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Return of a Savior Presents Only Problems
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AnubisADL
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12/23/2012  9:57 AM

Return of a Savior Presents Only Problems
By HOWARD BECK

Sometime soon, perhaps next week, perhaps even in Phoenix, the city of his greatest basketball exploits, Amar’e Stoudemire will tuck in that familiar No. 1 jersey, adjust his goggles and take a leap into the great unknown.

For the first time in his career, Stoudemire is a man without a clear mission.

Where does a 30-year-old former All-Star with suspect knees, an albatross contract and a redundant skill set fit on a talent-rich, title-contending team? Does he fit at all? Can a prideful star who calls himself Stat find happiness as a role player? A bench player? A drifting satellite in Carmelo Anthony’s orbit? Is Stoudemire still essential to the Knicks’ cause?

These questions once might have sounded insane.

Two years ago, Stoudemire practically saved the franchise with his signature and a four-word proclamation: “The Knicks are back.” Even 12 months ago, he was considered a vital, if unwieldy, co-star with Anthony.

But the landscape has changed radically at Madison Square Garden, where the Knicks have transformed, seemingly overnight, into the Eastern Conference’s dominant team, rolling to a 19-6 record.

They are thriving with Anthony as their undisputed centerpiece, with Tyson Chandler dunking and defending, with Jason Kidd orchestrating, with Steve Novak shooting and with J. R. Smith just being J. R. Smith.

They are talented, deep and cohesive, every role well defined.

It is hard to see where an offense-minded, past-his-prime power forward fits into this gloriously reimagined Knicks universe, but these are the issues that Coach Mike Woodson must confront as Stoudemire nears his return from knee surgery.

Woodson has demurred on the topic. Stoudemire has given boilerplate “whatever it takes to win” responses, as he must.

Yet the Knicks have already moved on in so many ways, both on and off the court.

This past summer, the Knicks offered Stoudemire to nearly every team in the league — “available for free,” as one rival executive put it. But they found no takers because of his diminished production, his health and his contract, which has three years and $65 million remaining (counting this season) and which is uninsured against a career-ending knee injury.

In February, the Knicks wanted to send Stoudemire to Toronto in a deal for Andrea Bargnani, a person briefed on the discussion said. But the proposal was vetoed by James L. Dolan, the Garden chairman, before it ever reached the Raptors (who would not have made the deal anyway, team officials there said).

Before that, the Knicks tried to package Stoudemire and Chandler in a bid to land Dwight Howard.

The implication is clear: for all his scoring prowess and star power, Stoudemire is no longer viewed as a critical piece. The reasons are obvious, too.

The Knicks have been inept with Anthony and Stoudemire in the lineup, going 30-36 over parts of two seasons and 1-7 in the playoffs. Advanced metrics show the Knicks are demonstrably worse — both offensively and defensively — when the two share the court.

Optimists contend that with Kidd and Raymond Felton running the offense, the Anthony-Stoudemire experiment could be saved. The repeated attempts to dump Stoudemire suggest that team officials do not share that confidence.

The Knicks have a functional issue here. Several, in fact.

Anthony is now the face of the franchise and the No. 1 option on the floor. He is playing brilliantly at power forward — Stoudemire’s position — using his quickness to beat bigger defenders. If Stoudemire starts, it will push Anthony to small forward, blunt some of his effectiveness and create the same awkward logjam the Knicks had before, with two stars competing for touches.

In his prime, Stoudemire was the N.B.A.’s most lethal finisher in the pick-and-roll. But that role has been usurped, too, by Chandler, who is taller and longer, with a bigger bounce and healthier knees.

The obvious solution is to have Stoudemire anchor the second unit, running the pick-and-roll with Pablo Prigioni, while Novak, Smith and Rasheed Wallace spread the floor with their 3-point shooting.

But playing as a reserve means fewer minutes and a diminished profile. For all his public diplomacy, it seems doubtful Stoudemire would be content. On Thursday, he told reporters he was ready to “return back to dominance,” which hardly sounds like the words of a player ready to cede the spotlight.

