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Grunwald and Woodson
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CrushAlot
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3/14/2013  7:15 AM
A lot of good gm/coach relationships have strife. These guys seem to be on the same page about things and that may not always be good. Keeping Sheed for Woodson is about loyalty and emotion. Grunwald has to approach his job from an unemotional place and sometimes cross his coach if he can improve his teams chance of winning. Grunwald should have waived Sheed and picked up a guy that could be on the playoff roster.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
JamesLin
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3/14/2013  7:20 AM
Was there other better FA besides Sheed at that time? I don't remember seeing any, but maybe I missed someone. Being on same page is really important for building a team, no matter what. That goes for anything in life really. Would you work for your boss if you two are not on the same page? I know I wouldn't, just because that's how disasters and personnel conflicts occur.
Get busy living or get busy dying. ---- Andy Dufresne
gunsnewing
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3/14/2013  7:51 AM
This team is rotten at the core. Lateral moves arent going to make a difference
Nalod
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3/14/2013  7:55 AM
The loyalty aspect is actually one of the better knick traits. It might not add much to the Win column but at some level it has to be there otherwise we can't attract vets. They move family or make a commitment to come back and we can't just cast them aside when they get hurt.

If we do they won't come.

On the other hand, its better we don't need them to begin with.

Its the knicks. Stay somber and protect your emotions. If they won't commit why should fans?

AnubisADL
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3/14/2013  8:22 AM
Teams number 1 problem is Amare's 20 million salary eating up cap space.

Grunwald cant really maneuver with that much salary tied up in a guy who cant even contribute.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
Nalod
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3/14/2013  8:28 AM

Personally, This is not on Grunwald and Woodson has done a very good job.

Problem is the roster and if you overload on a savior your vulnerable when they go down.

GodSaveTheKnicks
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3/14/2013  1:48 PM
Nalod wrote:
Personally, This is not on Grunwald and Woodson has done a very good job.

Problem is the roster and if you overload on a savior your vulnerable when they go down.

Main gripe against Woodson is overplaying Melo, Amare, Chandler, JR, even Kidd.

We had a deep team in the beginning of the season and Prigs, White, Cope should have all played more to both prevent an injury and get them valuable in game experience BEFORE one occurs.

Minor gripe as MDA did the same thing

Grantland had something good on Coach Thibs doing the same thing though:

Brett Koremenos: The Chicago Bulls' offense has gone off the rails. Scoring just 79 points against Kings was perhaps the signal that the end is near for this team. Since their game against the Celtics on February 13, the Bulls have posted an offensive (that works in two ways here) efficiency rating of 94.1 — a mark that would be, by far, the worst in the NBA over the course of a full season. It’s easy to point to the absence of Derrick Rose and other assorted injuries as the primary culprit, but there is a bigger issue at play: fatigue.

Tom Thibodeau’s obsessive nature, chasing victory night after night, has his Chicago team on the verge of a collapse (its -5.1 scoring margin over the above mentioned stretch is Sacramento-level bad). As Grantland’s Alley-oop Overlord and resident Bulls fan, Robert Mays, pointed out to me last night, guys are just worn out. And how you can you blame Joakim Noah, Luol Deng, and all the rest of the walking dead for being exhausted when they’ve been driven into the ground with an endless string of 40-plus-minute nights?

I have long been a believer that coaches play their guys too much over the course of the regular season. Given the marathon-like schedule, it behooves coaches to think long-term when managing their core players' minutes even if it costs the team a few wins in the present. The problem with my opinion now is that it’s just an opinion.

The NBA is still years away from figuring out the real effect of fatigue on performance and injury risk. Until protocol for properly evaluating and managing fatigue can be implemented (which is a whole other battle), we won’t know how much is too much when it comes to playing time. For now the best we can do is just use the information at hand to deduce things like the Bulls are bad on offense (and just bad in general) because guys have played too much. But we won’t know if that’s the right assumption until we can figure out a way to measure the proof.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
Nalod
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3/14/2013  2:03 PM

Hindsight is a wonderful luxuray.

I remembery a few weeks ago the complaint that Stat should have played more against miami, but the next nite he was the deciding factor in a a win.

If he played more, he might not have been able play two nites in a row at a high level.

