Realistically speaking though, Chandler us the one that has to be traded

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

The priority is cashflow. Knicks attempt the low risk way to win which keeps it interesting, but rebuilding with young players that are not household names is not going to work.

Might win a championship, but Ethan Hawk won't care.

MSG3 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Only in New York would people be dying to trade the only all-stars they have had in the past 15 years. Unreal.

+1. The guy is 28 years old. Unreal.

I understand the need to try and make the roster more cap flexible, but to do a complete rebuild at this point is nonsense.

Welcome to blow it up thread #793. Wonder what the headcount will be by the end of the roadtrip...should we get rid of Grunny, too? Maybe change the uniform colors? I hear plain black and white is all the thing nowadays...

New York, the only place you can be in first place and still blow your team up, fire your coach and hope other teams win chips before you do.

I do think Melo is flawed and is a good scorer that has many flaws
He simply does not have a high IQ, questionable leadership, not a good defender, lacks focus, and needs max attention on him
Most importantly he does not make anyone around him better a reason, especially when his shot is falling, he does not try to focus on other area's like rebounding/defense/facilitating instead
He would continue to shoot his way out of a slump regardless of the match up as he always wants to prove he is an elite scorer in the league

We were playing as a team without Melo in the lineup last year and this year and the NO ISOLATION/stand around offense
I am not saying we don't need Melo cause we do when if we are contending for a ring for playoffs but we have to consistently look to get high quality % shots on every possesion by attacking the defense rather than trying to just get the ball in the the bucket
The is a great flaw of Melo because he is so confident in his ability to score but we need better structure and consitency
He does have the killer instinct/confidence to be able to play in NY but unfortunately it can kill ourselves with our opponents when he is missing

Without Melo, the ball is flowing and we attack the DEF as a whole, and it is not all Melo's fault
Players tend to stand around because they want to give Melo the room to operate 1v1, but they have no clue HOW he is going to try to score...

Every time we dribble up the court, everyone is looking for the chance to give the ball to Melo almost every possesion and it gets predictable vs ATTACKING the defense and earning position for better/higher % shots
This part is on Woodson as well as the players on the court with Melo

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:pick 2 and 13 in this draft and well take Ben Gordon off their hands? If I can get both Kelly Olynck(has to be there for me to do it) and two of Nate Wolters CJ Mccolum or Erick Greene---I would do it. In a short time Kelly O will be better than Carmelo and these three guards are going to be great NBA players.

I know you are big on Kelly Olynick and Nate Walters but rarely do I disagree with your draft selections
In my opinion, their potentials are closer to a role player and will need time to develop as well, and low chance of being stars
I gave some comparable players in my opinion but I have doubts if their potential would even reach the comparisions

Kelly Olynik
------------------

I see Olynicks highest potential being between a bigger and slower Scola or/and a less athletic/skilled Blatche
I do not see him being a Marc Gasol and he is unlikely to be able to play many minutes at PF in today's NBA league
He is a Center that is not a athletic defender/shot blocker as well and is too slow to defend most PF's

Walters
----------------

Highest Potential being a poor mans Calderon/Vasquez
They are both solid players but like most players, they must be in the right situation/team/

he is slow and not athletic, he cannot play PG or SG, but will be stuck in between both positions
He can shoot and is smart, but we need speed/quickness to initiate an offense and stay in front of opposing G's as well, and he cannot do either
Having a big PG is nice when they have the ability to the athleticism/speed but I don't believe Walters has it or the handle/penetration/DEF

Again, they will need a couple of years to develop in to being just comparable to these players and they both have flaws that I question if they will transition to the NBA game with speed/athleticism
This is my opinion and I can be wrong, I never thought Noah would ever develop to the player he is now, I thought he would be closer to a Kris Humphries/Joel Prizbilla

The reason why we didn't keep David Lee over signing STAT was because STAT was considered a MVP type player that could attract other players/stars to come over to NY while Lee was an undersized hustle player that had improved all area's of his game since in the league
It is obvious that we made the wrong choice now but I think MOST people would believe it was an upgrade at the time

Now if we do trade Melo, do we really have anyone to STAR's from signing in the 2015 free agent class without OVERPAYING for their talents?
By all means if we do have to pay a MAX deal to keep Melo, I would much rather trade him, especially with this NEW CBA and his "max deal would be 20-25m per year"
In 2015 summer, I think he is worth 12-15m max for his age and flaw's, as we need to be able to sigh talent to surround him with to make up for it...
That is in the range of what Harden makes but Harden's penetration/ability to get fouled actually opens things up for his team

So if we do trade Melo I believe we would need picks/youth and a player that has the ability to attract other players
I am not sure if David Lee would attract players now vs back in 2010, but I think we would at least need a player of his caliber to replace Melo with picks
or someone young like Anthony Davis with lots of potential to be filled....

