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Nalod
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11/1/2012  7:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  7:15 AM
Many of you laughed and thought Brooklyn would still be like the meadowlands and no one would go. Nalod was saying a few years ago it would be big. Very big.

People are defecting not because of the team, but disgust over how the team is run. For some, Lin was the final straw. Logically I get why the knicks let him go but they handled it so badly. They treat the fan base like crap. Im not that important in the scheme of things because I don't have season tickets.

This is a good piece and makes for good arguments on both sides.


October 31, 2012
Fans in Brooklyn Have New Shoulder to Cry On
By HOWARD BECK
In the best of times, the Knicks made Nelson Ortiz weep.

It happened in 1994, when Pat Riley’s squad buckled in Game 7 of the Finals and lost the championship to the Houston Rockets.

It happened again in 1999, when the eighth-seeded Knicks returned to the Finals, in fairy-tale fashion, only to get crushed by the San Antonio Spurs.

“I cried in 1999,” said Ortiz, 26, a devout Knicks fan since childhood. “I cried in 1994.”

These were bittersweet tears, borne of hope. They are warm memories compared with the years of emotional torment that followed.

The losing. The lawsuits. The humiliation. The blown draft picks. The foolish trades. The false promise of Isiah Thomas. The petulance of Stephon Marbury. The feckless leadership of James Dolan. The callous dismissal of Jeremy Lin.

The madness. The mayhem.

“A debacle,” Ortiz said.

Ortiz kept faith through it all, his blue-and-orange cap pulled tight, waiting for the Knicks to honor his devotion. He is waiting no longer.

When the Nets have their delayed opening of the season on Saturday night, Ortiz will be draped in black and white — a proud, newly converted fan of the transplanted Brooklyn team.

“I was rubbed the wrong way for so long,” said Ortiz, who lives in Bay Ridge, “that I guess I was kind of looking for an out.”

A new era is upon us. The Nets are a New York team now, after 35 years in New Jersey. Their arrival has spawned a new breed of fan: the Knicks-to-Nets defector. They are the disillusioned, the angry, the hopeful. And their numbers appear to be growing, based on social media and anecdotal accounts.

Find a fan who switched teams, and he will tell you about three others who have done the same: a brother, a girlfriend, a co-worker. Many are Brooklyn natives who are thrilled to root for a Brooklyn team. But the defectors say they were driven away, by the same grievances that Knicks fans have been reciting for years.

“I don’t want to take this parallel too far, but it was like an abusive relationship,” said James Graham, a Prospect Heights resident who renounced his Knicks fandom. “I got out.”

There is no Gallup Poll for team allegiance, so the trend is hard to quantify. Nets officials say they are not keeping track. But this much is known: The Nets have sold nearly 11,000 full-season tickets, triple the number from last season. Most are coming from Brooklyn (37 percent), Manhattan (23 percent) and Nassau County (6 percent).

It is doubtful they all became basketball fans overnight, or were closet Nets fans all along. It is more likely that a great number are, in fact, Knicks apostates, who are making Mikhail Prokhorov, the Nets’ brash owner, look positively prophetic for declaring in 2010, “We’re going to turn Knick fans into Net fans.”

Of course, Prokhorov had lots of help, mostly from the Knicks. Few teams in the last decade have tortured their fan base as relentlessly, with a toxic brew of bad basketball, bad characters and bad karma.

The Knicks have not won a playoff series since 2000. They have had a losing record in 9 of the last 11 seasons, compiling a record of 357-529. They have been sued for sexual harassment and picketed by fans. Last season, a dispute between Madison Square Garden and Time-Warner Cable left thousands of viewers without Knicks games. That came just months after the team raised ticket prices by an average of 40 percent.

Dolan, the Garden chairman, might be the most reviled figure in New York sports.

“The only thing that would make me go back is if they sold the team,” said Brian Dowling, a 35-year-old defector who lives in Long Island. “I don’t think it will happen anytime soon.”

Dowling added, “At a certain point, I just asked myself: Is this worth it?”