Maybe Woodson should be applauded for spreading it out.

Then in a matter of days Stat was cooked and off the shelf.

We are in win now mode.

Playing Cope and white more would have cost us wins and they are journeyman scrubs.

Teams like Denver who seemlingly don't play anyone (for the most part) over 30 minutes might be the new way to go. No big contract stars (Iggy won't make the same wage) and no big dependance on one or two players. You can also weave in youth and teach them. Maybe McGee playing limited minutes but more effectively is better for his career.

This is not easy because every year you have guys playing for contracts.

JR is playing for one "AGAIN" this year to mixed results. As his minutes increased he has gone from potential "6th man of the year" to "that phuching idiot". No doubt he has ability but we all know fatigue also affects the mind and decision making. Most teams have guys trying to gain stats which give them leverage in negotiation. The NFL is a parity league with many players moving year to year. It helps teams get better quickly but hurts the better teams retain players who put up good numbers. The NBA with its CBA is moving that way.

One way is to do what Denver is doing. They might now win a championship but they might contend for a long time.

My point? Im not sure how the top team do their minutes. But the question is a good one relating to burning out players. They get paid to accept the role. Could the smart move be to take a lessor amount but ask for less minutes which can help a team salary wise by having more money to add players, and it prolongs a career?

Is this the new "rebuild"?

The Heat were put together under the old CBA. Lets see who the "it" team is in a few years.

ramtour420
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3/14/2013  2:06 PM
Nalod wrote:The loyalty aspect is actually one of the better knick traits. It might not add much to the Win column but at some level it has to be there otherwise we can't attract vets. They move family or make a commitment to come back and we can't just cast them aside when they get hurt.

If we do they won't come.

On the other hand, its better we don't need them to begin with.

Its the knicks. Stay somber and protect your emotions. If they won't commit why should fans?



"Stay somber my friend. . ."
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
Nalod
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3/14/2013  2:23 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
Nalod wrote:The loyalty aspect is actually one of the better knick traits. It might not add much to the Win column but at some level it has to be there otherwise we can't attract vets. They move family or make a commitment to come back and we can't just cast them aside when they get hurt.

If we do they won't come.

On the other hand, its better we don't need them to begin with.

Its the knicks. Stay somber and protect your emotions. If they won't commit why should fans?



"Stay somber my friend. . ."

I don't watch every knick game but when I do......

knicks1248
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3/14/2013  3:12 PM
you can't play more the 9 10 guys a night, it hard to build chemistry that way.

Being a deep team doesnt mean you play 10/11 guys to keep your starters fresh, it means if someone goes down, you have guys that can step in a fill a void adequately.

ES
nixluva
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3/14/2013  3:33 PM
Actually there are ample opportunities to give guys rest and before the season many of us discussed the idea of Woody giving guys nights off. Remember when he was actually thinking like that at the start of the year? That's why you have guys like White and Cope. Also Prigs could've been used more and let Kidd sit on bac2bacs or just against weaker teams. You see how Popovich has tried to give his guys days off. We don't have to be as drastic as he was, but there was certainly an opportunity to do that.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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3/14/2013  3:36 PM
I was referring more to situations like

- when we're hopelessly behind and Woody still keeps the starters in long past when a coach like Pop would've pulled the plug

- in the beginning of the season if you look at game threads you'll see many times where we're blowing a team out in the 4th and I'm asking WHY THE HECK IS Melo/Ty/etc still out there? Why risk injury when the game is already in hand.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
CrushAlot
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3/14/2013  5:57 PM
Guys in another thread are saying that you can still add players and have them on your playoff roster. Does anyone know if this is correct? This thread was based on the fact that the knicks kept Sheed despite his having minimally regular season ending surgery when they could have waived him and signed a player for their playoff roster. If they can still add a guy to the playoff roster then I have no issues with keeping Sheed.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
JamesKPolk
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3/14/2013  6:33 PM
CrushAlot, aka the Woodson/Grunwald homer who tries hard to insult the Walsh regime, showing some chinks in the armor?

Woodson and Grunwald are both best friends with Isiah, who is good friends with Dolan. They're not going anywhere for a long time and they're relationship isn't changing either.