Ask those who have worked with Stoudemire, and they eventually invoke the same word: prideful. Not selfish or egocentric, but simply prideful — a man who views himself in grand terms and spends every minute trying to live up to the image. At age 30, even after multiple knee operations and back problems, Stoudemire still views himself as an elite player.

Reintegrating Stoudemire — whether as a starter or a reserve — might be the greatest challenge the Knicks face this season. (His famously poor defense is also problematic.)

It is a cruel crossroads for Stoudemire, one he never could have foreseen. He surely deserves a better fate.

Stoudemire was the one who planted his flag in New York in the summer of 2010, after every other star had rejected the Knicks. (He was in fact their sixth choice, after LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson, a person involved in the discussion said.) His arrival made the franchise respectable again, paving the way for Anthony, Chandler and Kidd.

So now the Knicks are back, just as Stoudemire promised two years and five months ago. But these are no longer Stoudemire’s Knicks.

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/sports/basketball/stoudemire-savior-of-knicks-now-presents-only-problems.html

Glad Knicks management is trying to dump Amare.

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CrushAlot
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12/23/2012  10:07 AM
Beck has been pretty negative despite the Knicks success this year. I believe he wrote a pro-Dantoni/anti-melo article when the lakers came to MSG. He is one of my favorite writers but I haven't enjoyed his knick stuff much lately.
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newyorknewyork
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12/23/2012  10:41 AM
I think Tyson and Amare is the problem not Melo and Amare. Tyson has to be the featured PNR big man in order to be effective offensively since he has no back to basket game and no jump shot. Amare has a 18ft jumper which will be needed for Amare and Tyson to work. As will the back to basket game Amare worked on in the summer. If Melo maintains a quality 3 point % there should be no problems from that end.
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Vmart
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12/23/2012  10:47 AM
With all the injuries to the big men on the Knicks Amare will be much needed. Only problem Amare will be taking his sweet time getting back.
gunsnewing
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12/23/2012  11:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2012  12:31 PM
I thought Howard Beck writing for Brooklyn now? If Brooklyn is going to be taken seriously they are going to need more media coverage not their beat guys writing about the knicks!
holfresh
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12/23/2012  12:29 PM
What's a basketball season without a few anti-Knick articles...Haven't seen any in the last few weeks...I can't wait until STAT gets back...
Uptown
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12/23/2012  12:38 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:I think Tyson and Amare is the problem not Melo and Amare. Tyson has to be the featured PNR big man in order to be effective offensively since he has no back to basket game and no jump shot. Amare has a 18ft jumper which will be needed for Amare and Tyson to work. As will the back to basket game Amare worked on in the summer. If Melo maintains a quality 3 point % there should be no problems from that end.

^
This...Been saying that from day one. When Amare first arrived and was on that great run, he was the feature PNR guy with Felt and his mid range Jay was money. Last year, Chandler became the feature PNR guy and Amare could never find the range on his jay following his back injury.

I would play Amare in the post, when he is in the game with Chandler and when Chandler goes out, make Amare the feature PNR guy. Hopefully, Amare has found his confidence in his jumper this year aswell...

smackeddog
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12/23/2012  1:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2012  1:21 PM
Ah, this makes me nostalgic for the old "Knicks are better without Ewing" stories that the media used to blow out of their arses back in the day. Seriously, read this:


Could the Knicks be better without Ewing?
Posted: Wednesday, May 31, 2000
By Chris Sheridan
Associated Press

PURCHASE, N.Y. -- Patrick Ewing wasn't talking Tuesday, depriving the basketball world of his insight into the big debate surrounding the New York Knicks: Are they a better team without him when they're playing the Indiana Pacers?

The Knicks have won two games in a row without Ewing to tie the Eastern Conference finals 2-2, and it's unknown whether Ewing's sore foot will be pain-free enough to allow him to play in Game 5 Wednesday night at Indianapolis.

Some Knicks fans, citing New York's 5-1 record against Indiana in the last two postseasons when Ewing has been injured, are hoping he'll continue to sit.

