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Game thread: THE GIANT REMATCH, THE GAME OF THE SEASON IT'S ALL HERE KNICKS NETS, KNICKS PUT THE STAMP ON THE EASTERN CONFERENCE
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mrKnickShot
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12/12/2012  1:11 PM
dk7th wrote:
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:nice comeback for the win, but this is not what a second round or conference finals type of game is going to look like. nets could have used lopez in there as a lane clogger. melo has great form on his shot now that he is healthy. he is noticeably quicker this season so it's great that he is finally in reasonable shape and taking it to good defenders like wallace. last year we would not have seen this. melo's most effective isolation shot is that right low post to baseline spin ending in a fadeaway. funny how that is a more difficult shot than if he were to do it from the left side. he did that on wallace last night and gallinari the previous game. it is unguardable so he should definitely be given the green light to use it when it is called for. you have to wonder about the defense because of how the nets kept it close in spite of the 45 points. the way melo was scoring the ball you'd have expected a dismantling and not a one-possession clutch 3-pointer. a big key to the win was a very high rate of return off of nets turnovers. they only made 11 turnvers but the knicks turned them into 17 big points. our ball movement was also very good at times.

as jvg pointed out, the knicks are a better team with melo at the 4. stoudemire must now come off the bench but as i said at the time of the trade and ever since, the two players are redundant. smart and shrewd posters like tkf have wondered about the fallout of paying a guy 20 mill to come off the bench but all this winning makes the pr nightmare go away.

LoL, the Knicks are around 8 - 1 (reg season) with Stat and Melo on court under Woodson. Their sole playoff win in the last decade came with Stat and Melo and Woodson. Stat and Melo will be perfectly fine so long as the coach puts them in a position to succeed. I am so tired of this they are redundant BS. Melo can barely finish around the rim, rebounds less and blocks less than Amar'e. Melo excels mid-range and Amar'e excels at the hoop. It is not redundant. It is on the coach to get the most out of them both. If Melo can excel with Tyson and Kurt / Sheed on the floor I don't see why he can't do the same with Amar'e on the Court.

they are a better team with melo at the 4 spot. your memory of stoudemire's game is a bit fuzzy so i will clear things up for you. he excels at finishing at the hoop off the pick and roll. this poses redundancy with chandler. meantime when stoudemire wants to work from the elbow for his later-developed jumper that causes redundancy for carmelo.

amare is odd-man out through no fault of his own but since he wants to contribute to a title run he should be more than willing to take an "i'll do whatever is best for the team" approach. it's a win-win for him if he comes off the bench: he does not disrupt the chemistry of the starting unit and he gets to wreak havoc in pick and roll and elbow with the second unit.

the guy you want back in the starting lineup is shumpert, who would replace brewer-- or even felton. people forget shumpert is listed at 6'5".

Well said.

AUTOADVERT
NUPE
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12/12/2012  1:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2012  1:32 PM
dk7th wrote:
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:nice comeback for the win, but this is not what a second round or conference finals type of game is going to look like. nets could have used lopez in there as a lane clogger. melo has great form on his shot now that he is healthy. he is noticeably quicker this season so it's great that he is finally in reasonable shape and taking it to good defenders like wallace. last year we would not have seen this. melo's most effective isolation shot is that right low post to baseline spin ending in a fadeaway. funny how that is a more difficult shot than if he were to do it from the left side. he did that on wallace last night and gallinari the previous game. it is unguardable so he should definitely be given the green light to use it when it is called for. you have to wonder about the defense because of how the nets kept it close in spite of the 45 points. the way melo was scoring the ball you'd have expected a dismantling and not a one-possession clutch 3-pointer. a big key to the win was a very high rate of return off of nets turnovers. they only made 11 turnvers but the knicks turned them into 17 big points. our ball movement was also very good at times.

as jvg pointed out, the knicks are a better team with melo at the 4. stoudemire must now come off the bench but as i said at the time of the trade and ever since, the two players are redundant. smart and shrewd posters like tkf have wondered about the fallout of paying a guy 20 mill to come off the bench but all this winning makes the pr nightmare go away.

LoL, the Knicks are around 8 - 1 (reg season) with Stat and Melo on court under Woodson. Their sole playoff win in the last decade came with Stat and Melo and Woodson. Stat and Melo will be perfectly fine so long as the coach puts them in a position to succeed. I am so tired of this they are redundant BS. Melo can barely finish around the rim, rebounds less and blocks less than Amar'e. Melo excels mid-range and Amar'e excels at the hoop. It is not redundant. It is on the coach to get the most out of them both. If Melo can excel with Tyson and Kurt / Sheed on the floor I don't see why he can't do the same with Amar'e on the Court.

they are a better team with melo at the 4 spot. your memory of stoudemire's game is a bit fuzzy so i will clear things up for you. he excels at finishing at the hoop off the pick and roll. this poses redundancy with chandler. meantime when stoudemire wants to work from the elbow for his later-developed jumper that causes redundancy for carmelo.

amare is odd-man out through no fault of his own but since he wants to contribute to a title run he should be more than willing to take an "i'll do whatever is best for the team" approach. it's a win-win for him if he comes off the bench: he does not disrupt the chemistry of the starting unit and he gets to wreak havoc in pick and roll and elbow with the second unit.

the guy you want back in the starting lineup is shumpert, who would replace brewer-- or even felton. people forget shumpert is listed at 6'5".