Knicks fans have been asking this existential question for years, to no productive end. Who else could they root for? The Chicago Bulls? Impossible. The Boston Celtics? Unconscionable. The team in New Jersey? Meh.

But, reborn in Brooklyn, the Nets now exude cool. They have the sleek black uniforms, the imprimatur of Jay-Z and the billion-dollar arena. With an All-Star backcourt and a promising core, the Nets present a worthy alternative to fans across the region, but especially to the 2.6 million people who call Brooklyn home.

“It’s a unique phenomenon, and it’s a unique opportunity,” said Graham, 41, who lives five blocks from Barclays Center.

Graham grew up on that same street, a devout Knicks fan. He idolized Patrick Ewing, agonized over Bernard King and got his heart broken by Michael Jordan. He was at the Garden on May 7, 1995 — the day that Indiana’s Reggie Miller scored 8 points in 9 seconds to beat the Knicks in a playoff game.

“I remember my coat coming off, and my coat going back on,” Graham said with a rueful laugh.

Back then, it was the Bulls and the Pacers who caused Knicks fans the most anguish. Now it is usually the Knicks franchise itself.

In a single sentence, Graham referred to the team as “disheartening,” “illogical” and “insensitive,” directing most of his anger at Dolan.

“I didn’t make the switch lightly,” Graham said. “I was a loyal fan for a long, long time. And that loyalty, now that it’s been pried away with a crowbar, now it’s attached to a new team.”

The defectors all describe a similar evolution.

They were depressed by the Thomas-Marbury era. They were heartened by the 2008 arrival of Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni — as the new team president and coach — then distressed to see both men run off. They embraced Amar’e Stoudemire as the foundation of a promising new lineup in 2010. They cringed when that lineup was torn up in a hasty trade for Carmelo Anthony.

If there was a catalyzing event in this movement, it came July 17. That was the day the Knicks chose to let Lin — their inspiring, crowd-pleasing young point guard from Harvard — leave for Houston, rather than match a three-year, $25 million contract. To many fans, it was the ultimate slap in the face. Lin had provided more thrills and joy in a two-week span than any Knicks player had in the last 10 years. He was more popular than Stoudemire, more beloved than Anthony.

In the days that followed, Twitter timelines and fan forums were filled with wails of betrayal and outrage, and threats to abandon the team. Many followed through. Many swallowed their rage, maintaining their Knicks allegiance in spite of themselves.

“Every rational part of my brain wants to be a Nets fan,” said Brian Koppelman, a Knicks season-ticket holder since 1989.

When the Knicks let Lin walk, Koppelman swore he was done. He posted about it on Twitter and wrote an essay for Grantland.com. Then he balked.

“What makes it so difficult with a sports team is memory and connection, and the little emotional resonances that you have and you carry with you,” said Koppelman, 46.

For longtime Knicks fans, the franchise is still synonymous with Ewing and King, Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe, Bill Bradley and Red Holzman.

“My very first memory I have when I was 4 years old is me and my dad at the Garden watching the Knicks,” Koppelman said. “When I close my eyes and think of the Knicks, I still see Earl Monroe.”

So while Koppelman says that the current Knicks’ ownership “deserves to be abandoned” and “deserves to be pilloried,” it is history that keeps him coming back. This is the Knicks’ eternal advantage, and it is the reason team officials have projected unwavering ambivalence — even arrogance — about the Nets’ encroachment on their territory. The Knicks have the legendary names, the storied arena, the two championship banners hanging in the rafters. But the Knicks have been living off the fumes of that legacy for decades now. The last banner was hung in 1973. The charm is fading.

The Knicks still have Woody Allen and Spike Lee (who is staying faithful despite his Brooklyn roots) in their corner. But other celebrities have joined the defector movement. The actress Ellen Pompeo, who had been a semiregular at Knicks games, now has Nets season tickets. The filmmaker Edward Burns has also embraced the Nets (but says he still supports the Knicks, too).

