Game Thread: New York Knicks @. Dallas Mavericks. 8:30 PM (Wednesday).
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tkf
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11/22/2012  4:33 PM
dk7th wrote:
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:the law of averages and human nature dictate that players and coaches will regress unless correctives are put in place.

at least woodson owned his mistakes. carmelo sort of did as well. and kidd called out the team for not moving the ball, too.

as i have been saying, anthony needs to expand his game-- more fakes on drives in order to lead to up and unders, so that the refs have no choice but to call fouls. if you see carter coming what's with the circus shot? that's when you use a ball fake and draw the foul. alan hahn protested after the game that he just doesn't understand why melo does not get "those calls." come on, hahn!

Were there times when the offense got stagnant and the ball didn't move much? Yes. But thats not why we last the game. When you give up 114 pts on the road, your probably gonna lose 10 times out of 10. Defense or lack there of contributed to the loss. Not to mention, Dallas caught fire in the 3rd and most of the 4th. Mayo, Carter and even Crowder were hitting tough shots. Its okay to give the opposition some credit sometimes.

crowders threes were demoralizing. but yes if you want to be a good road team you have to play defense and to his credit woodson admitted the loss was on him for not using the bench depth to harass an undermanned (no dirk) mav squad. my philosophy is you must put more energy into defense... and the offense will sort itself out. don't know what woodson was thinking here. maybe he was seeing how well-conditioned his tighter rotation is with an eye to the playoffs. he got his answer. not really a bad loss when you look at it that way.


good points dk, but the offense just won't sort itself out, the knicks have to be committed to moving the ball even when times are tough, they seem to revert back to bad habits when pressed.. plus they just need more points in the paint..running pick and roll with chandler was creating havoc, hopefully they will go back to that more when amare gets back, and less of iso ball.... they have to commit to getting in the paint.. pound the paint, and you will get better shots for guys like novak without having to make 6 passes around the perimeter...

my thing about the offense, specifically jacking up shots, has to do with bad habits primarily but also conditioning issues. i hate it when smith and anthony either jack up shots like they are ready to spooge, but i also think that when they do so sometimes it is also from fatigue. look at how much energy smith exerts doing his playground crap and what is the result: he's too often out of gas to get his damned legs under him. melo has his routine too where he becomes infatuated with himself and the results are predictably horrible.

it's funny because moving the ball and running pick and roll actually takes LESS energy then the isolation playground stuff.

i'd love to see chandler get more touches in the pick and roll but lets face it felton is just not up to the task of running it-- alley oops are not pick and rolls-- so we see our point guard taking an average of 15 shots a game with an anemic 51TS%. that's not going to help the knicks come playoff time.

nice surprise is wallace-- love watching him low post guys. that should help novak a bunch and i hope woodson gets them going together because he can score from there. they double him novak is probably open.

this is why I would like to see a healthy amare back, he can run pick and roll with kidd and priggs... but the offense is going to have to be based around pick and roll.. the key is, will carmelo allow it, or will he get woodson a first class ticket back to Atlanta? As you said, a lot of good things can come from the pick and roll, and we would use less energy creating offense... but we have to commit to playing it, even if it means kidd and priggs get more of felton's minutes at pg...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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3G4G
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11/22/2012  5:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/22/2012  9:58 PM
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:the law of averages and human nature dictate that players and coaches will regress unless correctives are put in place.

at least woodson owned his mistakes. carmelo sort of did as well. and kidd called out the team for not moving the ball, too.

as i have been saying, anthony needs to expand his game-- more fakes on drives in order to lead to up and unders, so that the refs have no choice but to call fouls. if you see carter coming what's with the circus shot? that's when you use a ball fake and draw the foul. alan hahn protested after the game that he just doesn't understand why melo does not get "those calls." come on, hahn!