Nothing against the Melo trade but if people do not think that the way we were starting to play with Dantoni and the young team *SHARING THE BALL/TEAM CONCEPT* prior to the deal to attract players coming over
I highly doubt this team that you are assembly would attract anyone....

I think both Dantoni's and Woodson are both stubborn and have flaw's in their coaching/philosophies/ and have trouble making adjustments
Woodson should take the freedom away from some players and create more structure and actually run plays for X and O's rather than letting low IQ players make horrible decisions

First of I view Kelly as an NBA 4.
Kelly Olynck scores the ball so easy its scary. When you are 7 feet tall--the advantage is you dont need to be a freak athlete--although this tape will show more than enough athleticism for most 7 footers. He can handle pass has great touch advanced footwork that is getting better--heck the other night against ST Marys he used 3-4 post moves that looked like Kevin Mchale. He has range out to three can take guys off the dribble uses angles runs hard plays hard(just for example he shows 10 times the energy that a Cody Zeller plays with) This is the new PF a mutli dimensional 7 foot player. I think he can continue to work on his body--I dont think he is a great rebounder but there is no reason why he cant pull down 10 NBA rebounds. This guy is the biggest nightmare matchup in college basketball. This guy is going to be a nightmare to cover. You see how BYron Mullens has had a few nights where he does 25-14-2 then dissapers--this guy is MUCH MUCH better--will be consistent--this guy is going to be a guy at his peak who will be a 25-10 PF Ill say that right now. I base it off watching him several times studying his skill sets and how they would translate in the nBA. This is someone that will compare to a a
combo of Dirk and Pau Gasol---this guy also has high intensity which I love. This guy is the best college player--I believe that or at worst top 3. Just using this thought--what 4 on the Knicks could cover him? He could take them time and time again in and out--we have no 7 foot 4 and Tyson could not check him. There is not ONE player with his overall skillset in CBB.

As for Nate--he is simply under rated. How many times have you seen him play? He plays the game at his pace(like a Steve Nash) plays PG like u should keeps his head up and the game in front of him. He has pure 1 skills and happens to be 6-4 with long arms and he uses his length and ballhandling to make pinpoint passes that other guards cannot make. How is he slow? He moves very well up and down the court--gets to the rim at will. Last year if you watche d him against Terrance Ross and Tony Wroten--he time and time again abused 1st round draft picks---he did it to Kendall Williams this year--these are all top notch NCAA defenders who are and will be nBA players(and Ross was spick 7) Im not talking Summit league Im talking when he goes up against anyone--he will still give you 20-6-6--and yes SDST beat both Washington and New Mexcio (away games) this is not a Jimmer Freddette one skill wonder--this is a mutli skilled long PG. The only thing I worry with him is his J. His form is awkward and down the stretch of this season I think he went 5-22 to bring him under .41(3pt) to 39. Still played at 50% FG all year with true 61% Fg% --which is very high for a guard. Any other guards you know of putting up 23-6-6-2 50% under nightly double team?

BRIGGS wrote:

RonRon wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:pick 2 and 13 in this draft and well take Ben Gordon off their hands? If I can get both Kelly Olynck(has to be there for me to do it) and two of Nate Wolters CJ Mccolum or Erick Greene---I would do it. In a short time Kelly O will be better than Carmelo and these three guards are going to be great NBA players.

I know you are big on Kelly Olynick and Nate Walters but rarely do I disagree with your draft selections
In my opinion, their potentials are closer to a role player and will need time to develop as well, and low chance of being stars
I gave some comparable players in my opinion but I have doubts if their potential would even reach the comparisions

Kelly Olynik
------------------

I see Olynicks highest potential being between a bigger and slower Scola or/and a less athletic/skilled Blatche
I do not see him being a Marc Gasol and he is unlikely to be able to play many minutes at PF in today's NBA league
He is a Center that is not a athletic defender/shot blocker as well and is too slow to defend most PF's

Walters
----------------

Highest Potential being a poor mans Calderon/Vasquez
They are both solid players but like most players, they must be in the right situation/team/

he is slow and not athletic, he cannot play PG or SG, but will be stuck in between both positions
He can shoot and is smart, but we need speed/quickness to initiate an offense and stay in front of opposing G's as well, and he cannot do either
Having a big PG is nice when they have the ability to the athleticism/speed but I don't believe Walters has it or the handle/penetration/DEF

