earthmansurfer wrote:

NUPE wrote:
I don't believe Felton is dumb. That is a pretty childish statement. Felton's TO are generally low. Felton generally makes smart plays. Felton's shooting is not great but Felton's primary role in the offense is not to shoot when we have a healthy team. What part of this simple statement don't you understand.

In a situation like today, who else was gonna take the shots. Brewer can't create. Chandler can't create. Kidd can't create. Novak can't create. Prig generally does not create. The only creators were JR, Copeland and Felton so they were the ones that were going to take the shots and dominate the ball. It's literally common sense.

There are a few Knicks that did not play great today but for some reason the focus is on Felton. LoL!

As for Lin. He is inferior to Felton across the board, stat wise. Lin has been a debacle and absolute disappointment. The fact that people are in this thread and pretending otherwise is ABSURD and reeks of bias.

Felton has a GREAT handle, but that is not synonymous with smarts. I wouldn't say Felton is dumb, but he sure ain't on the smart side. I guess average to below average smart wise. To win, it really helps to have a smart pg, like Kidd, Lin, etc. Felton does not take chances with bad passes though, he is great there also. He doesn't see the court anywhere near Lin though.

Lin has had a mostly bad year, by last years standards anyway. But he is a 24 year old, in his second year and putting up 11pts, 6assists, 4reb, 2stls and that is playing next to a ball dominant G in Harden. Lin's FG% is up to 41% after that horrid start - guess what, that is slightly above Feltons FG%. Lin is playing a lot better than some 2nd year pg's drafted in the first half of the draft around when he came out into the NBA (Fredette, etc.)

You are right, Felton is playing pretty good, but if anything happens to Melo or Stat in the playoffs and we need a new #1 or just #2 in general (not depending on Stat making his 3rd or 4th injury comeback in 2 or 3 seasons) we are in hot water. We can't overlook that and we saw it last night. The playoffs are a different animal - I do like our chances though. I think like many people here, we are just saying it was stupid to let a talent like Lin go for nothing. Lin is getting better and better as the season goes on, his health is almost back to where it needs to be. I just think we would be a better team with him on it - He can create...

When you watch Lin and Felton both play, don't make it into a stat argument (e.g. - There is no stat for court vision, will, etc.) - Lin still has "IT"...

You state Felton is playing pretty good. That is all I have stated. It's that simple. I am also not calling Felton a stud or great or claiming Felton will lead us to a title. The great thing is that Felton was brought here NOT to lead us to a title but to be a solid roll player.

If the top two players go down on any team during the playoffs then any team would be in trouble. This expectation that a roll player would morph into an all star pg is a bit much. I don't expect Felton to carry this team when Melo and Amar'e are out. He is not that type of player. What Felton is, is a solid pg that will run an offense and play defense and generally get the ball to players where they excel. That is what I expect of him.

I think we were fortunate to beat the Heat and lowly Cavs without Melo / Amar'e. I think we have been extremely fortunate to be 18 - 6 right now despite the number of injuries. I am merely a glass half full type of person.

tkf wrote:

nehemiah wrote:You know, you're not quite the guy to judge who's dumb or not with your "let's trash Lin thread" (it was named something different, but that's what it was.

That thread was supposed to be objective and about numbers. Numbers for this game was lopsided as Lin clearly outplayed Felton. Yet you're still here trashing Lin and propping up Felton -- this denial is not good for the Knicks. Be a damn man for once -- Lin didn't get lucky tonight -- that's his game. What did he do tonight that is anomalous? He is not a great shooter, but shoots adequately at times. He dishes the ball well and gets to the basket well. He plays hard and not selfish. These are evident to most everyone but you.

Stop being such a vagina.

NUPE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

NUPE wrote:It's hilarious to me that you have people in here trumpeting Lin over Felton as if Lin has not been ass-cheeks this year. Literally trash. It is not even debatable. Are we going to pretend Lin has not been complete trash this year?!?! LMAO! Yea, I will take Felton.

Also, last time I checked, the Heat and Mavs won the last two titles without a star pg. The Lakers won without a star pg. The Rockets won without a star pg. The Pistons won without a star pg (Billups is not a star). Also, for the delusional posters, LIN IS NOT A STAR PG, NOT REMOTELY and PROBABLY NEVER. Lin sucks thus far this season and has inferior stats to Felton. Welcome to reality! LOL!