Such a notion infuriates coach Jeff Van Gundy, who has described the theory as ''asinine'' in recent days. When he was asked about it following Game 4, Van Gundy gave such an impassioned response that he almost couldn't get the words out of his mouth fast enough.

Asked again after practice Tuesday, Van Gundy would barely discuss it.

''I've done that enough,'' he said. ''I'll let the foolish remain foolish and not even try to educate them.''

There is no bigger Ewing loyalist than Van Gundy, and any anti-Ewing talk is considered blasphemy in his mind.

''What makes me laugh about that number (the 5-1 record without Ewing) is how the media can manipulate it,'' Van Gundy said.

Ewing's availability for Game 5 will be a game-time decision. Ewing tested his sore right foot during warmups Monday and decided the tendinitis was too painful. With backups Chris Dudley and Kurt Thomas playing center, New York defeated Indiana 91-89 in Game 4.

''We were able to do more of what we're comfortable doing, like drive to the basket,'' Knicks guard Allan Houston said. ''But the key is being able to do both. If Patrick's in, we've still got to be able to do those things, but pick our moments. It's a fine line, but ultimately if we can do it, it's going to make us the best team.''

The Knicks' record without Ewing looks good over the past two seasons, but injuries have actually reduced his availability against the Pacers for the past three seasons. He had a fractured wrist in 1998 and Achilles' tendinitis in 1999.

Over that span, including Game 2 this season when Ewing played just seven minutes, the Knicks are 2-6 against the Pacers with Ewing, 5-2 without him. Included in those five playoff losses is Game 5 of the second round in 1998, when Ewing played his third game after returning from a broken wrist. Many felt Van Gundy stuck with him too long, playing him for 34 minutes, as the Knicks were eliminated.

That memory, along with the sight of the Knicks operating a more fluid, uptempo offense in Games 3 and 4, are among the factors fueling the with-or-without debate as the 37-year-old Ewing again chases the championship that has eluded him throughout his 15-year career.

''I don't think it's fair to Patrick,'' Houston said. ''When you think of the Knicks, the first name you think of is Patrick Ewing. It's not fair to Patrick to have to see that and hear that. If we win the championship, Patrick has to be there.''

Of the three injured Knicks, Ewing was the only one to sit out Game 4.

Latrell Sprewell played 44 minutes with a broken bone in his foot and scored 12 points, and Marcus Camby played on a sprained knee, grabbing nine rebounds and blocking three shots in 18 minutes.

Two of Sprewell's points came on a soaring dunk through the lane in the first quarter.

''My eyes got so big on that play, I don't know if I felt anything then. But the pain is there,'' Sprewell said.

Sprewell also disagrees with Ewing's detractors who say he clogs the middle and slows down the offense. It's more a case, according to Sprewell, of the rest of the Knicks not turning their desperation up a notch.

''In Game 1, Patrick was there, and I still got to the basket. That's not what's preventing us from attacking,'' Sprewell said. ''I think we have the luxury of having Patrick there sometimes, so we're a little lazy and not as aggressive because we have him to dump the ball to.''

Breaking down the statistics from the last three playoff series against the Pacers, the Knicks are a better rebounding team with him -- but a better shooting team and running team without him.

The Pacers are one of the older and slower teams in the league, and their lack of quickness hurts them when the Knicks drive the lane, push the ball upcourt and look to get more shot attempts out of Houston, Sprewell and Larry Johnson.

In the eight games with Ewing, the Knicks have shot 43.9 percent from the field and scored an average of 11.6 fast-break points against Indiana. In the seven games without him, they've shot 45.7 percent and averaged 14.3 fast-break points.

Will Ewing come back Wednesday night? Nobody knows for sure; lots of people have their hopes.

''Look at the percentage with or without him,'' Indiana center Rik Smits said. ''I hope he comes back.''

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1891&dat=20000531&id=57kfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=39cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1599,3591836

The media has about 4 or 5 set story templates that they love to recycle with different names.

