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Summary of Jeremy "Gift" Lin's Pre-Season....
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gunsnewing
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11/15/2012  2:41 AM
Syniko wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Lin is not the player Felton is.

Is that because of Woodson?


Lin under McHale/Sampson = Failure

Lin under Woodson = Success.


When Lin played under Woodson, he was active offensively. He controlled the ball. There was no pass-and-park play that the Rockets are employing right now. I never once saw Lin just passively playing under Woodson. He was involved offensively. He controlled the ball and he was active. He didn't just pass all the time and ran off to a corner and wait for an opportunity to shoot.

Rockets offense are weird as hell.


Exactly Thank you
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earthmansurfer
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11/15/2012  2:55 AM
Syniko wrote:
NYKMentality wrote:Man, box score aside, Jeremy Lin was awful out there tonight. Struggled against a below average Hornets team. Looked lost and confused out there. Just an overrated player due to 26 career regular season games. Can't stress it enough, thank god our front office passed up on overpaying Lin while contining to improve our roster/franchise.

And I can't stressed enough how badly the coach is playing him as a spot up 3 shooter. If Lin were still a Knicks right now and all he did was spot up for a shot, you and everyone else would be screaming about it. Lin/Novak was so beautiful to watch. Because Lin is the passer in that offense, not the spot up shooter. Why is he the spot up shooter? I just get it? Rockets SMH.

We all know the running offense of Lin is his strong suit. The Rockets turned him into a boring player and in turn, they're turning their entire roster into boring players along with it.

If they want to make Harden a PG, why don't they just come out and say it.


I'm not comparing Lin to Nash here but imagine if Nash were a 'pass and park' player like Lin right now. Fans would be screaming mad about it. Under McHale and Sampson, even Nash would look tired and boring.

No confidence at all in Lin. He's getting crappy possession and crappy shot selections.

There was a moment in the 4th where Lin was wide open and Harden was standing 3 feet behind him. The lane was wide open. Lin hesitated for a moment before turning around to pass the ball to Harden.

WTF kind of crap is that? That's not the LIN we all know. He would have busted down the middle lane and draw a foul AND one. It's sad to see Lin not rushing the lane anymore and yet people are ripping on him for him.

It is sad to see how they are utilizing Lin in Houston. I thought Harden would be great for him, to take off some pressure, but it looks like they are just trying to turn Harden into a star and not necessarily make the team better. They will not be able to move Lin's contract and will just be shooting themselves in the foot with their play of Lin.

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Syniko
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11/15/2012  2:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  3:06 AM
MSG3 wrote:
Syniko wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Lin is not the player Felton is.

Is that because of Woodson?


Lin under McHale/Sampson = Failure

Lin under Woodson = Success.

I'm serious. Rockets offense are weird as hell.

It's because of D'Antoni. His game is predicated on driving and kicking. Perfect for MDAs system. He is a poor destitute mans version of Harden. The two of them make for an awkward lineup.

I'm watching videos of Lin under Woodson's coaching versus Lin as a Rockets and it is completely two different player. Anyone would have to be blind not to notice it.

gunsnewing
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11/15/2012  3:19 AM
Syniko wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
Syniko wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Lin is not the player Felton is.

Is that because of Woodson?


Lin under McHale/Sampson = Failure

Lin under Woodson = Success.

I'm serious. Rockets offense are weird as hell.

It's because of D'Antoni. His game is predicated on driving and kicking. Perfect for MDAs system. He is a poor destitute mans version of Harden. The two of them make for an awkward lineup.

I'm watching videos of Lin under Woodson's coaching versus Lin as a Rockets and it is completely two different player. Anyone would have to be blind not to notice it.

I mentioned a million times how awesome Lin was under Woodson but no one wants to hear. Its like they were were watching a different game. 2 games that always come to mind and Ive mwntioned before is when we beat a great Indy team back to back nights, Amare, Melo and Lin all played great. Lin hit huge shots in the 4th inside, midrange and 3 ball

NYKMentality
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11/15/2012  5:30 AM
Of course it's two different players. Too different situations. Different teams. Coaches. Teammates. Fans. The whole 9. The only one to blame for this, is Jeremy Lin himself. No one physically forced Lin to sign a contract so high, in which the Knicks front office were forced to then have seconds thoughts. If he's ran out of the league or becomes a gigantic bust? Lin only has himself to blame for this. A true Knick at heart doesn't play 26 amazing games, makes a name for himself with rocking our iniform, the only team in which truly gave him a chance, the franchise that saved his basketball dream, a player who's now loved by the city, treated like a royal king, praised and repsected etc, etc and signs a contract so large, with the same exact team who cut him as practice trash. Then says he wishes he were still a Knick. He took his money, Most men and players would. It is what it is. Good for Lin, he's now a millionaire for life despite the fact that New York's marketing would've made him a potential billionaire (possibly).

If this isn't a good offensive system for Lin, it's his fault. He went to Harvard, right? He shoudl've used common sense, and remembered how he was treated with Houston his first go around. What type of offensive system they used/ran. He made a mentail mistake signing with the Rockets, of all teams. The truly great one's, the truly special one's, dominate the game of basketball regardless of head coach. From Jordan, to Shaq, Kobe, all the way back to Carmelo Anthony... The elite offensive players stand out. The cream always rises to the top. Not the ideal situation for Jeremy Lin? Was he then a product of a Mike D'Antoni coached/ran offense? He can't adjust on the fly? That sounds like a personal problem for Lin, not something die hard N.Y fans should feel sorry about. Not something Knick fans shouldn't mention in regards to his box score numbers and/or production on the basketball court.