This team is built around Melo and Amar'e carrying the offense and if both are out the offense will struggle noticeably. Blaming Felton is laughable.

I know you kids are starved to scream I told you so about Felton so have at it. However, I will not pretend that Lin has been better than Felton. LoL!

You don't need a "star" pg to win

You need a smart PG to win.

Felton is a dumb PG

I don't believe Felton is dumb. That is a pretty childish statement. Felton's TO are generally low. Felton generally makes smart plays. Felton's shooting is not great but Felton's primary role in the offense is not to shoot when we have a healthy team. What part of this simple statement don't you understand.

In a situation like today, who else was gonna take the shots. Brewer can't create. Chandler can't create. Kidd can't create. Novak can't create. Prig generally does not create. The only creators were JR, Copeland and Felton so they were the ones that were going to take the shots and dominate the ball. It's literally common sense.

There are a few Knicks that did not play great today but for some reason the focus is on Felton. LoL!

As for Lin. He is inferior to Felton across the board, stat wise. Lin has been a debacle and absolute disappointment. The fact that people are in this thread and pretending otherwise is ABSURD and reeks of bias.

yea, he goes out of the way time and time again to trash lin.. it is over the top... I may not like carmelo, but I don't say he sucks..nupe has a hard time giving credit especially if it goes against his agenda..

Stating facts is not trashing Lin. Lin looked good last night. Kudos to Lin. However, for the lions share of the season Lin has been bad.

NUPE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nehemiah wrote:

NUPE wrote: Also, the thread you referred to simply tracked Lin's stats. I don't see how that is trashing Lin.

We already had this discussion, remember NUPE? You started tracking his stats when Lin's numbers weren't good. How come you never tracked Landry Fields' stats? He played more games as a Knick, and contributed more. You still can't man up because Lin might start producing and you don't want to look the fool.

It's all right. We've got Felton. According to you, he is just an awesome PG. Damn the numbers.

Can we find a post where Nupe is critical of a Knick (not an ex Knick)? Enough said!!

The Knciks are 18 - 6 and lead the East. I don't see why I would have to be critical of any Knick at this juncture. They all have played overwhelmingly well. Why would I be critical of the Knicks or its players when the Knicks have greatly exceeded expectations thus far?!?!

You don't find anything alarming? See things that you don't like? That may be an issue? That scare you?

Would you enjoy reading a daily column that was all peaches? 18-6 is delightful and unexpected - that does not make things perfect.

Felton did not come here to be a roll player, he came he to be our starting PG.

arkrud wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

NUPE wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nehemiah wrote:

NUPE wrote: Also, the thread you referred to simply tracked Lin's stats. I don't see how that is trashing Lin.

We already had this discussion, remember NUPE? You started tracking his stats when Lin's numbers weren't good. How come you never tracked Landry Fields' stats? He played more games as a Knick, and contributed more. You still can't man up because Lin might start producing and you don't want to look the fool.

It's all right. We've got Felton. According to you, he is just an awesome PG. Damn the numbers.

Can we find a post where Nupe is critical of a Knick (not an ex Knick)? Enough said!!

The Knciks are 18 - 6 and lead the East. I don't see why I would have to be critical of any Knick at this juncture. They all have played overwhelmingly well. Why would I be critical of the Knicks or its players when the Knicks have greatly exceeded expectations thus far?!?!

You don't find anything alarming? See things that you don't like? That may be an issue? That scare you?

Would you enjoy reading a daily column that was all peaches? 18-6 is delightful and unexpected - that does not make things perfect.

Felton did not come here to be a roll player, he came he to be our starting PG.

Some need to lover their expectations on Felton. He is who he is. Avarage NBA PG. He is not elite and will not be a factor to bring us to the promised land.
But he can be instrumental in team success if used properly and play inside his ability zone. This is on Woody to make sure for this to happen.
So far Feltop is played better that I expected. Good job from him.

He has played better than I expected but I had low expectations.

I don't people realize how bad he is shooting. He is having a worse shooting year than last year in Portland (which was awful) and sliding fast.

