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Kidd isn't gonna finish out his Contract with the Knicks
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playa2
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3/24/2013  9:57 PM
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/knicks_pg_not_kidd_anymore_GoyOnEyzVunEtLmqT2GkQL?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Knicks

Jason Kidd, who turned 40 yesterday, said Friday night he may not play out his entire three-year contract with the team. “We’re going to revisit [it],” he said. “We [would] love to make it to 42, but we have to be realistic. If the body and mind can’t compete at the same time, then I got to move to the side and watch these younger guys play. But I feel great.”

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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CrushAlot
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3/24/2013  10:08 PM
What would it mean to the Knicks cap if they negotiated a retirement settlement? I would love to have Kidd back but if he left and the Knicks could fill his spot with a similar salary guy I would be ok with it.
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gunsnewing
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3/25/2013  7:52 AM
I hope he comes back and joins the coaching staff
Andrew
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3/25/2013  8:35 AM
CrushAlot wrote:What would it mean to the Knicks cap if they negotiated a retirement settlement? I would love to have Kidd back but if he left and the Knicks could fill his spot with a similar salary guy I would be ok with it.

There would be no need to negotiate a settlement. If he willingly retires, his contract comes off the cap.

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arkrud
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3/25/2013  9:35 AM
Andrew wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:What would it mean to the Knicks cap if they negotiated a retirement settlement? I would love to have Kidd back but if he left and the Knicks could fill his spot with a similar salary guy I would be ok with it.

There would be no need to negotiate a settlement. If he willingly retires, his contract comes off the cap.

He will want his money so we will need to negotiate or take him on in another capacity (assistant coach to jump start his coaching carrier?).

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
VCoug
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3/25/2013  9:45 AM
Andrew wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:What would it mean to the Knicks cap if they negotiated a retirement settlement? I would love to have Kidd back but if he left and the Knicks could fill his spot with a similar salary guy I would be ok with it.

There would be no need to negotiate a settlement. If he willingly retires, his contract comes off the cap.

No it doesn't. Players who retire still count against the cap unless the NBA grants an injury exception.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Nalod
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3/25/2013  9:49 AM
VCoug wrote:
Andrew wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:What would it mean to the Knicks cap if they negotiated a retirement settlement? I would love to have Kidd back but if he left and the Knicks could fill his spot with a similar salary guy I would be ok with it.

There would be no need to negotiate a settlement. If he willingly retires, his contract comes off the cap.

No it doesn't. Players who retire still count against the cap unless the NBA grants an injury exception.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

ETO.

61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?
There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 77), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion on the one-year anniversary of the last game in which the player played1. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

The determination as to whether an injury or illness is career ending is made by a physician jointly selected by the league and players association. The determination is based on whether the injury or illness will prevent the player from playing for the remainder of his career, or if it is severe enough that continuing to play constitutes a medically unacceptable risk.

If the injury exclusion is granted, the player's salary is removed from the team salary effective:

•If the player played 10 or more games1 that season, on the one-year anniversary of the player's last game.
•If the player played fewer than 10 games1 that season, 60 days after his last game, or the one-year anniversary of his last game in the previous season, whichever is later.
If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to the team salary when he plays in his 25th game1 in any one season, for any team. This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his previous team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. If the 25th game was a playoff game, then the player's salary is returned to the cap effective on the date of the team's last regular season game (i.e., the returned salary counts toward the luxury tax).

There are a few additional nuances to the salary exclusion:

•If the player resumes his career and his salary is returned to the team salary, the team can re-apply for the salary exclusion under the same rules (including the rules for the waiting period).
•If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.
•A team cannot apply for this salary exclusion if they have applied for a Disabled Player exception (see question number 25) that season, whether the exception was granted or not.
•If this salary exclusion is granted, the team cannot re-sign or re-acquire the player at any time.
•This salary exclusion can be used when a player dies while under contract.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 They count only regular season and playoff games, and do not count preseason games. This was not specified prior to the 2011 CBA. During the 2008-09 season Darius Miles (whose salary was excluded from Portland's cap) played in 10 games for Boston and Memphis (the limit was 10 games at the time), which included preseason games. The league counted the preseason games toward the total, and returned Miles' salary to Portland's cap.

SupremeCommander
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3/25/2013  9:50 AM
Hopefully the Knicks can draft a PG or find a way to trade for a Bledsoe/Maynor type and have Kidd tutor him next year. Having Jason Kidd play the type of minutes Priggi started the year at would be awesome. Plus the young guy would learn by seeing how one of the best ever prepared on a nightly basis
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RonRon
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3/25/2013  9:56 AM
Indeed, is it possible from him to still use his "EXPIRING since he is retiring" as an asset to take back salary?
While COMING BACK as an Assistant coach vs not being able to come back as a player

I know he tore his knee up but he was playing great last season and is VERY BALANCED and a VERY GOOD DEFENDER/Rebounder
Whether it may be this summer or next summer? Brandon Rush would be coming off injury and GS would most likely look to resign Jack with his performance this year
Not sure of OKC's 2nd rounder would do it, with the little bit of injury exemption we acquired for Brewer deal
GS does not want to pay taxes and I think used their amnesty already, while keeping Jack should be a #1 priority with his ability to play PG/SG, with Curry's injury history, and even some SF if needed

