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scylla
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11/17/2001  6:23 PM
Iverson's crossover, Duncan's bank shot, Shaq's baby hook, MJ's fadeaway...I think we've arrived at the point where we can add Allan Houston's increasingly familiar brand of unforced turnover to the list of patented moves currently on display across the league. Now, I know, he's an easy target, but that's kind of the point--he's been an easy target for quite some time now. It's not like his game has suddenly deteriorated post-Ewing. His inability to handle the ball under heavy (or moderate, or sometimes no) pressure is not a new development, but one tends to cut promising young players--particularly those with skills as promising as Houston's--some slack. After all, good ballhandling is just as much about hard work as it is natural aptitude, and Allan can't be accused of lacking in either department. Nonetheless, he has used up his benefit of the doubt. No one seems fully able to put their finger on it, but there is no doubt that Houston is not, and will likely never be, the franchise player he was once projected to be. He can be counted on to perform for one half of the season only, disappearing without fail EVERY YEAR for either the first or the second half of the season, consistently using the All Star break as his cut-off point. Lack of heart, fire, drive--call it what you will, but give Sprewell Houston's stroke and you have a monster (give him Houston's character and you have Monty Williams). None of this is Houston's fault, though. He is who he is, and has been, for years now. This summer was our chance to make something happen. I'm no Ernie Grunfeld (RealGM makes my head hurt), but did anyone--ANYONE--think it was a bright idea to max him out? If you listened closely, you could almost hear Knicks fans slapping their collective foreheads in unison. It can't even be excused as paying on potential, unless you really believe Allan's got some new tricks up his sleeve. His play will pick up some, I'm sure, but really, come on...was there even a negotiation? Who, for the umpteenth time, were they bidding against? I know it's poor form to let talented players leave for nothing, but would it have really hurt so much to talk him down to a number that won't preclude a trade (I'm sorry, but it's wishful thinking to believe anyone's taking him off our hands)? None of this is Layden's fault. I like what he's done, given the rather impossible situation he's inherited (although he did, in fine NYK fashion, screw the pooch come draft day). And rigid as he may be, I don't think we're going to find a better situational coach than JVG. Me, I blame Dolan. There was talk at the time of Houston's signing that Dolan didn't want to hardball Houston, largely because Allan's a model citizen...with a little help from his Palm Pilot, of course. That leaves Spree as our only truly viable trade asset, although the junk I hear associated with his name send shivers up my spine...Big Country? Jahidi White and Courtney Alexander? Sweet mother of god, no. I think all we can do as fans (and I AM a longtime loyal fan, dating from the bad old days of Al Bianchi) is get ready to be very, very patient, because it's only going to get worse, in a long-term kind of way. I wish there were, but there's no one trade that's going to 'put us right back in it'. Camby's return will help, but his absence seems to have inflated his value in some people's minds. Canning the season for a trip to the lottery, whether by design or by nature, is a longshot at best. No, there needs to be a purging, a salary dump of proportions unseen since the days of Gary Grant, Willie Anderson and Brad Lohaus. As long as management keeps trying this rebuilding-on-the-fly nonsense, exchanging players of similar value in the hopes that some intangibles will click into place, we fans--the ones who can separate our love of the franchise from our feelings for its personnel and leadership--are going to keep suffering. Because management, whether they're doling out $100M contracts to milquetoasts with jumpshots or insisting that there are, in fact, people sitting in the empty seats in the Garden, just doesn't seem willing to admit that this team is in a downswing.
AUTOADVERT
knicksbabyyeah
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Netherlands
11/17/2001  6:36 PM
Well we can trade Houston, we just don't have to be too picky in what we get in return. The time has comne to show him the door but somehow I doubt the Dolan's favorite will hit the road. Still Houston should be attractive to say Portland. They could unload a high paid player for a player who won't speak up and sometimes will score some major points. Houston is "mr nice guy" which is exactly what Portland might want. Memphis is a genuine possibility as well as Bryant Reeves is totally out of the picture with Lorenzen Wright playing like he is so they might jump at the oppertunity to get rid of him and bring in an extra scorer, they surely need it. There are more teams out there who would like to have Houston but the excessive salary he's got would mean they'd have to give too much up in return.
MCfan23
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USA
11/18/2001  6:11 AM
I think we should look to a trade with Portland. We know that they don't care about money/contracts and they have a few players on similar contracts to Houston (Pippen, Stoudamire, Kemp) who they may be willing to give up. Certainly, Mighty Mouse is a possibilty, as they've showed that they don't need him recently with Pippen playing the point, but we could definitely do with having him around.