"he can be instrumental in team success if used properly and play inside his ability zone" - AGREED

I just worry that he will try to play outside of his ability zone - lets see how Woody deals with this.

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:felton almost never gets to the line and that's one problem among many. no savvy to his game at all-- that's another problem.

the knicks are very boring to watch with him trying to run things.

39TS% wow is that bad.

that said the defense was very bad.

It was an off shooting night - Kidd and Novak couldn't buy a bucket - that happens.

Felton's play is alarming and that has been a glaring issue

dk,

I usually find your analysis pretty in depth. Someone mentioned Baron Davis and had he had a high bball IQ.

whats your take on him?

i never liked his game either. he had conditioning issues and the point guard should be the one player in supreme shape on the court because he is the one who makes the most decisions and when you are winded good judgement and court vision get compromised. everyone who has played the game knows this.

i am just not a fan of so-called point guards who take that many shots and are so inefficient at it. (tweeners, hybrids, scoring PGs whatever.) he was not a good enough shooter. he basically falls into the same mold as the marburys and francises of the world, guys who came into the league overly-influenced by jordan and never learned to tighten up their games in the pros. the one saving grace were his APG but i can make an argument that those assists were usually accumulated at the expense of overall offensive cohesion, as is the case with marbury. think of how different the knicks are with kidd this year. and on a side note, the alley-oop play leaves me unimpressed, and it's telling that both davis and felton resort to that and people gush over it.

and then finally i am not a fan of point guards who are not great defenders-- it's the point of attack for god's sake-- unless their orchestrating and their ability to make others better (usually through raising their FG%) is so high that it results in their still being positive-sum players.

FoeDiddy wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

FoeDiddy wrote:I guess this is just human nature for some..we could be 23 and 1 and this board would over react to the one loss. I know my expectations coming into this season and they have more than surpassed that so far. For me that's good enough for me right now.

Who is complaining about one game? I have been complaining about Felton for a while.

This season (and last years ending (reg season)) has way surpassed my expectations.

I still worry about a glaring problem.

I worry that Felton and JR will kill us in the playoffs. That is a valid worry.

I know we will make the playoffs but what can we do once we get there? Do you want to live and die with Felton and JR? I don't.

Melo can't be the sole scorer while players like JR and Felton shoot 30 percent. We won't and can't win that way.

Those are very valid concerns. But can't be blind to the fact some of our injuries escalate those concerns. Amare injured most of season and melo out 3 games had put Felton in a position he wasn't brought here for. That at least has to be recognized. And to not recognize in Amare absence Felton's good perfomances is bias. He has done a commendable job most nights in providing offense and initiating offense. JR the same. Outside his 7 game slump he hasn't been bad.

JR Smith is a steal! Who can argue that? I would prefer that he not be allowed to shoot us out of games.

Felton has a TS of 47 percent (this includes games with Melo) that can't get much worse. ITS AWFUL. I think that we may be winning despite him and that JKidd has been saving our ass. Take away kidd and we probably are pretty mediocre.

What if Amare is not the player that we all hope he will be? What if he is injured Amare? Are we screwed?

Again, I am not worried at all about the regular season. We will make the playoffs and get a decent to high seed.

I just want to have a team that can/will be successful in the playoffs.

You take Felton away from Kidd and what u have is a guard who can't penetrate. It goes both ways. You have seen that at least when Kidd is on the court with no Felton right? Felton is just as important to team as Kidd. Felton and melo are the only two who actually take the drive all the way to Thr rim. The threat alone is important for those open 3s we've seen all season.

And u should worry about the regular season. Last year showed how important the regular season is towards playoff success.

goes both ways? not really. felton is a negative-sum player at the end of the day while kidd remains a positive-sum player. that he couldn't stay in front of a top-5 player is not an indictment.

felton doesn't take it to the rim as often as you imagine. it's tear-drop city with him. he has no ability from midrange and does not shoot off the dribble either. he really needs to tighten up his game or it is going to be rough in the playoffs.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Felton never had good shot selection but he becomes an offensive idiot when Melo is out.

Bonn,

Just for you:

Felton has a career WS/48 of .068

- Mike Woodson