penetration/def is there...

6th man candidates

JR - should be the leading candidate but we shall see with the games left
Crawford - has cooled off recently after his hot start with the Clippers recent struggles*
Jack - should be right up there in contention with the Warriors success this year
Jeff Green - although he has been starting much more since KG's recent injury*

Nalod
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4/4/2013  1:06 PM
| 37Tweet JR Smith to Re-Sign With Knicks for $2.8 Million Over 2 YeaTuesday, July 10th, 2012 at 9:10 am rs

Free agent JR Smith and the New York Knickerbockers will re-join forces for two more seasons, during which Smith will earn $2.8 million. From ESPN: “The deal is guaranteed for the first season and contains a player option for the second season. ‘I have decided to re-sign with the Knicks. I just felt that, despite my other options, New York is the best situation for me,’ Smith said in a statement. ‘Coach (Mike) Woodson showed a lot of faith and trust in me last season, as did (Knicks owner) Mr. (James) Dolan and the organization. My teammates are great to play with and New York fans are the best. I can’t wait to get started.’ The 6-foot-6 Smith is expected to start at shooting guard for New York in 2012-2013 after coming off the bench last season. Landry Fields, last season’s starter, has reached a verbal agreement with the Toronto Raptors on a three-year offer sheet for approximately $20 million — a deal the Knicks are not expected to match. An eight-year veteran, Smith averaged 12.5 points, 3.9 rebounds and 2.4 assists per game for the Knicks last season. [b]The Knicks will have Smith’s early Bird rights after next season, meaning they can exceed the salary cap to re-sign the shooting guard if he decides to decline the 2013-14 player option.”[/b]

RonRon
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4/4/2013  1:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/4/2013  1:26 PM
Nalod wrote:
| 37Tweet JR Smith to Re-Sign With Knicks for $2.8 Million Over 2 YeaTuesday, July 10th, 2012 at 9:10 am rs

Free agent JR Smith and the New York Knickerbockers will re-join forces for two more seasons, during which Smith will earn $2.8 million. From ESPN: “The deal is guaranteed for the first season and contains a player option for the second season. ‘I have decided to re-sign with the Knicks. I just felt that, despite my other options, New York is the best situation for me,’ Smith said in a statement. ‘Coach (Mike) Woodson showed a lot of faith and trust in me last season, as did (Knicks owner) Mr. (James) Dolan and the organization. My teammates are great to play with and New York fans are the best. I can’t wait to get started.’ The 6-foot-6 Smith is expected to start at shooting guard for New York in 2012-2013 after coming off the bench last season. Landry Fields, last season’s starter, has reached a verbal agreement with the Toronto Raptors on a three-year offer sheet for approximately $20 million — a deal the Knicks are not expected to match. An eight-year veteran, Smith averaged 12.5 points, 3.9 rebounds and 2.4 assists per game for the Knicks last season. [b]The Knicks will have Smith’s early Bird rights after next season, meaning they can exceed the salary cap to re-sign the shooting guard if he decides to decline the 2013-14 player option.”[/b]


JR WILL OPT out of that 2nd year deal

do not mix up early bird rights for early bird rights
and
do not confuse it with a player that is under a rookie contract because those are the ones that we have the right to match another team's offer

SO JR IS A UFA by the summer, meaning he will be able to sign with any team of his choice, while the Knick's can only pay him a starting salary of a bit over 5m vs a team with salary cap room can offer whatever they feel he is worth like which could be anywhere from FULL MLE to 10m per year

Contenders
==============
Spurs, Portland, Utah, Atlanta, Pacers, Houston, Philly, Clippers


Rebuilding Teams like
========================
Dallas *SEMI REBUILDING* /Suns/Bobcats/Cavs


Not to mention that many teams still have the amnesty to work with in addition to trades to clear salary

Some players that are comparable and could be FA's

Gereld Henderson
Manu Ginobili
Mayo
Jack

Nick Young


I think Henderson, Jack, and Mayo are his 3 threats, which player will team's prefer and value more?
While JR is the better defender of all his competitors
Ginobili would be in there if he hasn't been injured these past 3 years consistently

ChuckBuck
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4/4/2013  1:21 PM
Here's what the Knicks can offer JR this offseason:

As an early-bird, J.R. Smith will be eligible for 104.5% of the average N.B.A. salary in year one, with 7.5% raises year-over-year. Next season, the average salary will be somewhere around $5.2 million (estimation). Based on that number, the Knicks could offer J.R. Smith a four year deal worth around $24.3 million. The yearly breakdown would look something like this: year one $5.4 million, year two $5.8 million, year three $6.3 million, year four $6.8 million.

Like I said if some team offers more than $24mill, it could be bye bye JR.