Again, they will need a couple of years to develop in to being just comparable to these players and they both have flaws that I question if they will transition to the NBA game with speed/athleticism
This is my opinion and I can be wrong, I never thought Noah would ever develop to the player he is now, I thought he would be closer to a Kris Humphries/Joel Prizbilla

The reason why we didn't keep David Lee over signing STAT was because STAT was considered a MVP type player that could attract other players/stars to come over to NY while Lee was an undersized hustle player that had improved all area's of his game since in the league
It is obvious that we made the wrong choice now but I think MOST people would believe it was an upgrade at the time

Now if we do trade Melo, do we really have anyone to STAR's from signing in the 2015 free agent class without OVERPAYING for their talents?
By all means if we do have to pay a MAX deal to keep Melo, I would much rather trade him, especially with this NEW CBA and his "max deal would be 20-25m per year"
In 2015 summer, I think he is worth 12-15m max for his age and flaw's, as we need to be able to sigh talent to surround him with to make up for it...
That is in the range of what Harden makes but Harden's penetration/ability to get fouled actually opens things up for his team

So if we do trade Melo I believe we would need picks/youth and a player that has the ability to attract other players
I am not sure if David Lee would attract players now vs back in 2010, but I think we would at least need a player of his caliber to replace Melo with picks
or someone young like Anthony Davis with lots of potential to be filled....

Nothing against the Melo trade but if people do not think that the way we were starting to play with Dantoni and the young team *SHARING THE BALL/TEAM CONCEPT* prior to the deal to attract players coming over
I highly doubt this team that you are assembly would attract anyone....

I think both Dantoni's and Woodson are both stubborn and have flaw's in their coaching/philosophies/ and have trouble making adjustments
Woodson should take the freedom away from some players and create more structure and actually run plays for X and O's rather than letting low IQ players make horrible decisions

First of I view Kelly as an NBA 4.
Kelly Olynck scores the ball so easy its scary. When you are 7 feet tall--the advantage is you dont need to be a freak athlete--although this tape will show more than enough athleticism for most 7 footers. He can handle pass has great touch advanced footwork that is getting better--heck the other night against ST Marys he used 3-4 post moves that looked like Kevin Mchale. He has range out to three can take guys off the dribble uses angles runs hard plays hard(just for example he shows 10 times the energy that a Cody Zeller plays with) This is the new PF a mutli dimensional 7 foot player. I think he can continue to work on his body--I dont think he is a great rebounder but there is no reason why he cant pull down 10 NBA rebounds. This guy is the biggest nightmare matchup in college basketball. This guy is going to be a nightmare to cover. You see how BYron Mullens has had a few nights where he does 25-14-2 then dissapers--this guy is MUCH MUCH better--will be consistent--this guy is going to be a guy at his peak who will be a 25-10 PF Ill say that right now. I base it off watching him several times studying his skill sets and how they would translate in the nBA. This is someone that will compare to a a
combo of Dirk and Pau Gasol---this guy also has high intensity which I love. This guy is the best college player--I believe that or at worst top 3. Just using this thought--what 4 on the Knicks could cover him? He could take them time and time again in and out--we have no 7 foot 4 and Tyson could not check him. There is not ONE player with his overall skillset in CBB.

hey notice stocktons little son with a couple of stockton like passes in there.

As for Nate--he is simply under rated. How many times have you seen him play? He plays the game at his pace(like a Steve Nash) plays PG like u should keeps his head up and the game in front of him. He has pure 1 skills and happens to be 6-4 with long arms and he uses his length and ballhandling to make pinpoint passes that other guards cannot make. How is he slow? He moves very well up and down the court--gets to the rim at will. Last year if you watche d him against Terrance Ross and Tony Wroten--he time and time again abused 1st round draft picks---he did it to Kendall Williams this year--these are all top notch NCAA defenders who are and will be nBA players(and Ross was spick 7) Im not talking Summit league Im talking when he goes up against anyone--he will still give you 20-6-6--and yes SDST beat both Washington and New Mexcio (away games) this is not a Jimmer Freddette one skill wonder--this is a mutli skilled long PG. The only thing I worry with him is his J. His form is awkward and down the stretch of this season I think he went 5-22 to bring him under .41(3pt) to 39. Still played at 50% FG all year with true 61% Fg% --which is very high for a guard. Any other guards you know of putting up 23-6-6-2 50% under nightly double team?

Trade Shumpert and our pick for Dudley and one of their 2 picks (their own and Lakers i think) and Olynyk can be had. I don't see him being as good as Pau, but i agree, very skilled, underrated, and will be a very good NBA PF. Would be a great fit here.

C Chandler
PF Olynyk
SF Anthony
SG Dudley
PG Felton

Would be a great way to retool and add new talent to fit around Melo without rebuilding.