Other notable Nets supporters include the rappers Fabolous and Busta Rhymes, the R&B singer Ne-Yo, the actress Rosie Perez, the actor Michael K. Williams and the pop star Justin Bieber, who wore a “Hello Brooklyn” Nets shirt on the Jimmy Fallon show.

Then there is Ethan Hawke, who in an interview with Spike TV said he felt “completely betrayed and abandoned by the way the Knicks management handled Jeremy Lin.” Hawke said the Knicks were “in my DNA,” but that he planned to take his son to Nets games this season and would re-evaluate his loyalties.

For now, the Knicks still have a sizable edge in fan support, including a two-to-one advantage in Brooklyn, according to Dan Migala, a partner at Property Consulting Group, a Chicago-based sports marketing firm.

About 24 percent of Brooklyn residents either watched, attended or listened to a Knicks game last season, said Migala, citing data provided by Scarborough Sports Marketing. By comparison, 12 percent of Brooklyn residents watched, attended or listened to a Nets game, a difference of about 250,000 people.

But those figures were based on a Nets team based in New Jersey, not one playing with “Brooklyn” across the chest. To those who live in the borough, that makes all the difference.

“Wherever I go in the world, I don’t say I’m from New York,” Ortiz said. “I say I’m from Brooklyn, and people understand that.”

Though Thursday’s meeting between the two teams was delayed in the wake of this week’s storm, the rivalry will eventually be settled on the court. When the moment comes, Knicks fans are vowing to take over Barclays Center, just as they did for years in New Jersey.

“I hope not,” said Ortiz. “But if they do, I hope they leave crying.”

It wouldn’t be the first time.


MORE IN PRO BASKETBALL (2 OF 31 ARTICLES)
Nets’ Opener Against the Knicks in Brooklyn Is Postponed
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holfresh
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11/1/2012  7:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  7:26 AM
Honestly...Not hating on the Nets or anything..But why should I care if another Knick fan decides to root for the Nets???...Why should I care if fans flock in droves to see the Nets in Brooklyn??..Why should I care if being at the new Barclay's Arena is the new hang out for hipsters???..I have my popcorn in front of my TV watching the Knicks, how does anything change for me??..As a matter of fact I hope they do so I can finally get to see some meaningful Knick games at the Garden...
Nalod
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11/1/2012  7:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  7:44 AM
holfresh wrote:Honestly...Not hating on the Nets or anything..But why should I care if another Knick fan decides to root for the Nets???...Why should I care if fans flock in droves to see the Nets in Brooklyn??..Why should I care if being at the new Barclay's Arena is the new hang out for hipsters???..I have my popcorn in front of my TV watching the Knicks, how does anything change for me??..As a matter of fact I hope they do so I can finally get to see some meaningful Knick games at the Garden...

You should not care. Its an event and people are talking about it. Your solid in your position and thats good. There are those that are fed up with the way the team is run for years.

Knicks are a business and we talking business here. There are Knick fans who are defecting and they talk about why. You have your popcorn and plop in front of the TV. The article writes about people that own season tickets or pay big bucks to attend a handful of games. Its not about "Hipsters", its about changing loyalties and emotions of those in conflict to fans who go to games.

Count me as one.

jrodmc
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11/1/2012  7:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  7:59 AM
“I was rubbed the wrong way for so long,” said Ortiz, who lives in Bay Ridge, “that I guess I was kind of looking for an out.”

I didn’t make the switch lightly,” Graham said. “I was a loyal fan for a long, long time. And that loyalty, now that it’s been pried away with a crowbar, now it’s attached to a new team.”

The defectors all describe a similar evolution.

They were depressed by the Thomas-Marbury era. They were heartened by the 2008 arrival of Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni — as the new team president and coach — then distressed to see both men run off. They embraced Amar’e Stoudemire as the foundation of a promising new lineup in 2010. They cringed when that lineup was torn up in a hasty trade for Carmelo Anthony.

"...fan forums were filled with wails of betrayal and outrage, and threats to abandon the team. Many followed through.