How is Amar'e redundant with Chanlder? Amar'e can actually shoot from the top of the key down, consistently, unlike Chandler. That opens up pick and pop which Chandler does not presently do. Amar'e can operate face up in the mid or low post and score consistently unlike Chandler. Amar'e averages roughly 21 ppg and 8 boards and 1.5 blocks as a Knick. Chandler is nowhere near that in regards to scoring. Amar'e can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hole unlike Chandler. Saying Amar'e and Chandler are redundant is erroneous.

I could care less if Amar'e starts or comes off the bench. He will contribute A LOT either way and make the team better. As for him being the odd man out, I disagree. There is no need for anyone to be the odd man out. We don't need to choose between Amar'e and Melo. They can both excel whether they play together, alternate their time on the court or whatever. I have no clue where this feeling that there MUST be an odd man out comes from. Amar'e and Melo played together successfully under Mike Woodson. They were around 8 - 1! That is reality. That is what I base my position on, facts NOT fiction. The addition of competent pg's should make the combination of Amar'e and Melo substantially more potent.

The same coach that was losing with Amar'e and Melo is now presently losing with Kobe, Pau and Dwight! This same coach lost to Cle last night with an active Kobe and Dwight. I wholly ignore any and all things that happened in regards to Melo / Amar'e under Dantoni. It's a totally different team with a totally different mind set and real pg's.

There is no need to belabor this. We will see in the coming weeks.

tkf
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12/12/2012  1:50 PM
dk7th wrote:
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:nice comeback for the win, but this is not what a second round or conference finals type of game is going to look like. nets could have used lopez in there as a lane clogger. melo has great form on his shot now that he is healthy. he is noticeably quicker this season so it's great that he is finally in reasonable shape and taking it to good defenders like wallace. last year we would not have seen this. melo's most effective isolation shot is that right low post to baseline spin ending in a fadeaway. funny how that is a more difficult shot than if he were to do it from the left side. he did that on wallace last night and gallinari the previous game. it is unguardable so he should definitely be given the green light to use it when it is called for. you have to wonder about the defense because of how the nets kept it close in spite of the 45 points. the way melo was scoring the ball you'd have expected a dismantling and not a one-possession clutch 3-pointer. a big key to the win was a very high rate of return off of nets turnovers. they only made 11 turnvers but the knicks turned them into 17 big points. our ball movement was also very good at times.

as jvg pointed out, the knicks are a better team with melo at the 4. stoudemire must now come off the bench but as i said at the time of the trade and ever since, the two players are redundant. smart and shrewd posters like tkf have wondered about the fallout of paying a guy 20 mill to come off the bench but all this winning makes the pr nightmare go away.

LoL, the Knicks are around 8 - 1 (reg season) with Stat and Melo on court under Woodson. Their sole playoff win in the last decade came with Stat and Melo and Woodson. Stat and Melo will be perfectly fine so long as the coach puts them in a position to succeed. I am so tired of this they are redundant BS. Melo can barely finish around the rim, rebounds less and blocks less than Amar'e. Melo excels mid-range and Amar'e excels at the hoop. It is not redundant. It is on the coach to get the most out of them both. If Melo can excel with Tyson and Kurt / Sheed on the floor I don't see why he can't do the same with Amar'e on the Court.

they are a better team with melo at the 4 spot. your memory of stoudemire's game is a bit fuzzy so i will clear things up for you. he excels at finishing at the hoop off the pick and roll. this poses redundancy with chandler. meantime when stoudemire wants to work from the elbow for his later-developed jumper that causes redundancy for carmelo.

amare is odd-man out through no fault of his own but since he wants to contribute to a title run he should be more than willing to take an "i'll do whatever is best for the team" approach. it's a win-win for him if he comes off the bench: he does not disrupt the chemistry of the starting unit and he gets to wreak havoc in pick and roll and elbow with the second unit.

the guy you want back in the starting lineup is shumpert, who would replace brewer-- or even felton. people forget shumpert is listed at 6'5".

shump replacing felton in the backcourt is ideal... I do worry about starting kidd at PG.. will his body hold up? he is just too important to this team to wear him down and leave our playoff hopes in feltons hands...

