CrushAlot wrote:http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=43471Mods please close this thread. There is already a thread addressing this.

IBTL

JamesLin wrote:I made this thread because I cannot go so low to post on the other thread and bump that topic to the top, which is basically a visual effect of joec going down on Jimmy Dolan and asking for more. So be it if this thread gets locked. I just want to state how sick it is for anyone to even trying to post in public without the slightest dignity or intelligence (yes, talking to you joec. I think you work for the man, don't deny it, you're making this way obvious, and wipe off that white stuff on the corner of your lips please). Jimmy Dolan does not deserve your praise, or anyone else. When I read your thread, I heard a slight gag reflex from your post. So ignorant and so wrong in so many ways. Stop that crap right now.

With all due respect JamesLin, but this could be used as an example of an agenda thread and/or post. The harping over an owner during losing ways followed by the ignoring of an owner's success during our winning ways. When reading, just seems like a hypocritical view point. If as Knick fans we can't give our own owner (some) credit during times in which we're seeing winning basketball, then how can any sports owner be given (any type of) credit for championship rings and/or winning ways? Sometimes you have to learn to lose before you know how to win. As an owner, sometimes it takes a while in regards to building a true championship contender. It took Dolan some time to piece together all of these winning pieces, but he's pieced them together (the present doesn't lie). Dolan used D'Antoni as a bridge to a coach such as Woodson.

We have our superstar in Melo (who Dolan wouldn't let slip away from (the now) Brooklyn Nets). Even went against our GM's call in order to assure Melo becomes New York's franchise player moving forward. The Center team of our currently 18-5 New York Knicks. Dolan traded for his guy. We have our head coach in which our players respond to (who Dolan hired in Mike Woodson). We also have a true contending team (what Dolan spent his money on).

We lost as a franchise under Dolan throught the 2000's and as a fan base? I believe we all gave Dolan the business. Myself included. But Dolan deserves some credit here, in this instance he does. He never quit and walked away from our franchise. Losing times have came and gone, but he fought his way through them. He kept a strong vision of landing us plenty of talent (and he's landed us that talent). We're currently featuring one of the deepest teams in franchise history. LeBron fell through the roof and we've recovered stronger than ever under Dolan.

Dolan tried everything, just to win. He even signed Mike D'Antoni as a head coach to build our franchise and/or team around. Say what you say about coach MDA, but Dolan made the right move with the hiring of D'Antoni. A flashy coach known for an exciting brand of Western Conference basketball. Dolan couldn't pass that offer up. Look at our roster pre D'Antoni when compared to post D'Antoni. Look at what Woodson has been given under both Dolan and D'Antoni. Amar'e Stoudemire, Felton has returned, Carmelo Anthony, Iman Shumpert, J.R Smith, Steve Novak and Tyson Chandler were aqquired under Mike D'Antoni ala Dolan's choice during our rebuilding years. Not championship, but rebuilding years. That's what Dolan envisioned... A roster full of talent. We've even landed the likes of Jason Kidd, Pablo Prigioni, Ronnie Brewer, Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby under coach Woodson.

As an owner? He allows his front office the opportunity to run a team. He keeps his nose out of it unless it's a move as big as Carmelo Anthony. He gave Stoudemire a crazy contract just so players such as Melo and Kidd would one day dream of playing here. It's easy to blame the owner and/or ignore the owner because it's the easy way out of not reading both sides of the story. He also deserves credit for allowing our front office to manage, our coache(s) to coach and for our players to play.

NYKMentality wrote:

JamesLin wrote:I made this thread because I cannot go so low to post on the other thread and bump that topic to the top, which is basically a visual effect of joec going down on Jimmy Dolan and asking for more. So be it if this thread gets locked. I just want to state how sick it is for anyone to even trying to post in public without the slightest dignity or intelligence (yes, talking to you joec. I think you work for the man, don't deny it, you're making this way obvious, and wipe off that white stuff on the corner of your lips please). Jimmy Dolan does not deserve your praise, or anyone else. When I read your thread, I heard a slight gag reflex from your post. So ignorant and so wrong in so many ways. Stop that crap right now.

With all due respect JamesLin, but this could be used as an example of an agenda thread and/or post. The harping over an owner during losing ways followed by the ignoring of an owner's success during our winning ways. When reading, just seems like a hypocritical view point. If as Knick fans we can't give our own owner (some) credit during times in which we're seeing winning basketball, then how can any sports owner be given (any type of) credit for championship rings and/or winning ways? Sometimes you have to learn to lose before you know how to win. As an owner, sometimes it takes a while in regards to building a true championship contender. It took Dolan some time to piece together all of these winning pieces, but he's pieced them together (the present doesn't lie). Dolan used D'Antoni as a bridge to a coach such as Woodson.