Pathetic. And I couldn't even bare to cut and paste the puerile Lin rant, because it's beneath talking about anymore. The pitiful whining of the disenfranchised, entitlement mind set.

Sounds like a bunch of arrested adolescents.

Go to the the Barkleys, and hooray for you, you have hip hop and Ellen Pompeno and black and white cool.

Good riddance, and please remember to stay there.

The Nets are a NY team now. SMH.

I'm still laughing.

holfresh
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11/1/2012  8:11 AM
Nalod wrote:
holfresh wrote:Honestly...Not hating on the Nets or anything..But why should I care if another Knick fan decides to root for the Nets???...Why should I care if fans flock in droves to see the Nets in Brooklyn??..Why should I care if being at the new Barclay's Arena is the new hang out for hipsters???..I have my popcorn in front of my TV watching the Knicks, how does anything change for me??..As a matter of fact I hope they do so I can finally get to see some meaningful Knick games at the Garden...

You should not care. Its an event and people are talking about it. Your solid in your position and thats good. There are those that are fed up with the way the team is run for years.

Knicks are a business and we talking business here. There are Knick fans who are defecting and they talk about why. You have your popcorn and plop in front of the TV. The article writes about people that own season tickets or pay big bucks to attend a handful of games. Its not about "Hipsters", its about changing loyalties and emotions of those in conflict to fans who go to games.

Count me as one.

I'm sure that happened with the Clippers are well..Celebrities flock court side to show their new allegiances...It's all good..I do hope enough people buy Net tickets so the Garden feels the need to compete and lower their prices...I will take my kid to see some Net games because it will be affordable...Hopefully to see a good team...Competition is always good...I want to see Dolan say f**k the cap and add another max player..So yeah, Go Nets!!!!

Nalod
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11/1/2012  8:21 AM
jrodmc wrote:
“I was rubbed the wrong way for so long,” said Ortiz, who lives in Bay Ridge, “that I guess I was kind of looking for an out.”

I didn’t make the switch lightly,” Graham said. “I was a loyal fan for a long, long time. And that loyalty, now that it’s been pried away with a crowbar, now it’s attached to a new team.”

The defectors all describe a similar evolution.

They were depressed by the Thomas-Marbury era. They were heartened by the 2008 arrival of Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni — as the new team president and coach — then distressed to see both men run off. They embraced Amar’e Stoudemire as the foundation of a promising new lineup in 2010. They cringed when that lineup was torn up in a hasty trade for Carmelo Anthony.

"...fan forums were filled with wails of betrayal and outrage, and threats to abandon the team. Many followed through.

Pathetic. And I couldn't even bare to cut and paste the puerile Lin rant, because it's beneath talking about anymore. The pitiful whining of the disenfranchised, entitlement mind set.

Sounds like a bunch of arrested adolescents.

Go to the the Barkleys, and hooray for you, you have hip hop and Ellen Pompeno and black and white cool.

Good riddance, and please remember to stay there.

The Nets are a NY team now. SMH.

I'm still laughing.

YOu a season ticket holder? How much of you money do you put to the team?

Its easy for an internet tough guy to say "good riddance" but how do you think the bean counters will feel if viewership declines? The business side of things do drive roster moves and changes the complexion of the team.

Plenty of money to go around for now. We not talking Lakers-Clips anymore. Lakers have build up a huge legacy that even a Clipper championship could not begin to chip away at. We talking 40 years with many of them empty starphuch's and the Isiah era that turned off many. Found guilty of sexual harassment tend to turn off women. Isiah is gone but Dolan is still there.

Go to the the Barkleys, and hooray for you, you have hip hop and Ellen Pompeno and black and white cool.

Good riddance, and please remember to stay there.

You sound like a jilted old intoxicated man bitterly rocking a chair on the front porch while your women is getting into a cab fed up with your antics once and for all!

TheloniusMonk
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11/1/2012  8:30 AM
This Nolad guy smh. Obsessed with the Nets. Yaawwnnnnn who cares. Next.....
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Bonn1997
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11/1/2012  8:36 AM
jrodmc wrote:
“I was rubbed the wrong way for so long,” said Ortiz, who lives in Bay Ridge, “that I guess I was kind of looking for an out.”