As far as amare goes, I am not sure how this will play off the bench.. This is a long season and if the knicks struggle a bit, the grumblings to bring him into the starting lineup will occur, and why not? some will ask, why should our 20 mil man be coming off the bench.. I thought the key to having amare and melo were to compliment one another, and since that seems to be a problem, we now have to bury amare on the bench.. well bury may be too harsh of a word, but you get the point.. you bring out a great point, amare is just not a mesh with both chandler and carmelo... my question is this? can we compete for a title with amare off the bench, which means he won't be in games late when we might need his inside scoring, if he is clashing with chandler and carmelo..

another question, how long can we get away with carmelo at the 4? yes he may create a mismatch there on offense,but on the boards and on defense that is still a problem, and how can you beat these elite physical teams when you are getting out rebounded, and pushed around at the PF spot? this is a concern of mine.... so far we can win games this way, but our goal now is bigger than winning regular season games... we are all in for the win.... I would like to see this addressed sooner than later..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
gunsnewing
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12/12/2012  1:52 PM
Kidd will not start at pg over Felton. You have to keep him fresh. Playoffs might be a different story. We could see more Kidd than Felton
tkf
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12/12/2012  1:55 PM
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:nice comeback for the win, but this is not what a second round or conference finals type of game is going to look like. nets could have used lopez in there as a lane clogger. melo has great form on his shot now that he is healthy. he is noticeably quicker this season so it's great that he is finally in reasonable shape and taking it to good defenders like wallace. last year we would not have seen this. melo's most effective isolation shot is that right low post to baseline spin ending in a fadeaway. funny how that is a more difficult shot than if he were to do it from the left side. he did that on wallace last night and gallinari the previous game. it is unguardable so he should definitely be given the green light to use it when it is called for. you have to wonder about the defense because of how the nets kept it close in spite of the 45 points. the way melo was scoring the ball you'd have expected a dismantling and not a one-possession clutch 3-pointer. a big key to the win was a very high rate of return off of nets turnovers. they only made 11 turnvers but the knicks turned them into 17 big points. our ball movement was also very good at times.

as jvg pointed out, the knicks are a better team with melo at the 4. stoudemire must now come off the bench but as i said at the time of the trade and ever since, the two players are redundant. smart and shrewd posters like tkf have wondered about the fallout of paying a guy 20 mill to come off the bench but all this winning makes the pr nightmare go away.

LoL, the Knicks are around 8 - 1 (reg season) with Stat and Melo on court under Woodson. Their sole playoff win in the last decade came with Stat and Melo and Woodson. Stat and Melo will be perfectly fine so long as the coach puts them in a position to succeed. I am so tired of this they are redundant BS. Melo can barely finish around the rim, rebounds less and blocks less than Amar'e. Melo excels mid-range and Amar'e excels at the hoop. It is not redundant. It is on the coach to get the most out of them both. If Melo can excel with Tyson and Kurt / Sheed on the floor I don't see why he can't do the same with Amar'e on the Court.

they are a better team with melo at the 4 spot. your memory of stoudemire's game is a bit fuzzy so i will clear things up for you. he excels at finishing at the hoop off the pick and roll. this poses redundancy with chandler. meantime when stoudemire wants to work from the elbow for his later-developed jumper that causes redundancy for carmelo.

amare is odd-man out through no fault of his own but since he wants to contribute to a title run he should be more than willing to take an "i'll do whatever is best for the team" approach. it's a win-win for him if he comes off the bench: he does not disrupt the chemistry of the starting unit and he gets to wreak havoc in pick and roll and elbow with the second unit.

the guy you want back in the starting lineup is shumpert, who would replace brewer-- or even felton. people forget shumpert is listed at 6'5".


How is Amar'e redundant with Chanlder? Amar'e can actually shoot from the top of the key down, consistently, unlike Chandler. That opens up pick and pop which Chandler does not presently do. Amar'e can operate face up in the mid or low post and score consistently unlike Chandler. Amar'e averages roughly 21 ppg and 8 boards and 1.5 blocks as a Knick. Chandler is nowhere near that in regards to scoring. Amar'e can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hole unlike Chandler. Saying Amar'e and Chandler are redundant is erroneous.

I could care less if Amar'e starts or comes off the bench. He will contribute A LOT either way and make the team better. As for him being the odd man out, I disagree. There is no need for anyone to be the odd man out. We don't need to choose between Amar'e and Melo. They can both excel whether they play together, alternate their time on the court or whatever. I have no clue where this feeling that there MUST be an odd man out comes from. Amar'e and Melo played together successfully under Mike Woodson. They were around 8 - 1! That is reality. That is what I base my position on, facts NOT fiction. The addition of competent pg's should make the combination of Amar'e and Melo substantially more potent.

The same coach that was losing with Amar'e and Melo is now presently losing with Kobe, Pau and Dwight! This same coach lost to Cle last night with an active Kobe and Dwight. I wholly ignore any and all things that happened in regards to Melo / Amar'e under Dantoni. It's a totally different team with a totally different mind set and real pg's.

There is no need to belabor this. We will see in the coming weeks.