Were there times when the offense got stagnant and the ball didn't move much? Yes. But thats not why we last the game. When you give up 114 pts on the road, your probably gonna lose 10 times out of 10. Defense or lack there of contributed to the loss. Not to mention, Dallas caught fire in the 3rd and most of the 4th. Mayo, Carter and even Crowder were hitting tough shots. Its okay to give the opposition some credit sometimes.

crowders threes were demoralizing. but yes if you want to be a good road team you have to play defense and to his credit woodson admitted the loss was on him for not using the bench depth to harass an undermanned (no dirk) mav squad. my philosophy is you must put more energy into defense... and the offense will sort itself out. don't know what woodson was thinking here. maybe he was seeing how well-conditioned his tighter rotation is with an eye to the playoffs. he got his answer. not really a bad loss when you look at it that way.

I called out Woody a couple games ago for showing shrinkage with his bench. I used the term "Pecking Order" with Chrushalot discussing the lack of reason for Camby not playing and cutting back of Pablo's and Novak's minutes. If he keeps this up guys are going to be burnt out by games 25-30.

Our loss had a lot to do with O.J. Mayo who's playing like an MVP posting numbers of 22ppg 50%fg 56%fg(3pt) 87%fta BY A WIDE MARGIN CAREER NUMBERS

IrishKnickFan
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11/22/2012  9:51 PM
this loss still hurts. Although we were screwed by the refs twice. I just felt we let teh mavs hang around
3G4G
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11/22/2012  9:59 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:this loss still hurts. Although we were screwed by the refs twice. I just felt we let teh mavs hang around

Going ISO Melo ball hurt the team a lot along with constantly looking for the 3pt shot.

dk7th
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11/22/2012  10:13 PM
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:the law of averages and human nature dictate that players and coaches will regress unless correctives are put in place.

at least woodson owned his mistakes. carmelo sort of did as well. and kidd called out the team for not moving the ball, too.

as i have been saying, anthony needs to expand his game-- more fakes on drives in order to lead to up and unders, so that the refs have no choice but to call fouls. if you see carter coming what's with the circus shot? that's when you use a ball fake and draw the foul. alan hahn protested after the game that he just doesn't understand why melo does not get "those calls." come on, hahn!

Were there times when the offense got stagnant and the ball didn't move much? Yes. But thats not why we last the game. When you give up 114 pts on the road, your probably gonna lose 10 times out of 10. Defense or lack there of contributed to the loss. Not to mention, Dallas caught fire in the 3rd and most of the 4th. Mayo, Carter and even Crowder were hitting tough shots. Its okay to give the opposition some credit sometimes.

crowders threes were demoralizing. but yes if you want to be a good road team you have to play defense and to his credit woodson admitted the loss was on him for not using the bench depth to harass an undermanned (no dirk) mav squad. my philosophy is you must put more energy into defense... and the offense will sort itself out. don't know what woodson was thinking here. maybe he was seeing how well-conditioned his tighter rotation is with an eye to the playoffs. he got his answer. not really a bad loss when you look at it that way.

I called out Woody a couple games ago for showing shrinkage with his bench. I used the term "Pecking Order" with Chrushalot discussing the lack of reason for Camby not playing and cutting back of Pablo's and Novak's minutes. If he keeps this up guys are going to burnt out by games 25-30.

Our loss had a lot to do with O.J. Mayo who's playing like an MVP posting numbers of 22ppg 50%fg 56%fg(3pt) 87%fta BY A WIDE MARGIN CAREER NUMBERS

he may have thought he had been playing with house money here but if so my opinion is that his decision is both premature and counterintuitive: you're on night 2 of a b2b so isn't that when you use your depth and grind out a defensive struggle? and preserve a playoff rotation while getting another game ahead in the division?

i don't like a short bench unless they're really young and don't have a head for the game. that isn't the knicks problem so there's no excuse not to use these guys. thomas and camby and prigoni should be folded in for 10-12 minutes a game. camby and thomas are 12 fouls. collison and mayo get hard fouled maybe they think twice i don't know. holzman used 12 guys and although it was a different era the notion is sound if you have players who are fundamentally sound. and we have vets who are fundamentally sound and won't make momentum-changing errors.