I didn’t make the switch lightly,” Graham said. “I was a loyal fan for a long, long time. And that loyalty, now that it’s been pried away with a crowbar, now it’s attached to a new team.”

The defectors all describe a similar evolution.

They were depressed by the Thomas-Marbury era. They were heartened by the 2008 arrival of Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni — as the new team president and coach — then distressed to see both men run off. They embraced Amar’e Stoudemire as the foundation of a promising new lineup in 2010. They cringed when that lineup was torn up in a hasty trade for Carmelo Anthony.

"...fan forums were filled with wails of betrayal and outrage, and threats to abandon the team. Many followed through.

Pathetic. And I couldn't even bare to cut and paste the puerile Lin rant, because it's beneath talking about anymore. The pitiful whining of the disenfranchised, entitlement mind set.

Sounds like a bunch of arrested adolescents.

Go to the the Barkleys, and hooray for you, you have hip hop and Ellen Pompeno and black and white cool.

Good riddance, and please remember to stay there.

The Nets are a NY team now. SMH.

I'm still laughing.


Or is it pathetic to ferociously defend a team that won one playoff game in ten years?
TheloniusMonk
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11/1/2012  8:43 AM
Anybody here know the meaning of the term diehard fan? How about life long fan? Just curious.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
holfresh
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11/1/2012  8:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  8:50 AM
Here u go Nalod, the Nets have some work to do:


Fan Loyalty, 2000-2010

Posted by Neil Paine on January 19, 2010

Here's a question that's sure to spark debate: Which NBA teams have the most loyal fans?

Well, to answer that, first you have to define how you want to measure "loyalty" in a fan base. I think we'd all agree that it's easy to come out and support the team when they're winning, but what about making the trip to the arena and dropping x amount of cash to see a demonstrably lousy team lose again and again? Irrational or not, a lot of sports fans would call that kind of behavior the mark of a true die-hard, the kind of rooter against whom we all measure our own love for our favorite teams. Obviously, this is an oversimplification -- you can fervently support a team without necessarily going to games, especially if you're not living in the same area as that team -- but the assumption remains that a team's support "at home" will track with their fandom "abroad", that the two are strongly correlated. Maybe this isn't true, but for our purposes here it's a lot easier to track attendance than it is to go out and poll people in Nevada about their support for the Lakers. So we'll go with arena attendance as a proxy for team support.

With that assumption out of the way, we now have to think about how to set up our model. Not every arena can hold the same number of fans, so it would be unfair to compare teams on the basis of raw per-home-game attendance; instead, we should make our dependent variable the percentage of capacity filled in the team's home venue. To that end, I pulled each arena's capacity off of Wikipedia... Here are the teams that filled their arenas at the highest rate since 2000:


Team Att%
Los Angeles Lakers 0.997
Dallas Mavericks 0.990
San Antonio Spurs 0.982
New York Knickerbockers 0.969
Chicago Bulls 0.963
Utah Jazz 0.962
Phoenix Suns 0.955
Sacramento Kings 0.943
Toronto Raptors 0.935
Portland Trail Blazers 0.921
Boston Celtics 0.909
Detroit Pistons 0.909
Miami Heat 0.902
Orlando Magic 0.901
Indiana Pacers 0.871
Houston Rockets 0.868
Los Angeles Clippers 0.867
Milwaukee Bucks 0.866
Washington Wizards 0.860
Denver Nuggets 0.858
Cleveland Cavaliers 0.856
Golden State Warriors 0.840
New Orleans Hornets 0.836
Philadelphia 76ers 0.814
Minnesota Timberwolves 0.790
Atlanta Hawks 0.780
Charlotte Bobcats 0.766
Memphis Grizzlies 0.762
New Jersey Nets 0.761

Not to mention the sheer amount of fans that show up on the road to see the Knicks...Like ATL, Miami, Charlotte, Washington, etc

All those teams ahead of the Knicks have won Championships in the last 15 years and we are still here...So an new Arena in Brooklyn will change all that...