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
FoeDiddy
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12/12/2012  2:11 PM
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:nice comeback for the win, but this is not what a second round or conference finals type of game is going to look like. nets could have used lopez in there as a lane clogger. melo has great form on his shot now that he is healthy. he is noticeably quicker this season so it's great that he is finally in reasonable shape and taking it to good defenders like wallace. last year we would not have seen this. melo's most effective isolation shot is that right low post to baseline spin ending in a fadeaway. funny how that is a more difficult shot than if he were to do it from the left side. he did that on wallace last night and gallinari the previous game. it is unguardable so he should definitely be given the green light to use it when it is called for. you have to wonder about the defense because of how the nets kept it close in spite of the 45 points. the way melo was scoring the ball you'd have expected a dismantling and not a one-possession clutch 3-pointer. a big key to the win was a very high rate of return off of nets turnovers. they only made 11 turnvers but the knicks turned them into 17 big points. our ball movement was also very good at times.

as jvg pointed out, the knicks are a better team with melo at the 4. stoudemire must now come off the bench but as i said at the time of the trade and ever since, the two players are redundant. smart and shrewd posters like tkf have wondered about the fallout of paying a guy 20 mill to come off the bench but all this winning makes the pr nightmare go away.

LoL, the Knicks are around 8 - 1 (reg season) with Stat and Melo on court under Woodson. Their sole playoff win in the last decade came with Stat and Melo and Woodson. Stat and Melo will be perfectly fine so long as the coach puts them in a position to succeed. I am so tired of this they are redundant BS. Melo can barely finish around the rim, rebounds less and blocks less than Amar'e. Melo excels mid-range and Amar'e excels at the hoop. It is not redundant. It is on the coach to get the most out of them both. If Melo can excel with Tyson and Kurt / Sheed on the floor I don't see why he can't do the same with Amar'e on the Court.

they are a better team with melo at the 4 spot. your memory of stoudemire's game is a bit fuzzy so i will clear things up for you. he excels at finishing at the hoop off the pick and roll. this poses redundancy with chandler. meantime when stoudemire wants to work from the elbow for his later-developed jumper that causes redundancy for carmelo.

amare is odd-man out through no fault of his own but since he wants to contribute to a title run he should be more than willing to take an "i'll do whatever is best for the team" approach. it's a win-win for him if he comes off the bench: he does not disrupt the chemistry of the starting unit and he gets to wreak havoc in pick and roll and elbow with the second unit.

the guy you want back in the starting lineup is shumpert, who would replace brewer-- or even felton. people forget shumpert is listed at 6'5".


How is Amar'e redundant with Chanlder? Amar'e can actually shoot from the top of the key down, consistently, unlike Chandler. That opens up pick and pop which Chandler does not presently do. Amar'e can operate face up in the mid or low post and score consistently unlike Chandler. Amar'e averages roughly 21 ppg and 8 boards and 1.5 blocks as a Knick. Chandler is nowhere near that in regards to scoring. Amar'e can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hole unlike Chandler. Saying Amar'e and Chandler are redundant is erroneous.

I could care less if Amar'e starts or comes off the bench. He will contribute A LOT either way and make the team better. As for him being the odd man out, I disagree. There is no need for anyone to be the odd man out. We don't need to choose between Amar'e and Melo. They can both excel whether they play together, alternate their time on the court or whatever. I have no clue where this feeling that there MUST be an odd man out comes from. Amar'e and Melo played together successfully under Mike Woodson. They were around 8 - 1! That is reality. That is what I base my position on, facts NOT fiction. The addition of competent pg's should make the combination of Amar'e and Melo substantially more potent.

The same coach that was losing with Amar'e and Melo is now presently losing with Kobe, Pau and Dwight! This same coach lost to Cle last night with an active Kobe and Dwight. I wholly ignore any and all things that happened in regards to Melo / Amar'e under Dantoni. It's a totally different team with a totally different mind set and real pg's.

There is no need to belabor this. We will see in the coming weeks.

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

Steve kerr points out that stat but leaves out most of those stats were compiled under a different less effective coach. 8 and 1 might be a small sample size under Woodson but I think it's fair to say we don't know how both will play with each other under Woodson. This is a different time. I don't see Amare hurting us at all. If you recall a bulk of the time Melo and Amare play'd together Melo & Amare were injured and missing easy shots he is hitting now. Just saying Amare and Melo don't play well together is not telling the full story.

On a Side Note: It's good to see the board taking shape into more discussion vs. attacking. This what a winning team's board feels like? TKF & dk7th are definitely not trolls like some suggest. They just are more skeptical then most and have a right to be after these years of futility. Seems they are coming around though and seeing some greatness in this team.

gunsnewing
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12/12/2012  2:13 PM
exactly compiled under Dantoni and Toney Douglas
NUPE
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12/12/2012  2:35 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2012  2:39 PM
tkf wrote:

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

The thing is, there is no reason for them to get in each other's way. Spacing can be preserved. Amar'e can get and hit the jumpers that Kurt and Rasheed have been shooting (hopefully no three attempts though). If and when Melo goes to the bench then Amar'e can work more in the paint. The PnR between Felton / Kidd and Amar'e is a given. I don't see how that would be a problem (PnR) solely because Melo is on the floor.

This concern that Amar'e and Melo MUST be in opposition to each other and MUST be in each other's way is born from poor pg play in the past and poor coaching in the past. Under Woodson, they did not seem to be in each other's way. If for some reason they are in each other's way then obviously the coach and players will need to fix that. Woodson is not stubborn. He will make changes if they are needed. He won't repeatedly try the same failed strategy endlessly.