IronWillGiroud
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12/23/2012  1:20 PM
Depressing article by beck, could do better howard

It's not that dramatic: amar'e will come back, drop some buckets, team will be alright. Guy's solid.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
gunsnewing
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12/23/2012  1:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/23/2012  1:39 PM
Again why is the Nyets beatwriter writing about the Knicks and not the Nyets?
smackeddog
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12/23/2012  1:25 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Again is the Nyets beatwriter writing about the Knicks and not the Nyets?

Exactly. Probably because he spent years covering a poor team with lousy personalities and more internal turmoil and drama than wins, then when he finally switches teams hoping for a fresh start, finds his old team starts winning and getting professional, whilst his new team starts imploding resulting in turmoil, lousy personalities and more drama than wins.

arkrud
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12/23/2012  3:25 PM
smackeddog wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Again is the Nyets beatwriter writing about the Knicks and not the Nyets?

Exactly. Probably because he spent years covering a poor team with lousy personalities and more internal turmoil and drama than wins, then when he finally switches teams hoping for a fresh start, finds his old team starts winning and getting professional, whilst his new team starts imploding resulting in turmoil, lousy personalities and more drama than wins.

Never change the laines in traffic... we will all get to the final destination at about the same time.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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12/23/2012  3:49 PM
Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ
Woodson says the plan is for Stoudemire to practice against his own Knick teammates once they return from their West Coast trip
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12/23/2012  4:12 PM
smackeddog wrote:Ah, this makes me nostalgic for the old "Knicks are better without Ewing" stories that the media used to blow out of their arses back in the day. Seriously, read this:


Could the Knicks be better without Ewing?
Posted: Wednesday, May 31, 2000
By Chris Sheridan
Associated Press

PURCHASE, N.Y. -- Patrick Ewing wasn't talking Tuesday, depriving the basketball world of his insight into the big debate surrounding the New York Knicks: Are they a better team without him when they're playing the Indiana Pacers?

The Knicks have won two games in a row without Ewing to tie the Eastern Conference finals 2-2, and it's unknown whether Ewing's sore foot will be pain-free enough to allow him to play in Game 5 Wednesday night at Indianapolis.

Some Knicks fans, citing New York's 5-1 record against Indiana in the last two postseasons when Ewing has been injured, are hoping he'll continue to sit.

Such a notion infuriates coach Jeff Van Gundy, who has described the theory as ''asinine'' in recent days. When he was asked about it following Game 4, Van Gundy gave such an impassioned response that he almost couldn't get the words out of his mouth fast enough.

Asked again after practice Tuesday, Van Gundy would barely discuss it.

''I've done that enough,'' he said. ''I'll let the foolish remain foolish and not even try to educate them.''

There is no bigger Ewing loyalist than Van Gundy, and any anti-Ewing talk is considered blasphemy in his mind.

''What makes me laugh about that number (the 5-1 record without Ewing) is how the media can manipulate it,'' Van Gundy said.

Ewing's availability for Game 5 will be a game-time decision. Ewing tested his sore right foot during warmups Monday and decided the tendinitis was too painful. With backups Chris Dudley and Kurt Thomas playing center, New York defeated Indiana 91-89 in Game 4.

''We were able to do more of what we're comfortable doing, like drive to the basket,'' Knicks guard Allan Houston said. ''But the key is being able to do both. If Patrick's in, we've still got to be able to do those things, but pick our moments. It's a fine line, but ultimately if we can do it, it's going to make us the best team.''

The Knicks' record without Ewing looks good over the past two seasons, but injuries have actually reduced his availability against the Pacers for the past three seasons. He had a fractured wrist in 1998 and Achilles' tendinitis in 1999.

Over that span, including Game 2 this season when Ewing played just seven minutes, the Knicks are 2-6 against the Pacers with Ewing, 5-2 without him. Included in those five playoff losses is Game 5 of the second round in 1998, when Ewing played his third game after returning from a broken wrist. Many felt Van Gundy stuck with him too long, playing him for 34 minutes, as the Knicks were eliminated.

That memory, along with the sight of the Knicks operating a more fluid, uptempo offense in Games 3 and 4, are among the factors fueling the with-or-without debate as the 37-year-old Ewing again chases the championship that has eluded him throughout his 15-year career.