"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
CrushAlot
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3/14/2013  6:49 PM
JamesKPolk wrote:CrushAlot, aka the Woodson/Grunwald homer who tries hard to insult the Walsh regime, showing some chinks in the armor?

Woodson and Grunwald are both best friends with Isiah, who is good friends with Dolan. They're not going anywhere for a long time and they're relationship isn't changing either.

What is the signature move of the Walsh regime? Also, who was the coach?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
JamesKPolk
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3/14/2013  7:02 PM
Keep spinning the spin, baby.
"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
CrushAlot
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3/14/2013  7:05 PM
JamesKPolk wrote:Keep spinning the spin, baby.
Thats not a spin. I am not sure I would answer it either if I was a big Walsh guy.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
JamesKPolk
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3/14/2013  7:23 PM
The signature move of the Walsh regime was the forced Carmelo Anthony trade. Walsh had 30 year of success with Indiana and continues to have success with Indiana. I already stated his worst move was hiring Mike D'Antoni. But guess what? Grunwald's worst move surpasses it all. He hired Mike Woodson, a worse version of Mike D'Antoni. And sooner or later you will not be able to hang your hat on his 18-6 anymore. Sooner or later you'll have to admit failure in your masturbation over some mediocre retread in Woodson and his equally mediocre accomplice in Grunwald. The same Grunwald who traded for broken down Oakley and Olajuwon in Toronto and traded his top 5 lotto pick for Antonio Davis. The same one who is overpaying the likes of Raymond Felton and Steve Novak here now.

It's pathetic how you try and pin the problems on Walsh and paint him as a bad GM when the entire time he was here he was undermined by Dolan. It's already been pointed out how D'Antoni didn't even want Stoudemire and wanted to re-sign David Lee. Walsh usually listened to his coach. But who oh who has final say on personnel matters? Yeah, you guessed it, James L. Dolan. So while Walsh tried his best he was always undermined by Dolan and eventually quit. Now we have 2 yes men back in the key organizational spots, just like prior years with Isiah, Layden, Herb, Chaney, Wilkens, etc.

I don't discuss this stuff with people like you because it's not worth my time. You're a borderline troll.

"Peace, plenty, and contentment reign throughout our borders, and our beloved country presents a sublime moral spectacle to the world." - James K Polk
CrushAlot
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3/14/2013  7:30 PM
JamesKPolk wrote:The signature move of the Walsh regime was the forced Carmelo Anthony trade. Walsh had 30 year of success with Indiana and continues to have success with Indiana. I already stated his worst move was hiring Mike D'Antoni. But guess what? Grunwald's worst move surpasses it all. He hired Mike Woodson, a worse version of Mike D'Antoni. And sooner or later you will not be able to hang your hat on his 18-6 anymore. Sooner or later you'll have to admit failure in your masturbation over some mediocre retread in Woodson and his equally mediocre accomplice in Grunwald. The same Grunwald who traded for broken down Oakley and Olajuwon in Toronto and traded his top 5 lotto pick for Antonio Davis. The same one who is overpaying the likes of Raymond Felton and Steve Novak here now.

It's pathetic how you try and pin the problems on Walsh and paint him as a bad GM when the entire time he was here he was undermined by Dolan. It's already been pointed out how D'Antoni didn't even want Stoudemire and wanted to re-sign David Lee. Walsh usually listened to his coach. But who oh who has final say on personnel matters? Yeah, you guessed it, James L. Dolan. So while Walsh tried his best he was always undermined by Dolan and eventually quit. Now we have 2 yes men back in the key organizational spots, just like prior years with Isiah, Layden, Herb, Chaney, Wilkens, etc.

I don't discuss this stuff with people like you because it's not worth my time. You're a borderline troll.

I never read or heard anything at the time of the summer of 2010 about D'Antoni wanting Lee over Stoudemire. Can you post a link? Also, I agree that Carmelo was Walsh's best move but his signature move was Amare and there are many that believe the Melo trade was made by Dolan and ended the working relationship between Walsh and Dolan. Also, please give examples of Walsh being undermined by Dolan other than the Melo trade. In regards to the current Pacers Walsh is responsible for drafting Plumlee. He was hired three days before the draft.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Grunwald and Woodson

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