We have our superstar in Melo (who Dolan wouldn't let slip away from (the now) Brooklyn Nets). Even went against our GM's call in order to assure Melo becomes New York's franchise player moving forward. The Center team of our currently 18-5 New York Knicks. Dolan traded for his guy. We have our head coach in which our players respond to (who Dolan hired in Mike Woodson). We also have a true contending team (what Dolan spent his money on).

We lost as a franchise under Dolan throught the 2000's and as a fan base? I believe we all gave Dolan the business. Myself included. But Dolan deserves some credit here, in this instance he does. He never quit and walked away from our franchise. Losing times have came and gone, but he fought his way through them. He kept a strong vision of landing us plenty of talent (and he's landed us that talent). We're currently featuring one of the deepest teams in franchise history. LeBron fell through the roof and we've recovered stronger than ever under Dolan.

Dolan tried everything, just to win. He even signed Mike D'Antoni as a head coach to build our franchise and/or team around. Say what you say about coach MDA, but Dolan made the right move with the hiring of D'Antoni. A flashy coach known for an exciting brand of Western Conference basketball. Dolan couldn't pass that offer up. Look at our roster pre D'Antoni when compared to post D'Antoni. Look at what Woodson has been given under both Dolan and D'Antoni. Amar'e Stoudemire, Felton has returned, Carmelo Anthony, Iman Shumpert, J.R Smith, Steve Novak and Tyson Chandler were aqquired under Mike D'Antoni ala Dolan's choice during our rebuilding years. Not championship, but rebuilding years. That's what Dolan envisioned... A roster full of talent. We've even landed the likes of Jason Kidd, Pablo Prigioni, Ronnie Brewer, Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby under coach Woodson.

As an owner? He allows his front office the opportunity to run a team. He keeps his nose out of it unless it's a move as big as Carmelo Anthony. He gave Stoudemire a crazy contract just so players such as Melo and Kidd would one day dream of playing here. It's easy to blame the owner and/or ignore the owner because it's the easy way out of not reading both sides of the story. He also deserves credit for allowing our front office to manage, our coache(s) to coach and for our players to play.

I don't even want to read this because I already know where it's going.

James Dolan is one of the worst owners in sports and a huge moron. 23 games does not a erase a decade plus of awful basketball under his tenure. I will never forget what James Dolan put me through as a fan and let's not forget that as recently as September Dolan was having lunch with Isiah Thomas. I don't think I need to say why that angers me. At the end of the day, Dolan was basically forced into hiring Walsh and Walsh was the man who put everything in motion here. Walsh could have fired Grunwald yet he kept him around as his right-hand man. Walsh molded the team and made the major moves - Amare, Carmelo, Shumpert - that are a big part of this team today. Walsh left and Grunwald took over and has done a real nice job so far. Winning doesn't automatically make Dolan a good owner. He has to establish more than one winning season, maybe even cloe to 10 years of winning basketball, before I can ever forgive him for what this franchise went through. Does he have it in him? Probably not, which is why I would hold out on the praise for a little while longer if I were you.

JamesLin wrote:I made this thread because I cannot go so low to post on the other thread and bump that topic to the top, which is basically a visual effect of joec going down on Jimmy Dolan and asking for more. So be it if this thread gets locked. I just want to state how sick it is for anyone to even trying to post in public without the slightest dignity or intelligence (yes, talking to you joec. I think you work for the man, don't deny it, you're making this way obvious, and wipe off that white stuff on the corner of your lips please). Jimmy Dolan does not deserve your praise, or anyone else. When I read your thread, I heard a slight gag reflex from your post. So ignorant and so wrong in so many ways. Stop that crap right now.

Please post quotes from my original post showing what you are accusing me of in this, otherwise go take a remedial reading class.

NYKMentality wrote:

JamesLin wrote:I made this thread because I cannot go so low to post on the other thread and bump that topic to the top, which is basically a visual effect of joec going down on Jimmy Dolan and asking for more. So be it if this thread gets locked. I just want to state how sick it is for anyone to even trying to post in public without the slightest dignity or intelligence (yes, talking to you joec. I think you work for the man, don't deny it, you're making this way obvious, and wipe off that white stuff on the corner of your lips please). Jimmy Dolan does not deserve your praise, or anyone else. When I read your thread, I heard a slight gag reflex from your post. So ignorant and so wrong in so many ways. Stop that crap right now.

With all due respect JamesLin, but this could be used as an example of an agenda thread and/or post. The harping over an owner during losing ways followed by the ignoring of an owner's success during our winning ways. When reading, just seems like a hypocritical view point. If as Knick fans we can't give our own owner (some) credit during times in which we're seeing winning basketball, then how can any sports owner be given (any type of) credit for championship rings and/or winning ways? Sometimes you have to learn to lose before you know how to win. As an owner, sometimes it takes a while in regards to building a true championship contender. It took Dolan some time to piece together all of these winning pieces, but he's pieced them together (the present doesn't lie). Dolan used D'Antoni as a bridge to a coach such as Woodson.

