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GAME THREAD: KNICKS NETS THE SEAL OF DEFEAT GAME, 1/21 3:30 (ET) HOME GAME
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gunsnewing
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1/21/2013  6:11 PM
Hahn is right. Players don't want it as much as the fans. No sense of urgency early. Out rebounded by 15
AUTOADVERT
nixluva
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1/21/2013  6:13 PM
playa2 wrote:Can't judge most teams when their starting pg is out, he sets the table.

Im not discouraged waiting to see how we play when our key components are in place.

YEs we do miss Felton, but it's more than that. We have some clear options that Woody isn't choosing to focus on. Novak and STAT aren't being used to the best of their ability. There should be WAY more screens and curl plays run for Novak. There should be WAY more pure post ups for STAT when he's in there. Spread the floor and go low post with STAT and Curl play for Novak out at the 3. This should open up the floor for our other guys too. Keeps the defense off balance.
yellowboy90
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1/21/2013  6:15 PM
nixluva wrote:Woody gets in trouble when he goes back to his old ways of ISO ball. If you get an ISO after you've 1st run a good play then fine, but to just start off looking for the obvious ISO to Melo is just lame.

Also STAT was 6-10 and Melo was 11-29. I thought the whole point of this year was that we'd see more Low Post plays for our bigs. WTF??? STAT is actually having some success if we look to set him up on a traditional low Post up. Instead he's getting looks off scramble type plays. We should be playing the way we were to start the year with GREAT ball and player movement. We really miss the high % PnR to Tyson too.


IDK what you saw but they were looking at Amar'e a ton. He played well and is doing fine in the post but C'mon. I would like to have seen Melo high with a Amar'e in a PnR to close games if close over an iso though.
nixluva
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1/21/2013  6:17 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
nixluva wrote:Woody gets in trouble when he goes back to his old ways of ISO ball. If you get an ISO after you've 1st run a good play then fine, but to just start off looking for the obvious ISO to Melo is just lame.

Also STAT was 6-10 and Melo was 11-29. I thought the whole point of this year was that we'd see more Low Post plays for our bigs. WTF??? STAT is actually having some success if we look to set him up on a traditional low Post up. Instead he's getting looks off scramble type plays. We should be playing the way we were to start the year with GREAT ball and player movement. We really miss the high % PnR to Tyson too.

I only saw a total of about 20 minutes of this game but I saw Stat get the ball with position twice and bobble it and I saw him get his shot blocked. That Bropez block was brutal.

Anyone can get their shot blocked so that means nothing in the overall scheme of things. You can't make a judgment off that small sample. For one thing those weren't pure post ups where he was getting a feed from a proper angle and has his man sealed off. STAT is at an advantage when he can properly seal off his man and have space to work. That's the kind of post up i'm talking about. Spread the floor and force teams to have to double and leave shooters open. That's not what was happening on the plays you brought up.
Clean
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1/21/2013  6:17 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Woody gets in trouble when he goes back to his old ways of ISO ball. If you get an ISO after you've 1st run a good play then fine, but to just start off looking for the obvious ISO to Melo is just lame.

Also STAT was 6-10 and Melo was 11-29. I thought the whole point of this year was that we'd see more Low Post plays for our bigs. WTF??? STAT is actually having some success if we look to set him up on a traditional low Post up. Instead he's getting looks off scramble type plays. We should be playing the way we were to start the year with GREAT ball and player movement. We really miss the high % PnR to Tyson too.


IDK what you saw but they were looking at Amar'e a ton. He played well and is doing fine in the post but C'mon. I would like to have seen Melo high with a Amar'e in a PnR to close games if close over an iso though.

The play I would have ran would be a melo/Chandler high PNR with novak setting a screen for a stat curl to the elbow. After screen novak goto corner and melo drives to hoop. Melo wil have the option of novak in corner, stat off curl, chandler off PNR or reset to kidd.
StarksEwing1
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1/21/2013  6:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2013  6:18 PM
nixluva wrote:
playa2 wrote:Can't judge most teams when their starting pg is out, he sets the table.

Im not discouraged waiting to see how we play when our key components are in place.

YEs we do miss Felton, but it's more than that. We have some clear options that Woody isn't choosing to focus on. Novak and STAT aren't being used to the best of their ability. There should be WAY more screens and curl plays run for Novak. There should be WAY more pure post ups for STAT when he's in there. Spread the floor and go low post with STAT and Curl play for Novak out at the 3. This should open up the floor for our other guys too. Keeps the defense off balance.

to be fair novak isnt the shooter he was last year. I mean last year it was rare for him to have a bad night. this year its rare for him to have a good night. yes he doesnt get as many touches but still he has missed so many wide open shots this year that he drained last year
yellowboy90
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1/21/2013  6:21 PM
Clean wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Woody gets in trouble when he goes back to his old ways of ISO ball. If you get an ISO after you've 1st run a good play then fine, but to just start off looking for the obvious ISO to Melo is just lame.

Also STAT was 6-10 and Melo was 11-29. I thought the whole point of this year was that we'd see more Low Post plays for our bigs. WTF??? STAT is actually having some success if we look to set him up on a traditional low Post up. Instead he's getting looks off scramble type plays. We should be playing the way we were to start the year with GREAT ball and player movement. We really miss the high % PnR to Tyson too.