Dolan: I willingly and gratefully cede all power to Phil. Jackson: I believe in system basketball; I will bring back fundamentals. Fisher: We'll play the game a better way. Melo: I forced my way here. dk7th: SHOULDERGATE NO-TRADE CLAUSE 124 MILLION
3G4G
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11/22/2012  10:33 PM
dk7th wrote:
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:the law of averages and human nature dictate that players and coaches will regress unless correctives are put in place.

at least woodson owned his mistakes. carmelo sort of did as well. and kidd called out the team for not moving the ball, too.

as i have been saying, anthony needs to expand his game-- more fakes on drives in order to lead to up and unders, so that the refs have no choice but to call fouls. if you see carter coming what's with the circus shot? that's when you use a ball fake and draw the foul. alan hahn protested after the game that he just doesn't understand why melo does not get "those calls." come on, hahn!

Were there times when the offense got stagnant and the ball didn't move much? Yes. But thats not why we last the game. When you give up 114 pts on the road, your probably gonna lose 10 times out of 10. Defense or lack there of contributed to the loss. Not to mention, Dallas caught fire in the 3rd and most of the 4th. Mayo, Carter and even Crowder were hitting tough shots. Its okay to give the opposition some credit sometimes.

crowders threes were demoralizing. but yes if you want to be a good road team you have to play defense and to his credit woodson admitted the loss was on him for not using the bench depth to harass an undermanned (no dirk) mav squad. my philosophy is you must put more energy into defense... and the offense will sort itself out. don't know what woodson was thinking here. maybe he was seeing how well-conditioned his tighter rotation is with an eye to the playoffs. he got his answer. not really a bad loss when you look at it that way.

I called out Woody a couple games ago for showing shrinkage with his bench. I used the term "Pecking Order" with Chrushalot discussing the lack of reason for Camby not playing and cutting back of Pablo's and Novak's minutes. If he keeps this up guys are going to burnt out by games 25-30.

Our loss had a lot to do with O.J. Mayo who's playing like an MVP posting numbers of 22ppg 50%fg 56%fg(3pt) 87%fta BY A WIDE MARGIN CAREER NUMBERS

he may have thought he had been playing with house money here but if so my opinion is that his decision is both premature and counterintuitive: you're on night 2 of a b2b so isn't that when you use your depth and grind out a defensive struggle? and preserve a playoff rotation while getting another game ahead in the division?

i don't like a short bench unless they're really young and don't have a head for the game. that isn't the knicks problem so there's no excuse not to use these guys. thomas and camby and prigoni should be folded in for 10-12 minutes a game. camby and thomas are 12 fouls. collison and mayo get hard fouled maybe they think twice i don't know. holzman used 12 guys and although it was a different era the notion is sound if you have players who are fundamentally sound. and we have vets who are fundamentally sound and won't make momentum-changing errors.

Woody is letting the winning get to his head. Although you play to win the game you can never forget it's a marathon we're in. Woody is trying to win every game almost at all cost. You can't do this at game 10. Part of the reason we don't have Amar'e now is because what D'AnToni did to him his first year here. See the forest through the trees. Woody's ego trippin and letting the background chatter get to him. He needs to play 9-10 guys before he ends up permanently hurting someone part of the core rotation.

CrushAlot
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11/23/2012  2:33 AM
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
3G4G wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:the law of averages and human nature dictate that players and coaches will regress unless correctives are put in place.

at least woodson owned his mistakes. carmelo sort of did as well. and kidd called out the team for not moving the ball, too.

as i have been saying, anthony needs to expand his game-- more fakes on drives in order to lead to up and unders, so that the refs have no choice but to call fouls. if you see carter coming what's with the circus shot? that's when you use a ball fake and draw the foul. alan hahn protested after the game that he just doesn't understand why melo does not get "those calls." come on, hahn!