That is why they traded Tyler along with Jenkins to just go under the tax bracket
I would not be surprised if GS will try to move Jefferson with a 1st round pick

If JR Smith does indeed sign with another team, is it possible to gain a pick out of it?
I think many teams will be interested in JR with MLE like money possibly more $$$$$ at a 2year deal vs 3+ years
No team wants to miss out on chance at 2015 FA list...

smackeddog
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3/25/2013  11:35 AM
I've been saying this since we signed him. Same with Camby.
callmened
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3/25/2013  11:52 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/25/2013  9:05 PM
Im* confused RonRon...so if he retires, we STILL Owe him his money AND it counts against the cap?!?!
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
Andrew
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3/25/2013  12:16 PM
VCoug wrote:
Andrew wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:What would it mean to the Knicks cap if they negotiated a retirement settlement? I would love to have Kidd back but if he left and the Knicks could fill his spot with a similar salary guy I would be ok with it.

There would be no need to negotiate a settlement. If he willingly retires, his contract comes off the cap.

No it doesn't. Players who retire still count against the cap unless the NBA grants an injury exception.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

Where does it say that? We would be dealing with the case here where Kidd decides he does not want to play. Knicks don't need to pay him if he decides to retire.

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VCoug
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3/25/2013  2:52 PM
Andrew wrote:
VCoug wrote:
Andrew wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:What would it mean to the Knicks cap if they negotiated a retirement settlement? I would love to have Kidd back but if he left and the Knicks could fill his spot with a similar salary guy I would be ok with it.

There would be no need to negotiate a settlement. If he willingly retires, his contract comes off the cap.

No it doesn't. Players who retire still count against the cap unless the NBA grants an injury exception.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q61

Where does it say that? We would be dealing with the case here where Kidd decides he does not want to play. Knicks don't need to pay him if he decides to retire.

The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 77), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.
Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player is no longer playing or has retired.
There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is excluded from team salary. This is when a player suffers a career-ending injury or illness. The team must waive the player, and can apply for this salary exclusion on the one-year anniversary of the last game in which the player played1. Only the player's team at the time the injury or illness was discovered (or reasonably should have been discovered) can apply for this salary exclusion.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Andrew
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3/25/2013  3:43 PM
VCoug, that's a very general statement. The only exception.....to what...see the first sentence.

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement

Several section's in the FAQ state "if a retired player receives money". That leads me to believe that if a team wishes to pay a retired player they can, but are not obligated to. Imagine melo saying he's done after this year? Are the Knicks obligated to pay his 20M salary while he sits at home? Is that really what people are saying?

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sidsanders
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3/25/2013  5:41 PM
Andrew wrote:VCoug, that's a very general statement. The only exception.....to what...see the first sentence.

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement

Several section's in the FAQ state "if a retired player receives money". That leads me to believe that if a team wishes to pay a retired player they can, but are not obligated to. Imagine melo saying he's done after this year? Are the Knicks obligated to pay his 20M salary while he sits at home? Is that really what people are saying?

all the data i have seen suggests it remains on the cap till the contract ends OR both sides agree to some type of buyout. do not know if they coulda pulled this off: contract terms (termination) for retirement prior to the last year.

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VCoug
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3/25/2013  6:54 PM
Andrew wrote:VCoug, that's a very general statement. The only exception.....to what...see the first sentence.

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement

Several section's in the FAQ state "if a retired player receives money". That leads me to believe that if a team wishes to pay a retired player they can, but are not obligated to. Imagine melo saying he's done after this year? Are the Knicks obligated to pay his 20M salary while he sits at home? Is that really what people are saying?

The binding part has to do with if a player is allowed to come back and play again, not their contract status. There are basically 3 "types" of retirement:

  • A player retires and the team doesn't fight it. This is usually what happens in a retirement
  • A player retires and the team fights it because the team believe the player is only doing it so he doesn't have to play for them anymore. I don't remember ever seeing this happen.
  • Player has a career ending injury and the team applies for an injury exception.

Honestly, all of this is semantics. Whether Kidd's contract is on the books or not won't effect our ability to sign free agents. $3M isn't the difference between being below the cap or regaining our salary cap exceptions.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
Bonn1997
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3/25/2013  7:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/25/2013  7:31 PM
sidsanders wrote:
Andrew wrote:VCoug, that's a very general statement. The only exception.....to what...see the first sentence.

There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement

Several section's in the FAQ state "if a retired player receives money". That leads me to believe that if a team wishes to pay a retired player they can, but are not obligated to. Imagine melo saying he's done after this year? Are the Knicks obligated to pay his 20M salary while he sits at home? Is that really what people are saying?

all the data i have seen suggests it remains on the cap till the contract ends OR both sides agree to some type of buyout. do not know if they coulda pulled this off: contract terms (termination) for retirement prior to the last year.


That was my understanding too. If there is a buyout, then, I think the value of the buyout goes against the cap.
Kidd isn't gonna finish out his Contract with the Knicks

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