IDK what you saw but they were looking at Amar'e a ton. He played well and is doing fine in the post but C'mon. I would like to have seen Melo high with a Amar'e in a PnR to close games if close over an iso though.

The play I would have ran would be a melo/Chandler high PNR with novak setting a screen for a stat curl to the elbow. After screen novak goto corner and melo drives to hoop. Melo wil have the option of novak in corner, stat off curl, chandler off PNR or reset to kidd.


You right. Chandler makes more since because Amar'e keeps the D honest unlike Chandler being on the wing. I know us fans get upset by this lose but the KNicks played poorly and still had a chance. The best is yet to come. I like what I see from Melo and Amar'e. Need Felton back to get Chandler in it and give MElo credt from pg duties.
BRIGGS
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1/21/2013  6:23 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Hahn is right. Players don't want it as much as the fans. No sense of urgency early. Out rebounded by 15

I dont think that is true at all. These guys played hard. If you look at our team--its not like we are the 86 Celtics. We have talent but were not world beaters. This is a good team not a great team. Hopefully when Ray Felton comes back--we get one of Wallace or Camby back---Amare Shumpert have 0 restrictions--we can increase cohesion and chemistry. I do not think this team plays soft. Well improve with felton back
RIP Crushalot😞
nixluva
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1/21/2013  6:23 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
nixluva wrote:Woody gets in trouble when he goes back to his old ways of ISO ball. If you get an ISO after you've 1st run a good play then fine, but to just start off looking for the obvious ISO to Melo is just lame.

Also STAT was 6-10 and Melo was 11-29. I thought the whole point of this year was that we'd see more Low Post plays for our bigs. WTF??? STAT is actually having some success if we look to set him up on a traditional low Post up. Instead he's getting looks off scramble type plays. We should be playing the way we were to start the year with GREAT ball and player movement. We really miss the high % PnR to Tyson too.


IDK what you saw but they were looking at Amar'e a ton. He played well and is doing fine in the post but C'mon. I would like to have seen Melo high with a Amar'e in a PnR to close games if close over an iso though.

I know WTF i'm talking about. They're making STAT play in a crowd when they don't have to. You F'n spread the damn floor, swing the ball quickly and get him some really solid low post possessions. This is just common F'n sense. I've been watching ball for far too F'n long to not know what counts as great use of a big or not. I'm not wrong on this one. If you show me a game where he gets a majority of his looks in prime setups off good ball movement and spacing, then we'd be really talking, but this team often is playing with poor spacing cuz we don't run good plays. Those Melo ISO's are BAD BASKETBALL. It's our lowest % offense when we do that. Just look it up.

BRIGGS
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1/21/2013  6:25 PM
nixluva wrote:
playa2 wrote:Can't judge most teams when their starting pg is out, he sets the table.

Im not discouraged waiting to see how we play when our key components are in place.

YEs we do miss Felton, but it's more than that. We have some clear options that Woody isn't choosing to focus on. Novak and STAT aren't being used to the best of their ability. There should be WAY more screens and curl plays run for Novak. There should be WAY more pure post ups for STAT when he's in there. Spread the floor and go low post with STAT and Curl play for Novak out at the 3. This should open up the floor for our other guys too. Keeps the defense off balance.

Novak is scaring me. Remember he was taken completely out of the Miami series in the playoffs and now shots he hit last year with space hes much more inconsistent with. Hes a one trick pony and his trick hasnt been as good. He has to knock down atleast 2 out of 5 shots

RIP Crushalot😞
gunsnewing
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1/21/2013  6:27 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Hahn is right. Players don't want it as much as the fans. No sense of urgency early. Out rebounded by 15

I dont think that is true at all. These guys played hard. If you look at our team--its not like we are the 86 Celtics. We have talent but were not world beaters. This is a good team not a great team. Hopefully when Ray Felton comes back--we get one of Wallace or Camby back---Amare Shumpert have 0 restrictions--we can increase cohesion and chemistry. I do not think this team plays soft. Well improve with felton back

No question we need to get Felton back but you can't get outrebounded by 15. Don't know if we will every see Camby/Sheed healthy for a long stretch of games at any point this year
StarksEwing1
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1/21/2013  6:28 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
playa2 wrote:Can't judge most teams when their starting pg is out, he sets the table.

Im not discouraged waiting to see how we play when our key components are in place.

YEs we do miss Felton, but it's more than that. We have some clear options that Woody isn't choosing to focus on. Novak and STAT aren't being used to the best of their ability. There should be WAY more screens and curl plays run for Novak. There should be WAY more pure post ups for STAT when he's in there. Spread the floor and go low post with STAT and Curl play for Novak out at the 3. This should open up the floor for our other guys too. Keeps the defense off balance.