Amar'e can solidify the offense when Melo is on the bench. Amar'e has played on teams with multiple players putting up points in the past. Amar'e is not selfish. I am not expecting 25 ppg from Amar'e. I am expecting maybe 17 to 19 ppg on maybe 10 to 12 attempts a game. That is well within his ability based on his career stats and play as a Knick with lesser PG's last season (not a jab at Lin more so Douglas / Bibby / Shumpert / Melo @ Point-Forward / Baron). Amar'e is simply taking a few shots from Felton, JR, Rasheed and maybe Chandler. Melo should be able to get a few easier buckets if Amar'e is playing well or perhaps a few more assists off his drives to the hoop.

Maybe I am seeing things through Knick colored glasses. I just don't see an issue to be honest. Time will tell. You have people saying Amar'e is redundant with Chandler which to me is unfounded. Amar'e is still one of the best offensive players in the NBA and has been throughout his career. If he is healthy then he is an asset.

NUPE
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12/12/2012  2:37 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Kidd will not start at pg over Felton. You have to keep him fresh. Playoffs might be a different story. We could see more Kidd than Felton


Felton will have some bad games. However, he has been good overall.

mrKnickShot
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12/12/2012  2:44 PM
NUPE wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Kidd will not start at pg over Felton. You have to keep him fresh. Playoffs might be a different story. We could see more Kidd than Felton


Felton will have some bad games. However, he has been good overall.

been horrible lately. Not a good sign.

career wise, his TS is horrible too.

FoeDiddy
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12/12/2012  3:03 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
NUPE wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:Kidd will not start at pg over Felton. You have to keep him fresh. Playoffs might be a different story. We could see more Kidd than Felton


Felton will have some bad games. However, he has been good overall.

been horrible lately. Not a good sign.

career wise, his TS is horrible too.

He will be fine..especially when Amare gets back..Less shots for him.

tkf
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12/12/2012  3:06 PM
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

The thing is, there is no reason for them to get in each other's way. Spacing can be preserved. Amar'e can get and hit the jumpers that Kurt and Rasheed have been shooting (hopefully no three attempts though). If and when Melo goes to the bench then Amar'e can work more in the paint. The PnR between Felton / Kidd and Amar'e is a given. I don't see how that would be a problem (PnR) solely because Melo is on the floor.

This concern that Amar'e and Melo MUST be in opposition to each other and MUST be in each other's way is born from poor pg play in the past and poor coaching in the past. Under Woodson, they did not seem to be in each other's way. If for some reason they are in each other's way then obviously the coach and players will need to fix that. Woodson is not stubborn. He will make changes if they are needed. He won't repeatedly try the same failed strategy endlessly.

Amar'e can solidify the offense when Melo is on the bench. Amar'e has played on teams with multiple players putting up points in the past. Amar'e is not selfish. I am not expecting 25 ppg from Amar'e. I am expecting maybe 17 to 19 ppg on maybe 10 to 12 attempts a game. That is well within his ability based on his career stats and play as a Knick with lesser PG's last season (not a jab at Lin more so Douglas / Bibby / Shumpert / Melo @ Point-Forward / Baron). Amar'e is simply taking a few shots from Felton, JR, Rasheed and maybe Chandler. Melo should be able to get a few easier buckets if Amar'e is playing well or perhaps a few more assists off his drives to the hoop.

Maybe I am seeing things through Knick colored glasses. I just don't see an issue to be honest. Time will tell. You have people saying Amar'e is redundant with Chandler which to me is unfounded. Amar'e is still one of the best offensive players in the NBA and has been throughout his career. If he is healthy then he is an asset.


Amare is not selfish at all, but sometimes games don't mesh... I think even the coach sees a problem mixing him, carmelo and chandler, or else there would be no need to even talk about amare off the bench..I think DK highlighted in detail the problems he sees with amare meshing with the two.. go back and read it again, very insightful..

There is certainly going to be an adjustment with amare, it is going to be interesting to see how it plays out... I mean no need to take offense with some of us seeing a potential problem.. we are not hoping for a problem but there is a concern..

you can look at it this way.. Every team should be so lucky to have the "problem" of working an Allstar player back into the lineup of a 16-5 team....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
NUPE
Posts: 21221
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Joined: 4/29/2012
Member: #4205

12/12/2012  3:26 PM
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

The thing is, there is no reason for them to get in each other's way. Spacing can be preserved. Amar'e can get and hit the jumpers that Kurt and Rasheed have been shooting (hopefully no three attempts though). If and when Melo goes to the bench then Amar'e can work more in the paint. The PnR between Felton / Kidd and Amar'e is a given. I don't see how that would be a problem (PnR) solely because Melo is on the floor.

This concern that Amar'e and Melo MUST be in opposition to each other and MUST be in each other's way is born from poor pg play in the past and poor coaching in the past. Under Woodson, they did not seem to be in each other's way. If for some reason they are in each other's way then obviously the coach and players will need to fix that. Woodson is not stubborn. He will make changes if they are needed. He won't repeatedly try the same failed strategy endlessly.