''I don't think it's fair to Patrick,'' Houston said. ''When you think of the Knicks, the first name you think of is Patrick Ewing. It's not fair to Patrick to have to see that and hear that. If we win the championship, Patrick has to be there.''

Of the three injured Knicks, Ewing was the only one to sit out Game 4.

Latrell Sprewell played 44 minutes with a broken bone in his foot and scored 12 points, and Marcus Camby played on a sprained knee, grabbing nine rebounds and blocking three shots in 18 minutes.

Two of Sprewell's points came on a soaring dunk through the lane in the first quarter.

''My eyes got so big on that play, I don't know if I felt anything then. But the pain is there,'' Sprewell said.

Sprewell also disagrees with Ewing's detractors who say he clogs the middle and slows down the offense. It's more a case, according to Sprewell, of the rest of the Knicks not turning their desperation up a notch.

''In Game 1, Patrick was there, and I still got to the basket. That's not what's preventing us from attacking,'' Sprewell said. ''I think we have the luxury of having Patrick there sometimes, so we're a little lazy and not as aggressive because we have him to dump the ball to.''

Breaking down the statistics from the last three playoff series against the Pacers, the Knicks are a better rebounding team with him -- but a better shooting team and running team without him.

The Pacers are one of the older and slower teams in the league, and their lack of quickness hurts them when the Knicks drive the lane, push the ball upcourt and look to get more shot attempts out of Houston, Sprewell and Larry Johnson.

In the eight games with Ewing, the Knicks have shot 43.9 percent from the field and scored an average of 11.6 fast-break points against Indiana. In the seven games without him, they've shot 45.7 percent and averaged 14.3 fast-break points.

Will Ewing come back Wednesday night? Nobody knows for sure; lots of people have their hopes.

''Look at the percentage with or without him,'' Indiana center Rik Smits said. ''I hope he comes back.''

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1891&dat=20000531&id=57kfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=39cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1599,3591836

The media has about 4 or 5 set story templates that they love to recycle with different names.

Good find....

smackeddog
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12/24/2012  4:54 AM
Can't believe anyone who has watched the past few games would put any stock in the 'this team doesn't need/ is better without Amar'e' argument- this article should really have been written back when we were playing elite defense in the first 9 or 10 games. Nowadays you watch this team and it's obvious we need a boost. Can't wait for Amar'e to get back.
misterearl
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12/24/2012  5:33 AM
Save Us

smackeddog wrote:Can't believe anyone who has watched the past few games would put any stock in the 'this team doesn't need/ is better without Amar'e' argument- this article should really have been written back when we were playing elite defense in the first 9 or 10 games. Nowadays you watch this team and it's obvious we need a boost. Can't wait for Amar'e to get back.

Amare is a 6'10 player with polished post moves. We currently play a center who can only score from three feet in, and a precious four who needs his minutes reduced. Our combustible 6'11 ball whisperer and our 6'11 Fragile Forward are both out until February.

Amare on the court is a good thing. Forget the headlines. Forget what you know.

Mike Woodson's job is to make it work.

Use February to get acquainted. Check out the brutal March schedule. We will need everyone.

once a knick always a knick
AnubisADL
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12/24/2012  8:52 AM
Amare plays no D people. Doesnt matter if we score more points and give up just as many.
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babyKnicks
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12/24/2012  9:17 AM
Amare and melo and chandler are 8-2 when playing together under Woodson.

That's all we need to know.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
gunsnewing
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12/24/2012  10:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/24/2012  10:23 AM
AnubisADL wrote:Amare plays no D people. Doesnt matter if we score more points and give up just as many.

Defense can't get any worse than it is right now. At least we will have an easier time scoring

misterearl
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12/24/2012  10:25 AM
Clean Slate

Amar'e Stoudemire is 0-0 under head coach Mike Woodson, playing alongside Jason Kidd, Ray Felton, Carmelo, Sheed, Tyson, Pablom Cope, Shump or Camby.

Let it play.

once a knick always a knick
Return of a Savior Presents Only Problems

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