Bonn1997
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11/1/2012  8:46 AM
TheloniusMonk wrote:Anybody here know the meaning of the term diehard fan? How about life long fan? Just curious.

Yeah it means you're Dolan's bitch.
ChuckBuck
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11/1/2012  8:46 AM
Fans that switch allegiances at the drop of a dime, an A-hole owner, a flash in the pan, and some fancy new digs aren't real fans anyways...
Swishfm3
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11/1/2012  9:07 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
TheloniusMonk wrote:Anybody here know the meaning of the term diehard fan? How about life long fan? Just curious.

Yeah it means you're Dolan's bitch.

Bonn..you're a clown. Stop acting all sensitive..

anyway....another lame attempt by Nalod to convert more Knick fans.

Nalod
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11/1/2012  9:09 AM

Nets HAVE been pathetic and the attendance and support shows it.

Jersey failed. Plain and simple.

Drop of a dime? Are you kidding? Article states reasons why.

They talk about the sheer numbers of Knick fans and many won't switch.

Die hard fans are season ticket owners not internet bitches. Like us.

Who here has season tix? I go to see Knicks 2-3x in Charlotte per year or on occasion in MSG.

Im not "DIE HARD" except for my internet chats with you guys.

I have defended Dolan the last time with the Walsh/MDA hirings and it kind of did not work out for reasons discussed in length many times.
The ISiah years were awful starphucks. The Layden era was about unraveling the Ewing era which upon checketts departure by Dolan was handled awful. The Dice debacle was a symptom of the starphuch desired.

The Nets got many peoples attention and the battle for NY is on!

That makes it good for NY basketball but not necessarily for the knicks. 40 years. Old Testament speaks of 40 years in the desert. Thats a long time. People lose hope they turn their attention.

Nets win a chip before the knicks they lose the city as the first class team.

holfresh
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11/1/2012  9:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  9:25 AM
In all honesty we know that's your hope..But it's a little far fetched at this point...Nets just bot Joe Johnson who they have will to pay 25 mil per in 2015...Will Jersey get a Chip by then...Let's see them win a few games first..Let's see them win a playoff game...All this bluster and they haven't even played one game yet...Is Bopez still their center, Kardashian dude, Wallace and Dwill???..They added JJ and now we are talking rings???..Really??
arkrud
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11/1/2012  9:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/1/2012  9:52 AM
holfresh wrote:Here u go Nalod, the Nets have some work to do:


Fan Loyalty, 2000-2010

Posted by Neil Paine on January 19, 2010

Here's a question that's sure to spark debate: Which NBA teams have the most loyal fans?

Well, to answer that, first you have to define how you want to measure "loyalty" in a fan base. I think we'd all agree that it's easy to come out and support the team when they're winning, but what about making the trip to the arena and dropping x amount of cash to see a demonstrably lousy team lose again and again? Irrational or not, a lot of sports fans would call that kind of behavior the mark of a true die-hard, the kind of rooter against whom we all measure our own love for our favorite teams. Obviously, this is an oversimplification -- you can fervently support a team without necessarily going to games, especially if you're not living in the same area as that team -- but the assumption remains that a team's support "at home" will track with their fandom "abroad", that the two are strongly correlated. Maybe this isn't true, but for our purposes here it's a lot easier to track attendance than it is to go out and poll people in Nevada about their support for the Lakers. So we'll go with arena attendance as a proxy for team support.