Amar'e can solidify the offense when Melo is on the bench. Amar'e has played on teams with multiple players putting up points in the past. Amar'e is not selfish. I am not expecting 25 ppg from Amar'e. I am expecting maybe 17 to 19 ppg on maybe 10 to 12 attempts a game. That is well within his ability based on his career stats and play as a Knick with lesser PG's last season (not a jab at Lin more so Douglas / Bibby / Shumpert / Melo @ Point-Forward / Baron). Amar'e is simply taking a few shots from Felton, JR, Rasheed and maybe Chandler. Melo should be able to get a few easier buckets if Amar'e is playing well or perhaps a few more assists off his drives to the hoop.

Maybe I am seeing things through Knick colored glasses. I just don't see an issue to be honest. Time will tell. You have people saying Amar'e is redundant with Chandler which to me is unfounded. Amar'e is still one of the best offensive players in the NBA and has been throughout his career. If he is healthy then he is an asset.


Amare is not selfish at all, but sometimes games don't mesh... I think even the coach sees a problem mixing him, carmelo and chandler, or else there would be no need to even talk about amare off the bench..I think DK highlighted in detail the problems he sees with amare meshing with the two.. go back and read it again, very insightful..

There is certainly going to be an adjustment with amare, it is going to be interesting to see how it plays out... I mean no need to take offense with some of us seeing a potential problem.. we are not hoping for a problem but there is a concern..

you can look at it this way.. Every team should be so lucky to have the "problem" of working an Allstar player back into the lineup of a 16-5 team....

I have not taken offense. I am just giving my opinion. We will see how things pan out.

The Knicks will need both Amar'e and Melo playing at a high level to do well long-term. Melo is shooting the three well beyond his career average and so is Kidd. Odds are these things won't last forever even if they are still getting open looks. The Knicks will need another scorer that can consistently shoot in the range of 48% or higher nightly and score 17 to 20 ppg while grabbing boards and playing defense (I hope Amar'e plays D).

If Amar'e can't be implemented and we have to rely on JR or Felton to be the secondary scorer then I don't like this teams chances long-term in the playoffs.

dk7th
Posts: 30006
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Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
12/12/2012  4:18 PM
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

The thing is, there is no reason for them to get in each other's way. Spacing can be preserved. Amar'e can get and hit the jumpers that Kurt and Rasheed have been shooting (hopefully no three attempts though). If and when Melo goes to the bench then Amar'e can work more in the paint. The PnR between Felton / Kidd and Amar'e is a given. I don't see how that would be a problem (PnR) solely because Melo is on the floor.

This concern that Amar'e and Melo MUST be in opposition to each other and MUST be in each other's way is born from poor pg play in the past and poor coaching in the past. Under Woodson, they did not seem to be in each other's way. If for some reason they are in each other's way then obviously the coach and players will need to fix that. Woodson is not stubborn. He will make changes if they are needed. He won't repeatedly try the same failed strategy endlessly.

Amar'e can solidify the offense when Melo is on the bench. Amar'e has played on teams with multiple players putting up points in the past. Amar'e is not selfish. I am not expecting 25 ppg from Amar'e. I am expecting maybe 17 to 19 ppg on maybe 10 to 12 attempts a game. That is well within his ability based on his career stats and play as a Knick with lesser PG's last season (not a jab at Lin more so Douglas / Bibby / Shumpert / Melo @ Point-Forward / Baron). Amar'e is simply taking a few shots from Felton, JR, Rasheed and maybe Chandler. Melo should be able to get a few easier buckets if Amar'e is playing well or perhaps a few more assists off his drives to the hoop.

Maybe I am seeing things through Knick colored glasses. I just don't see an issue to be honest. Time will tell. You have people saying Amar'e is redundant with Chandler which to me is unfounded. Amar'e is still one of the best offensive players in the NBA and has been throughout his career. If he is healthy then he is an asset.


Amare is not selfish at all, but sometimes games don't mesh... I think even the coach sees a problem mixing him, carmelo and chandler, or else there would be no need to even talk about amare off the bench..I think DK highlighted in detail the problems he sees with amare meshing with the two.. go back and read it again, very insightful..

There is certainly going to be an adjustment with amare, it is going to be interesting to see how it plays out... I mean no need to take offense with some of us seeing a potential problem.. we are not hoping for a problem but there is a concern..

you can look at it this way.. Every team should be so lucky to have the "problem" of working an Allstar player back into the lineup of a 16-5 team....

I have not taken offense. I am just giving my opinion. We will see how things pan out.

The Knicks will need both Amar'e and Melo playing at a high level to do well long-term. Melo is shooting the three well beyond his career average and so is Kidd. Odds are these things won't last forever even if they are still getting open looks. The Knicks will need another scorer that can consistently shoot in the range of 48% or higher nightly and score 17 to 20 ppg while grabbing boards and playing defense (I hope Amar'e plays D).