Nalod
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4/4/2013  1:23 PM
RonRon wrote:
Nalod wrote:
| 37Tweet JR Smith to Re-Sign With Knicks for $2.8 Million Over 2 YeaTuesday, July 10th, 2012 at 9:10 am rs

Free agent JR Smith and the New York Knickerbockers will re-join forces for two more seasons, during which Smith will earn $2.8 million. From ESPN: “The deal is guaranteed for the first season and contains a player option for the second season. ‘I have decided to re-sign with the Knicks. I just felt that, despite my other options, New York is the best situation for me,’ Smith said in a statement. ‘Coach (Mike) Woodson showed a lot of faith and trust in me last season, as did (Knicks owner) Mr. (James) Dolan and the organization. My teammates are great to play with and New York fans are the best. I can’t wait to get started.’ The 6-foot-6 Smith is expected to start at shooting guard for New York in 2012-2013 after coming off the bench last season. Landry Fields, last season’s starter, has reached a verbal agreement with the Toronto Raptors on a three-year offer sheet for approximately $20 million — a deal the Knicks are not expected to match. An eight-year veteran, Smith averaged 12.5 points, 3.9 rebounds and 2.4 assists per game for the Knicks last season. [b]The Knicks will have Smith’s early Bird rights after next season, meaning they can exceed the salary cap to re-sign the shooting guard if he decides to decline the 2013-14 player option.”[/b]


JR WILL OPT out of that 2nd year deal

do not mix up early bird rights for early bird rights
and
do not confuse it with a player that is under a rookie contract because those are the ones that we have the right to match another team's offer

SO JR IS A UFA by the summer, meaning he will be able to sign with any team of his choice, while the Knick's can only pay him a starting salary of a bit over 5m vs a team with salary cap room can offer whatever they feel he is worth like which could be anywhere from FULL MLE to 10m per year

Contenders
==============
Spurs, Portland, Utah, Atlanta, Pacers, Houston


Rebuilding Teams like
========================
Dallas *SEMI REBUILDING* /Suns/Bobcats/Cavs


Not to mention that many teams still have the amnesty to work with

Spurs will have Manu and Leonard, Utah has Haywood, Pacers have George, Houstan has Parsons and Harden. ATL might but they clear out cap to bring in JR smith? POrtand has Batum. Dallas has Mayo, Cats have Kilcrest-Kidd, Cavs have Waters.

If JR waits, we can pay him. Not to say any of the above can change via trade but Smith does have some history that is not conducive to making a long term deal. He is only this year being a mature non problematic consistant player. His talent should demand more, but it hasn't.

SupremeCommander
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4/4/2013  1:36 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:Here's what the Knicks can offer JR this offseason:

As an early-bird, J.R. Smith will be eligible for 104.5% of the average N.B.A. salary in year one, with 7.5% raises year-over-year. Next season, the average salary will be somewhere around $5.2 million (estimation). Based on that number, the Knicks could offer J.R. Smith a four year deal worth around $24.3 million. The yearly breakdown would look something like this: year one $5.4 million, year two $5.8 million, year three $6.3 million, year four $6.8 million.

Like I said if some team offers more than $24mill, it could be bye bye JR.

could be - but I really can't see any other team being like "you know what - I'm tying up most of my cap in JR Smith!!"

if he gets his, good for him. I think he likes NY and playing for Woody. And I'll think they;ll get creative to get him into better and better deals. most guys wouldn't go for it but this situation seems very different

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
ChuckBuck
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4/4/2013  1:46 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Here's what the Knicks can offer JR this offseason:

As an early-bird, J.R. Smith will be eligible for 104.5% of the average N.B.A. salary in year one, with 7.5% raises year-over-year. Next season, the average salary will be somewhere around $5.2 million (estimation). Based on that number, the Knicks could offer J.R. Smith a four year deal worth around $24.3 million. The yearly breakdown would look something like this: year one $5.4 million, year two $5.8 million, year three $6.3 million, year four $6.8 million.

Like I said if some team offers more than $24mill, it could be bye bye JR.

could be - but I really can't see any other team being like "you know what - I'm tying up most of my cap in JR Smith!!"

if he gets his, good for him. I think he likes NY and playing for Woody. And I'll think they;ll get creative to get him into better and better deals. most guys wouldn't go for it but this situation seems very different

I'm crossing my fingers. He's been a good fit for us and vice versa.

Knixkik
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4/4/2013  2:32 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
ChuckBuck wrote:Here's what the Knicks can offer JR this offseason:

As an early-bird, J.R. Smith will be eligible for 104.5% of the average N.B.A. salary in year one, with 7.5% raises year-over-year. Next season, the average salary will be somewhere around $5.2 million (estimation). Based on that number, the Knicks could offer J.R. Smith a four year deal worth around $24.3 million. The yearly breakdown would look something like this: year one $5.4 million, year two $5.8 million, year three $6.3 million, year four $6.8 million.

Like I said if some team offers more than $24mill, it could be bye bye JR.

could be - but I really can't see any other team being like "you know what - I'm tying up most of my cap in JR Smith!!"

if he gets his, good for him. I think he likes NY and playing for Woody. And I'll think they;ll get creative to get him into better and better deals. most guys wouldn't go for it but this situation seems very different

I think he wants to stay, but i also think deep down he wants to start. So next year free JR Smith and he will return!

gunsnewing
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4/6/2013  7:16 AM
Its funny. JR at $2.5mil per is out performing Joe Johnson at $24MIL LOL
JR Smith is doing what Amare was supposed to

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