With that assumption out of the way, we now have to think about how to set up our model. Not every arena can hold the same number of fans, so it would be unfair to compare teams on the basis of raw per-home-game attendance; instead, we should make our dependent variable the percentage of capacity filled in the team's home venue. To that end, I pulled each arena's capacity off of Wikipedia... Here are the teams that filled their arenas at the highest rate since 2000:


Team Att%
Los Angeles Lakers 0.997
Dallas Mavericks 0.990
San Antonio Spurs 0.982
New York Knickerbockers 0.969
Chicago Bulls 0.963
Utah Jazz 0.962
Phoenix Suns 0.955
Sacramento Kings 0.943
Toronto Raptors 0.935
Portland Trail Blazers 0.921
Boston Celtics 0.909
Detroit Pistons 0.909
Miami Heat 0.902
Orlando Magic 0.901
Indiana Pacers 0.871
Houston Rockets 0.868
Los Angeles Clippers 0.867
Milwaukee Bucks 0.866
Washington Wizards 0.860
Denver Nuggets 0.858
Cleveland Cavaliers 0.856
Golden State Warriors 0.840
New Orleans Hornets 0.836
Philadelphia 76ers 0.814
Minnesota Timberwolves 0.790
Atlanta Hawks 0.780
Charlotte Bobcats 0.766
Memphis Grizzlies 0.762
New Jersey Nets 0.761

Not to mention the sheer amount of fans that show up on the road to see the Knicks...Like ATL, Miami, Charlotte, Washington, etc

All those teams ahead of the Knicks have won Championships in the last 15 years and we are still here...So an new Arena in Brooklyn will change all that...


Garden attendance counting is a joke. Large amount of tickets are sold to corporations to use as marketing and personal incentives.
A lot of them are not even filled during the games. Same goes for Knicks games on the road.
Brooklyn will be similar in this.
Competition is what making this world to go around.
The only way to make Knicks better is to have strong competitor in the area to force ownership hands to REALLY improve the team and start taking care about the customers.
Rangers contributed a lot from Devils, Islanders, Philly, and Boston all making a joke out of them for 10 years and forcing Dolan to fed up and go away.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
ChuckBuck
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11/1/2012  9:58 AM
Nalod wrote:
Nets HAVE been pathetic and the attendance and support shows it.

Jersey failed. Plain and simple.

Drop of a dime? Are you kidding? Article states reasons why.

They talk about the sheer numbers of Knick fans and many won't switch.

Die hard fans are season ticket owners not internet bitches. Like us.

Who here has season tix? I go to see Knicks 2-3x in Charlotte per year or on occasion in MSG.

Im not "DIE HARD" except for my internet chats with you guys.

I have defended Dolan the last time with the Walsh/MDA hirings and it kind of did not work out for reasons discussed in length many times.
The ISiah years were awful starphucks. The Layden era was about unraveling the Ewing era which upon checketts departure by Dolan was handled awful. The Dice debacle was a symptom of the starphuch desired.

The Nets got many peoples attention and the battle for NY is on!

That makes it good for NY basketball but not necessarily for the knicks. 40 years. Old Testament speaks of 40 years in the desert. Thats a long time. People lose hope they turn their attention.

Nets win a chip before the knicks they lose the city as the first class team.

Yea right...

Preach on Nalod!

The Barclays Center is that-a-way.

Swishfm3
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11/1/2012  11:04 AM
arkrud wrote:
holfresh wrote:Here u go Nalod, the Nets have some work to do:


Fan Loyalty, 2000-2010

Posted by Neil Paine on January 19, 2010

Here's a question that's sure to spark debate: Which NBA teams have the most loyal fans?

Well, to answer that, first you have to define how you want to measure "loyalty" in a fan base. I think we'd all agree that it's easy to come out and support the team when they're winning, but what about making the trip to the arena and dropping x amount of cash to see a demonstrably lousy team lose again and again? Irrational or not, a lot of sports fans would call that kind of behavior the mark of a true die-hard, the kind of rooter against whom we all measure our own love for our favorite teams. Obviously, this is an oversimplification -- you can fervently support a team without necessarily going to games, especially if you're not living in the same area as that team -- but the assumption remains that a team's support "at home" will track with their fandom "abroad", that the two are strongly correlated. Maybe this isn't true, but for our purposes here it's a lot easier to track attendance than it is to go out and poll people in Nevada about their support for the Lakers. So we'll go with arena attendance as a proxy for team support.