If Amar'e can't be implemented and we have to rely on JR or Felton to be the secondary scorer then I don't like this teams chances long-term in the playoffs.

it comes across as your taking offense when you mock another poster with a "LOL" or refer to their contributions as "yammering." it manifests as discourteous and uncivil.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
12/12/2012  4:26 PM
You know that last night was a big time win when you see #2 getting a couple of posts in.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
NUPE
Posts: 21221
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Joined: 4/29/2012
Member: #4205

12/12/2012  4:39 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/12/2012  4:47 PM
dk7th wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

The thing is, there is no reason for them to get in each other's way. Spacing can be preserved. Amar'e can get and hit the jumpers that Kurt and Rasheed have been shooting (hopefully no three attempts though). If and when Melo goes to the bench then Amar'e can work more in the paint. The PnR between Felton / Kidd and Amar'e is a given. I don't see how that would be a problem (PnR) solely because Melo is on the floor.

This concern that Amar'e and Melo MUST be in opposition to each other and MUST be in each other's way is born from poor pg play in the past and poor coaching in the past. Under Woodson, they did not seem to be in each other's way. If for some reason they are in each other's way then obviously the coach and players will need to fix that. Woodson is not stubborn. He will make changes if they are needed. He won't repeatedly try the same failed strategy endlessly.

Amar'e can solidify the offense when Melo is on the bench. Amar'e has played on teams with multiple players putting up points in the past. Amar'e is not selfish. I am not expecting 25 ppg from Amar'e. I am expecting maybe 17 to 19 ppg on maybe 10 to 12 attempts a game. That is well within his ability based on his career stats and play as a Knick with lesser PG's last season (not a jab at Lin more so Douglas / Bibby / Shumpert / Melo @ Point-Forward / Baron). Amar'e is simply taking a few shots from Felton, JR, Rasheed and maybe Chandler. Melo should be able to get a few easier buckets if Amar'e is playing well or perhaps a few more assists off his drives to the hoop.

Maybe I am seeing things through Knick colored glasses. I just don't see an issue to be honest. Time will tell. You have people saying Amar'e is redundant with Chandler which to me is unfounded. Amar'e is still one of the best offensive players in the NBA and has been throughout his career. If he is healthy then he is an asset.


Amare is not selfish at all, but sometimes games don't mesh... I think even the coach sees a problem mixing him, carmelo and chandler, or else there would be no need to even talk about amare off the bench..I think DK highlighted in detail the problems he sees with amare meshing with the two.. go back and read it again, very insightful..

There is certainly going to be an adjustment with amare, it is going to be interesting to see how it plays out... I mean no need to take offense with some of us seeing a potential problem.. we are not hoping for a problem but there is a concern..

you can look at it this way.. Every team should be so lucky to have the "problem" of working an Allstar player back into the lineup of a 16-5 team....

I have not taken offense. I am just giving my opinion. We will see how things pan out.

The Knicks will need both Amar'e and Melo playing at a high level to do well long-term. Melo is shooting the three well beyond his career average and so is Kidd. Odds are these things won't last forever even if they are still getting open looks. The Knicks will need another scorer that can consistently shoot in the range of 48% or higher nightly and score 17 to 20 ppg while grabbing boards and playing defense (I hope Amar'e plays D).

If Amar'e can't be implemented and we have to rely on JR or Felton to be the secondary scorer then I don't like this teams chances long-term in the playoffs.

it comes across as your taking offense when you mock another poster with a "LOL" or refer to their contributions as "yammering." it manifests as discourteous and uncivil.

If anyone is offended by "LoL" and the word "yammering" I'd suggest they get thicker skin. As for the word "yammering" I use it because it accurately describes the redundant "Melo is evil", the "Knicks screwed up by not resigning Lin", "this team is bad", "its only been 6 games", etc. posts that have populated this board in recent months and the off-season. I have not used profanity nor called anyone out of their name and have simply said we will see how things play out in my last two or so posts. Seeing as you have engaged in "uncivil" or "discourteous" posting in the recent past, I find your attempt at UK policing ironic.

dk7th
Posts: 30006
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/14/2012
Member: #4228
USA
12/12/2012  4:52 PM
NUPE wrote:
dk7th wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:
NUPE wrote:
tkf wrote:

Nupe here is a problem this presents... "Winning time".. magic johnson likes to use this phrase.. in the 4th qtr we are going to need rebouding, defense and scoring.. preferably less threes and more shots in the paint.. if we can't keep chandler on the floor with amare, then we hurt on the defensive end and on the boards.. remember it was chandlers tip out that led to kidd's game winning three..

if carmelo and amare are in each other's way then how will we benefit from having amare around during "winning time" when he and carmelo are clashing? and that still leaves carmelo at the 4 spot....

these are legit concerns man... Lets hope we can get them worked out...

steve kerr pointed out a stat the other night that when amare and melo are on the floor together.. the knicks just aren't that good.. you can't keep screaming 8-1 without presenting the whole picture here....

The thing is, there is no reason for them to get in each other's way. Spacing can be preserved. Amar'e can get and hit the jumpers that Kurt and Rasheed have been shooting (hopefully no three attempts though). If and when Melo goes to the bench then Amar'e can work more in the paint. The PnR between Felton / Kidd and Amar'e is a given. I don't see how that would be a problem (PnR) solely because Melo is on the floor.