Novak is scaring me. Remember he was taken completely out of the Miami series in the playoffs and now shots he hit last year with space hes much more inconsistent with. Hes a one trick pony and his trick hasnt been as good. He has to knock down atleast 2 out of 5 shots

he was a journeyman last year who finally got a oppurtunity so he played well and then he got payed and now he is not the same player. Unfortunetly i've seen that so many times in sports
Swishfm3
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1/21/2013  6:29 PM
Sucks that we lost but that was a damn good game...Johnson went off at the end. It was obvious that JR couldnt stop him and thought Shump or Brewer should have been in the closing minutes.

I hope we play the Nets in the playoffs...
Papabear
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1/21/2013  6:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2013  6:44 PM
nixluva wrote:
mrKnickShot wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:bad pass

no it was not!

Stat needs to learn how to squeeze that

STAT is pretty much one of the all time greatest catch and finish guys in NBA history and you think he has bad hands? Come on dude. How many passes have you seen him miss over his career when he's had good PG's passing him the ball? This is the same crap people said about Tyson. It's HOW you pass to bigs that makes the difference.


Papabear Says

Well maybe Stat was eating some greasy fryed chicken before the game cause he sure looks like he has slippery hands lately.

Papabear
yellowboy90
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1/21/2013  6:30 PM
STAT can do no wrong. Watch you see you don't see.
nixluva
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1/21/2013  6:30 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
playa2 wrote:Can't judge most teams when their starting pg is out, he sets the table.

Im not discouraged waiting to see how we play when our key components are in place.

YEs we do miss Felton, but it's more than that. We have some clear options that Woody isn't choosing to focus on. Novak and STAT aren't being used to the best of their ability. There should be WAY more screens and curl plays run for Novak. There should be WAY more pure post ups for STAT when he's in there. Spread the floor and go low post with STAT and Curl play for Novak out at the 3. This should open up the floor for our other guys too. Keeps the defense off balance.

Novak is scaring me. Remember he was taken completely out of the Miami series in the playoffs and now shots he hit last year with space hes much more inconsistent with. Hes a one trick pony and his trick hasnt been as good. He has to knock down atleast 2 out of 5 shots

True that Novak isn't as hot as last year, but I also think part of that is that too many of his shots are not open and in rhythm. Also he needs to get more actual touches. We don't swing the ball as much as we did in the past. Not everyone is getting to touch the ball and get a feel. The ball is being dominated by Melo n JR where they never give the ball up. They're dribbling way more than they did to start the year, when the team was making multiple passes. It's sometimes little things like that which make all the difference.
gunsnewing
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1/21/2013  6:31 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:Sucks that we lost but that was a damn good game...Johnson went off at the end. It was obvious that JR couldnt stop him and thought Shump or Brewer should have been in the closing minutes.

I hope we play the Nets in the playoffs...

Shump was on him initially but PJ outcoached Woodson on the offensive end. They constantly freed up Joe
gunsnewing
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1/21/2013  6:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/21/2013  6:34 PM
nixluva wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
playa2 wrote:Can't judge most teams when their starting pg is out, he sets the table.

Im not discouraged waiting to see how we play when our key components are in place.

YEs we do miss Felton, but it's more than that. We have some clear options that Woody isn't choosing to focus on. Novak and STAT aren't being used to the best of their ability. There should be WAY more screens and curl plays run for Novak. There should be WAY more pure post ups for STAT when he's in there. Spread the floor and go low post with STAT and Curl play for Novak out at the 3. This should open up the floor for our other guys too. Keeps the defense off balance.

Novak is scaring me. Remember he was taken completely out of the Miami series in the playoffs and now shots he hit last year with space hes much more inconsistent with. Hes a one trick pony and his trick hasnt been as good. He has to knock down atleast 2 out of 5 shots

True that Novak isn't as hot as last year, but I also think part of that is that too many of his shots are not open and in rhythm. Also he needs to get more actual touches. We don't swing the ball as much as we did in the past. Not everyone is getting to touch the ball and get a feel. The ball is being dominated by Melo n JR where they never give the ball up. They're dribbling way more than they did to start the year, when the team was making multiple passes. It's sometimes little things like that which make all the difference.

Let's see when Felton gets back. This group just doesn't get it and neither does Woodson. No PG penetration is killer
3G4G
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1/21/2013  6:36 PM
Another game as to why I don't want to see it come down to a final possession....


One of the Biggest Myths of all-time... Knick fans and their thinking with Melo


"Hey At Least We Have A Go To Guy Like Melo So When The Game Is On The Line He'll Make The Clutch Baskets"


NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!


Oh and the Nets have a guy who can do the same and he's hit I believe 3-4 Game winning shots this year for them. It's a lot to ask of Melo too(although as he said in his Jordan commercial 5yrs ago he feels he's going to make those shots every time) it's not what you want to hang your hat on especially games like this and playoff games to come. They are going to be drag out slow it down slug fests requiring teams to spend tons of energy playing defense while getting D'd up on offense. Melo didn't have anymore energy down the stretch. He took a beating/delivered a beating all game and came up short again.
yellowboy90
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1/21/2013  6:36 PM
I would say Novak is better at 7-8 shots a game and not 3 or 4. He is a volume 3 pt shooter. He does get open looks though just not as many. A play they should try for Noavak is the elevator play. Teams guarding Novak with smaller quicker players that can stay with him. It has to be great screens to free him.
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