We have our superstar in Melo (who Dolan wouldn't let slip away from (the now) Brooklyn Nets). Even went against our GM's call in order to assure Melo becomes New York's franchise player moving forward. The Center team of our currently 18-5 New York Knicks. Dolan traded for his guy. We have our head coach in which our players respond to (who Dolan hired in Mike Woodson). We also have a true contending team (what Dolan spent his money on).

We lost as a franchise under Dolan throught the 2000's and as a fan base? I believe we all gave Dolan the business. Myself included. But Dolan deserves some credit here, in this instance he does. He never quit and walked away from our franchise. Losing times have came and gone, but he fought his way through them. He kept a strong vision of landing us plenty of talent (and he's landed us that talent). We're currently featuring one of the deepest teams in franchise history. LeBron fell through the roof and we've recovered stronger than ever under Dolan.

Dolan tried everything, just to win. He even signed Mike D'Antoni as a head coach to build our franchise and/or team around. Say what you say about coach MDA, but Dolan made the right move with the hiring of D'Antoni. A flashy coach known for an exciting brand of Western Conference basketball. Dolan couldn't pass that offer up. Look at our roster pre D'Antoni when compared to post D'Antoni. Look at what Woodson has been given under both Dolan and D'Antoni. Amar'e Stoudemire, Felton has returned, Carmelo Anthony, Iman Shumpert, J.R Smith, Steve Novak and Tyson Chandler were aqquired under Mike D'Antoni ala Dolan's choice during our rebuilding years. Not championship, but rebuilding years. That's what Dolan envisioned... A roster full of talent. We've even landed the likes of Jason Kidd, Pablo Prigioni, Ronnie Brewer, Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby under coach Woodson.

As an owner? He allows his front office the opportunity to run a team. He keeps his nose out of it unless it's a move as big as Carmelo Anthony. He gave Stoudemire a crazy contract just so players such as Melo and Kidd would one day dream of playing here. It's easy to blame the owner and/or ignore the owner because it's the easy way out of not reading both sides of the story. He also deserves credit for allowing our front office to manage, our coache(s) to coach and for our players to play.

OMG, your narrative plays out like an obscure cable TV drama!

why your stuff gets passed over by some is your repeating yourself over and over highlighting how great all the moves are THIS YEAR and somehow all the lost years are wiped away as we already won something.

Lets be real, Donating the arena for a nite when NHL hockey is non existant and there is extra capacity is smart business move. Open up the arena to create an event where your employees can all get paid because the union demands they get paid anyway during a strike, and the venders have a nite to stay busy. It gets a big TV audience to see the MSG branding in a competitive market that includes the old meadowlands, Newark, Brooklyn and to a lessor extend Nassau Coliseum.

Is it evil? No, its a good thing, Is it praise worthy? Lets just say there is nothing bad and it does raise money.

Was it Dolans Idea? Was Sheed Dolans Idea? Kidd? Brewer? I don't think praising Dolan for this years roster like he was the Exec constructing is anywhere close to the truth. Did DOlan get Lin? Did he play him? Did Dolan scout Mozgov? Was he responsible for all of Isiah idiocy?

And lets rewind two years ago, Melo had yet to be a team player and his coach (karl) has a long history of banging his head on the floor in frustration knowing Melo has the potential to be an "Superstar" (as defined as making others around him better) but had yet to exhibit this. Dolan wanted a star and understands the power of star power. How do I know? Look at "im coming home" and the shirt sales upon his arrival. We all know Melo can play but we all understood the power of the trade in reality (Realty is not common amung some fans) for the deal to pan out Melo had to elevate into a player he had yet to be.

SO Dolan should get credit for Melo getting in shape, buying into another coach's scheme, and trusting teammates.

Lets credit Woodson, the GM and Maybe Melos life coach for holding him to a higher standard. How about just credit MElo for his elevation and maturity?

Dolan? Im not raging on him but the teams success is not on his shoulders.

Lets see how the rest of the season pans out and how far we go.

My gut says the little ass hole did all this out of BKN fear and perhaps we are a bit lucky that its all coming together so nice.

Does that make it any less enjoyable? not really, but im not into unicorns and heroic stories about Dolan and how his leadership knew that Priggy would fit in so well and it was Ronnie instead of The Corey Brewer experience that would be so good!

And if you depict Melo's dream of playing home again one more time like some Ninja warrior living in solitude for 20 years seeking his revenge and redemption Im going to vomit on my keyboard!

These comic book narrative really does discredit even your romantic notions!

But that's okay. Dolan doesn't need the OP's or anyone's "Sympathy" and is not looking for it. He does deserve some credit though. You slammed him for the very decisions that have brought this team greatness (Signing Carmelo, letting Jeremy Lin walk). If he was responsible for those decisions when you thought they were bad decisions, he's still responsible now that it turns out they were good decisions.

You don't have to have sympathy or even like Jimmy, but you have to give him credit for building a good management team and being a big part of this season's success. He has grown tremendously as a human being these past few years and that's good news for fans.