This concern that Amar'e and Melo MUST be in opposition to each other and MUST be in each other's way is born from poor pg play in the past and poor coaching in the past. Under Woodson, they did not seem to be in each other's way. If for some reason they are in each other's way then obviously the coach and players will need to fix that. Woodson is not stubborn. He will make changes if they are needed. He won't repeatedly try the same failed strategy endlessly.

Amar'e can solidify the offense when Melo is on the bench. Amar'e has played on teams with multiple players putting up points in the past. Amar'e is not selfish. I am not expecting 25 ppg from Amar'e. I am expecting maybe 17 to 19 ppg on maybe 10 to 12 attempts a game. That is well within his ability based on his career stats and play as a Knick with lesser PG's last season (not a jab at Lin more so Douglas / Bibby / Shumpert / Melo @ Point-Forward / Baron). Amar'e is simply taking a few shots from Felton, JR, Rasheed and maybe Chandler. Melo should be able to get a few easier buckets if Amar'e is playing well or perhaps a few more assists off his drives to the hoop.

Maybe I am seeing things through Knick colored glasses. I just don't see an issue to be honest. Time will tell. You have people saying Amar'e is redundant with Chandler which to me is unfounded. Amar'e is still one of the best offensive players in the NBA and has been throughout his career. If he is healthy then he is an asset.


Amare is not selfish at all, but sometimes games don't mesh... I think even the coach sees a problem mixing him, carmelo and chandler, or else there would be no need to even talk about amare off the bench..I think DK highlighted in detail the problems he sees with amare meshing with the two.. go back and read it again, very insightful..

There is certainly going to be an adjustment with amare, it is going to be interesting to see how it plays out... I mean no need to take offense with some of us seeing a potential problem.. we are not hoping for a problem but there is a concern..

you can look at it this way.. Every team should be so lucky to have the "problem" of working an Allstar player back into the lineup of a 16-5 team....

I have not taken offense. I am just giving my opinion. We will see how things pan out.

The Knicks will need both Amar'e and Melo playing at a high level to do well long-term. Melo is shooting the three well beyond his career average and so is Kidd. Odds are these things won't last forever even if they are still getting open looks. The Knicks will need another scorer that can consistently shoot in the range of 48% or higher nightly and score 17 to 20 ppg while grabbing boards and playing defense (I hope Amar'e plays D).

If Amar'e can't be implemented and we have to rely on JR or Felton to be the secondary scorer then I don't like this teams chances long-term in the playoffs.

it comes across as your taking offense when you mock another poster with a "LOL" or refer to their contributions as "yammering." it manifests as discourteous and uncivil.

If anyone is offended by "LoL" and the word "yammering" I'd suggest they get thicker skin. As for the word "yammering" I use it because it accurately describes the redundant "Melo is evil", the "Knicks screwed up by not resigning Lin", "this team is bad", "its only been 6 games", etc. posts that have populated this board in recent months and the off-season. I have not used profanity nor called anyone out of their name and have simply said we will see how things play out in my last two or so posts. Seeing as you have engaged in "uncivil" or "discourteous" posting in the recent past, I find your attempt at UK policing ironic.

you'll have to cite chapter and verse of my bad behavior since i have become a member here. if you are referring to realgm that really has zero to do with my participation here, right?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
Swishfm3
Posts: 23227
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Joined: 3/28/2003
Member: #392
12/12/2012  5:20 PM
tkf wrote:shump replacing felton in the backcourt is ideal... I do worry about starting kidd at PG.. will his body hold up? he is just too important to this team to wear him down and leave our playoff hopes in feltons hands...

I like P.Prigini but I hope the Knicks draft a promising PG for Kidds sake.

ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851
Alba Posts: 11
Joined: 1/3/2012
Member: #3806
USA
12/12/2012  5:26 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:
tkf wrote:shump replacing felton in the backcourt is ideal... I do worry about starting kidd at PG.. will his body hold up? he is just too important to this team to wear him down and leave our playoff hopes in feltons hands...

I like P.Prigini but I hope the Knicks draft a promising PG for Kidds sake.

Knicks keep their draft pick this year right? It's been awhile since the Knicks drafted a point guard, it'd be the ideal situation.

Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
12/12/2012  5:39 PM
ChuckBuck wrote:
Swishfm3 wrote:
tkf wrote:shump replacing felton in the backcourt is ideal... I do worry about starting kidd at PG.. will his body hold up? he is just too important to this team to wear him down and leave our playoff hopes in feltons hands...

I like P.Prigini but I hope the Knicks draft a promising PG for Kidds sake.

Knicks keep their draft pick this year right? It's been awhile since the Knicks drafted a point guard, it'd be the ideal situation.


Yeah we do, and I hope that Cuse kid falls. I know I get caught up in looking at the colleges of the guys we have, but he looks like the next "insert great 6'4 plus passing point guard".

Heard he got arrested or something...........Hope it's true.

"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Game thread: THE GIANT REMATCH, THE GAME OF THE SEASON IT'S ALL HERE KNICKS NETS, KNICKS PUT THE STAMP ON THE EASTERN CONFERENCE

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