Were there times when the offense got stagnant and the ball didn't move much? Yes. But thats not why we last the game. When you give up 114 pts on the road, your probably gonna lose 10 times out of 10. Defense or lack there of contributed to the loss. Not to mention, Dallas caught fire in the 3rd and most of the 4th. Mayo, Carter and even Crowder were hitting tough shots. Its okay to give the opposition some credit sometimes.

crowders threes were demoralizing. but yes if you want to be a good road team you have to play defense and to his credit woodson admitted the loss was on him for not using the bench depth to harass an undermanned (no dirk) mav squad. my philosophy is you must put more energy into defense... and the offense will sort itself out. don't know what woodson was thinking here. maybe he was seeing how well-conditioned his tighter rotation is with an eye to the playoffs. he got his answer. not really a bad loss when you look at it that way.

I called out Woody a couple games ago for showing shrinkage with his bench. I used the term "Pecking Order" with Chrushalot discussing the lack of reason for Camby not playing and cutting back of Pablo's and Novak's minutes. If he keeps this up guys are going to burnt out by games 25-30.

Our loss had a lot to do with O.J. Mayo who's playing like an MVP posting numbers of 22ppg 50%fg 56%fg(3pt) 87%fta BY A WIDE MARGIN CAREER NUMBERS

he may have thought he had been playing with house money here but if so my opinion is that his decision is both premature and counterintuitive: you're on night 2 of a b2b so isn't that when you use your depth and grind out a defensive struggle? and preserve a playoff rotation while getting another game ahead in the division?

i don't like a short bench unless they're really young and don't have a head for the game. that isn't the knicks problem so there's no excuse not to use these guys. thomas and camby and prigoni should be folded in for 10-12 minutes a game. camby and thomas are 12 fouls. collison and mayo get hard fouled maybe they think twice i don't know. holzman used 12 guys and although it was a different era the notion is sound if you have players who are fundamentally sound. and we have vets who are fundamentally sound and won't make momentum-changing errors.

Woody is letting the winning get to his head. Although you play to win the game you can never forget it's a marathon we're in. Woody is trying to win every game almost at all cost. You can't do this at game 10. Part of the reason we don't have Amar'e now is because what D'AnToni did to him his first year here. See the forest through the trees. Woody's ego trippin and letting the background chatter get to him. He needs to play 9-10 guys before he ends up permanently hurting someone part of the core rotation.

I like the rotation of 9-10 better than the 8 man that Woodson used in the last game. However, if he is holding guys accountable as he says Prigs sucked @ss the previous game. Camby may not be at a point where he can play back to backs. There was no ball movement and the defense sucked in that game. Both of those things were a strength for the Knicks up until the Mavs game. The Mavs are well coached, have good vets and the Knicks were playing a back to back. My hope is that a game like that internalizes Woody's mantra of you can't let a team score 25 a quarter.
Phil Jackson on whether Melo has to change way he plays: I think we have to change some of the people around Carmelo
misterearl
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11/23/2012  9:34 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/23/2012  9:35 AM
3g4g - Woodson let the winning go to his head? Really?

Or he simply tried something new to win the game?

Carmelo's shot goes and Woodson is a genius?

The criteria for judging a coach is patently crazy.

once a knick always a knick
dk7th
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11/23/2012  9:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/23/2012  10:01 AM
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:
tkf wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Uptown wrote:
dk7th wrote:the law of averages and human nature dictate that players and coaches will regress unless correctives are put in place.

at least woodson owned his mistakes. carmelo sort of did as well. and kidd called out the team for not moving the ball, too.

as i have been saying, anthony needs to expand his game-- more fakes on drives in order to lead to up and unders, so that the refs have no choice but to call fouls. if you see carter coming what's with the circus shot? that's when you use a ball fake and draw the foul. alan hahn protested after the game that he just doesn't understand why melo does not get "those calls." come on, hahn!