With that assumption out of the way, we now have to think about how to set up our model. Not every arena can hold the same number of fans, so it would be unfair to compare teams on the basis of raw per-home-game attendance; instead, we should make our dependent variable the percentage of capacity filled in the team's home venue. To that end, I pulled each arena's capacity off of Wikipedia... Here are the teams that filled their arenas at the highest rate since 2000:


Team Att%
Los Angeles Lakers 0.997
Dallas Mavericks 0.990
San Antonio Spurs 0.982
New York Knickerbockers 0.969
Chicago Bulls 0.963
Utah Jazz 0.962
Phoenix Suns 0.955
Sacramento Kings 0.943
Toronto Raptors 0.935
Portland Trail Blazers 0.921
Boston Celtics 0.909
Detroit Pistons 0.909
Miami Heat 0.902
Orlando Magic 0.901
Indiana Pacers 0.871
Houston Rockets 0.868
Los Angeles Clippers 0.867
Milwaukee Bucks 0.866
Washington Wizards 0.860
Denver Nuggets 0.858
Cleveland Cavaliers 0.856
Golden State Warriors 0.840
New Orleans Hornets 0.836
Philadelphia 76ers 0.814
Minnesota Timberwolves 0.790
Atlanta Hawks 0.780
Charlotte Bobcats 0.766
Memphis Grizzlies 0.762
New Jersey Nets 0.761

Not to mention the sheer amount of fans that show up on the road to see the Knicks...Like ATL, Miami, Charlotte, Washington, etc

All those teams ahead of the Knicks have won Championships in the last 15 years and we are still here...So an new Arena in Brooklyn will change all that...


Garden attendance counting is a joke. Large amount of tickets are sold to corporations to use as marketing and personal incentives.
A lot of them are not even filled during the games. Same goes for Knicks games on the road.
Brooklyn will be similar in this.
Competition is what making this world to go around.
The only way to make Knicks better is to have strong competitor in the area to force ownership hands to REALLY improve the team and start taking care about the customers.
Rangers contributed a lot from Devils, Islanders, Philly, and Boston all making a joke out of them for 10 years and forcing Dolan to fed up and go away.

But according to Nalod those, and the celebs sitting courtside, are all the DIE HARD fans!!

Nalod
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11/1/2012  11:14 AM
holfresh wrote:In all honesty we know that's your hope..But it's a little far fetched at this point...Nets just bot Joe Johnson who they have will to pay 25 mil per in 2015...Will Jersey get a Chip by then...Let's see them win a few games first..Let's see them win a playoff game...All this bluster and they haven't even played one game yet...Is Bopez still their center, Kardashian dude, Wallace and Dwill???..They added JJ and now we are talking rings???..Really??

Nobody said they were championship contenders. Not even them. All teams talk about their goals.

YOu can shyt all over them, and other teams in defense of the KNicks but I prefer to let the Knicks speak for themselves.

If you wish not to discuss the matter thats fine. I posted the article as I found it interesting as a knick fan.

Wearing colors and seeing things thru the prism of one dimension is not a bad thing. I don't harp that your a blind fool for your devotion. In my 8 years hear I always discuss the business side of things.

If you want to take my evaluation as a form of betrayal then be my guest. Its a bit sophmoric in my opinion but your entitled to your point.

If the W-L records are the most important thing then let them speak for themselves.

If fans are getting fed up with knick ownership and the empty starphuching they promote then understand whats going on.

NY fans want to feel good about the knicks that has been hard to do since 1999. Knicks need not worry about the Nets if they take care of their own.

Some of you feel that putting down other teams elevates the knicks. If it works for you, then don't stop. Don't stop believing!

Nalod
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11/1/2012  11:20 AM
Knick attendance gets boasted from tourists also. I'd venture to say they do quite well with out of towners who want to experience "The worlds most famous Arena"!

Cowboys in Texas get a good amount of people who want to experience the stadium.

Some of you thought since nets failed in Meadowlands it would translate over to Brooklyn. It won't unless the product on the floor really is awful.

Times articles mirrors some discussions had on the UK

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