This works:

New York trades:
Travis Knight $3,600,000 to Portland
Mark Jackson $3,860,000 to Portland
Allan Houston $12,750,000 to Portland (BYC Value $9,000,000)
Othella Harrington $2,475,000 to Portland
TOTAL: $22,685,000

Portland trades:
Damon Stoudamire $12,375,000 to New York
Zach Randolph $1,019,400 to New York
Chris Dudley $590,850 to New York
Dale Davis $7,010,000 to New York
TOTAL: $20,995,250


TRADE ACCEPTED

(Link: http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=407747)
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nykfan37
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Member: #118
11/18/2001  11:19 AM
First Time doing this but are these realistic....

To Chicago:
Houston
Postell
And if they want rights to Weiss

To Ny:
Oakley
Fizer
Unprotected 1st rounder

Krause is dumb and really wanted Houston and would of given a lot to him.....Bulls have really no intrest in fizer and are actively trying to get rid of him....and you know why oak is in this trade...I'll probably be bashed for this trade because it is in chicago's favor but we could get something good out of the draft because it will be a guranteed top 4 pick (Amare Stoudamire, Chris Duhon, Chris Marcus, Jason Williams?) And also Chicago doesn't really need the pick...they are set and just have to wait for the player to develop...
PG- Jamal Crawford
SG-Houston
SF-Eddie Robinson/Artest
PF-Chandler
C-Curry
Andrew
Posts: 26600
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USA
11/18/2001  1:17 PM
Posted by nykfan37:

I'll probably be bashed for this trade because it is in chicago's favor...

I don't think that any trade involving Allan Houston for a first round lottery pick would be in the other teams favor. I won't bash this trade...actually I think Chicago is getting screwed. I'd do Allan Houston for NJ's Richard Jefferson right now. He plays defense and has good athleticism. That seems to be the way of the 2 guard these days ala TMac and Kobe.
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Andrew
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USA
11/18/2001  1:22 PM
scylla, lets not forget Allan Houston's patented no-look pass into the first row of the crowd. How many other Max players have that in their repertoire.
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scylla
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Member: #97
11/18/2001  4:25 PM
Well, I figure if you're going to turn the ball over, at least do it with a little Oak-like flare. And I agree, any trade involving a pick for Houston--particularly Chicago's, who may just get desperate enough since their picks keep burning them--would be a steal.
martin
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USA
11/19/2001  12:21 PM
Posted by scylla:

Iverson's crossover, Duncan's bank shot, Shaq's baby hook, MJ's fadeaway...I think we've arrived at the point where we can add Allan Houston's increasingly familiar brand of unforced turnover to the list of patented moves currently on display across the league.

Whoa, good post. Rebuilding in New York (and LA) has to be timed. At the same time that you have to fill the seats, you have to trade your only assets and hope that you have no more than 1 bad season in a row and that you land that one player that will put you over the top. LA rolled the dice and landed Shaq daddy and Kobe. NY may have too many cap management issue to deal with.

Has anyone checked out SanAntonio's cap situation lately? After next year they dont have anyone on their cap. Now that's the way to do it: Arm wrestle even your best players into taking short team but hefty contracts (re: David Robinson). Who was daring Houston to leave? I would have. Really, if Chris Webber couldn't get a contract in another city, how is Allan supposed to do the same?

I think we all are in for a couple of years of bad Knicks play and early playoff exits (at best) if this type of management continues.

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