Were there times when the offense got stagnant and the ball didn't move much? Yes. But thats not why we last the game. When you give up 114 pts on the road, your probably gonna lose 10 times out of 10. Defense or lack there of contributed to the loss. Not to mention, Dallas caught fire in the 3rd and most of the 4th. Mayo, Carter and even Crowder were hitting tough shots. Its okay to give the opposition some credit sometimes.

crowders threes were demoralizing. but yes if you want to be a good road team you have to play defense and to his credit woodson admitted the loss was on him for not using the bench depth to harass an undermanned (no dirk) mav squad. my philosophy is you must put more energy into defense... and the offense will sort itself out. don't know what woodson was thinking here. maybe he was seeing how well-conditioned his tighter rotation is with an eye to the playoffs. he got his answer. not really a bad loss when you look at it that way.


good points dk, but the offense just won't sort itself out, the knicks have to be committed to moving the ball even when times are tough, they seem to revert back to bad habits when pressed.. plus they just need more points in the paint..running pick and roll with chandler was creating havoc, hopefully they will go back to that more when amare gets back, and less of iso ball.... they have to commit to getting in the paint.. pound the paint, and you will get better shots for guys like novak without having to make 6 passes around the perimeter...

my thing about the offense, specifically jacking up shots, has to do with bad habits primarily but also conditioning issues. i hate it when smith and anthony either jack up shots like they are ready to spooge, but i also think that when they do so sometimes it is also from fatigue. look at how much energy smith exerts doing his playground crap and what is the result: he's too often out of gas to get his damned legs under him. melo has his routine too where he becomes infatuated with himself and the results are predictably horrible.

it's funny because moving the ball and running pick and roll actually takes LESS energy then the isolation playground stuff.

i'd love to see chandler get more touches in the pick and roll but lets face it felton is just not up to the task of running it-- alley oops are not pick and rolls-- so we see our point guard taking an average of 15 shots a game with an anemic 51TS%. that's not going to help the knicks come playoff time.

nice surprise is wallace-- love watching him low post guys. that should help novak a bunch and i hope woodson gets them going together because he can score from there. they double him novak is probably open.

this is why I would like to see a healthy amare back, he can run pick and roll with kidd and priggs... but the offense is going to have to be based around pick and roll.. the key is, will carmelo allow it, or will he get woodson a first class ticket back to Atlanta? As you said, a lot of good things can come from the pick and roll, and we would use less energy creating offense... but we have to commit to playing it, even if it means kidd and priggs get more of felton's minutes at pg...

ha ha ha that matter can be resolved by you know what-- stoudemire off the bench. if the knicks are rolling and woodson tries to force stoudemire into the starting lineup it could become a hot mess in no time flat. then again in the 2nd unit scenario can wallace continue to be effective in the low post if pick and roll is being run with stoudemire more of the time. he may be forced outside to be a 3-point threat along with novak too much of the time. i am not a fan of taking away our sole post player.

what do you see happening? no matter what scenario, bench or starter, it is going to become controversial, especially if the results are bad.

Dolan: I willingly and gratefully cede all power to Phil. Jackson: I believe in system basketball; I will bring back fundamentals. Fisher: We'll play the game a better way. Melo: I forced my way here. dk7th: SHOULDERGATE NO-TRADE CLAUSE 124 MILLION
jrodmc
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11/23/2012  10:16 AM
misterearl wrote:3g4g - Woodson let the winning go to his head? Really?

Or he simply tried something new to win the game?

Carmelo's shot goes and Woodson is a genius?

The criteria for judging a coach is patently crazy.

JKidd did call the team out for taking the lazy, easy path back to iso ball. Teamwork, is after all, work.

Don't think that would have changed even if we had won.

Or maybe not.

Don't expect animals to stampede or tap dance as you approach.
Game Thread: New York Knicks @. Dallas Mavericks. 8:30 PM (Wednesday).

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