Melo can be harped all over, and judged, and so can J.R Smith and Stoudemire, but yet.. Lin is too protected for that? Getting the Tebow treatment due to being a good person as if most players aren't? Is it because he's an underdog? Why do some fans of this franchise protect Lin from his critics? Melo's Nuggets franchise missed the playoffs during (I believe) 7-8 consecutive years without a playoff birth. Then the drafting of Melo happened. And that was that, during the elite/golden years of the Western Conference power house teams too. Denver then went on to land 7-8 consecutive trips to the postseason with Melo leading that franchise (on his back). Lets see if Jeremy Lin can do the same for a Houston franchise. If he's a franchise player, he'll rise to the top. If not? He'll continue to be mocked and rightfully so.

CashMoney
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11/15/2012  5:36 AM
Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

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holfresh
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11/15/2012  7:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  7:25 AM
CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...

holfresh
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11/15/2012  7:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  7:40 AM
I actually feel bad for the guy...No one wants to see him fall on his face...But no one wants to hear how great he is when we know otherwise...I hope he gets it together and find his place on the team and settle into a career..8 mil a year is steep and is going to be a lot to live up to..Fans are brutal and won't let him live it down...Let's face it, he took the money, as much of it as he can get...I've been preaching this from the end of last season..He would have been great coming off the bench behind Felton...Just calling his own number running the second team...He is successful when he has the ball and darting into the lane, looking for others...My moms use to say u lay in the bed u make...
NUPE
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11/15/2012  7:49 AM
Lin has played awful ball. However, there is still ample time for him to improve this season. I think when it is all said and done, this year, the Knicks would have made the right decision. Felton will give us similar production or slightly better to what Lin gave under Woodson at a substantially cheaper cost.
holfresh
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11/15/2012  7:54 AM
NUPE wrote:Lin has played awful ball. However, there is still ample time for him to improve this season. I think when it is all said and done, this year, the Knicks would have made the right decision. Felton will give us similar production or slightly better to what Lin gave under Woodson at a substantially cheaper cost.

Come on...With the defense, floor generalship and being able to run an offense...Felton is a lot better...Being able to pass isn't the only aspect of running an offense...It's also knowing how to, when to, and where to get the most production out of your top players..Knowing who to ride when they are hot and knowing where guys will be in the offense..Stuff that we still have to iron out...Don't let these rook basketball analyst tell u who knows how to run a team...

Silverfuel
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11/15/2012  8:04 AM
Wish him luck and move on. Hope this thread is not near the top all season.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Bonn1997
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11/15/2012  8:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  8:11 AM
holfresh wrote:
CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...


49% is not OK. It's bad. But it is better than Felton. After last night's game, he's in Felton territory. When you analyze the #s after the first 5 or 6 games, they'll bounce around a lot.
NUPE
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11/15/2012  8:23 AM
holfresh wrote:
NUPE wrote:Lin has played awful ball. However, there is still ample time for him to improve this season. I think when it is all said and done, this year, the Knicks would have made the right decision. Felton will give us similar production or slightly better to what Lin gave under Woodson at a substantially cheaper cost.

Come on...With the defense, floor generalship and being able to run an offense...Felton is a lot better...Being able to pass isn't the only aspect of running an offense...It's also knowing how to, when to, and where to get the most production out of your top players..Knowing who to ride when they are hot and knowing where guys will be in the offense..Stuff that we still have to iron out...Don't let these rook basketball analyst tell u who knows how to run a team...

Lin, under Woodson, played well just not at Linsanity levels. Lin on Hou. has been trash.

Felton right now is playing slightly better than Lin did under Woodson based on my recollection.

ChuckBuck
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11/15/2012  8:29 AM
Let's put this thread to rest fellas...

Lin is who "real" Knicks fans thought he was. It's not the system, not the team, not the coach, not the surrounding players.

The one constant is the player. Knicks made the right decision. Move on now.

He is what he is.

foosballnick
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11/15/2012  8:57 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
foosballnick wrote:Lin's salary is not average. NBA salaries do not simply work by taking the contract total and dividing by the number of years. Due to the way his contract was backloaded it will be extremely difficult to move Lin should he not perform to expectations. And quite frankly, expectations will be high given his media darling status. Should he faulter or perform below average and not continue to generate a media buzz, there is little reason for other teams to be interested in Lin or for the Rockets to have paid him even an average salary.

Given the new CBA....Morey made some rather curious moves. He gave a substantial contract to Lin based upon virtually no track record. He gave a substantial contract to Asik with a limited track record. He gave a major max contract to Harden, who although has shown to be really good at times, has never been the lead player on an NBA team. Further, neither Harden nor Lin are true point guards, both are score first lead guards who crave the ball. Not generally the stuff that creates an NBA championship roster. This is not following money ball principles which is to underpay for efficient players. In fact, Morey reminds me of how the Isiah Knicks used to operate.


His contract is not backloaded. The backloading would have occured only if the Knicks had matched the offer.


Bonn, you are correct. My bad.

holfresh
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11/15/2012  8:58 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  8:59 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...


49% is not OK. It's bad. But it is better than Felton. After last night's game, he's in Felton territory. When you analyze the #s after the first 5 or 6 games, they'll bounce around a lot.

That stat is nonsense..It was a joke...

Bonn1997
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11/15/2012  9:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  9:28 AM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...


49% is not OK. It's bad. But it is better than Felton. After last night's game, he's in Felton territory. When you analyze the #s after the first 5 or 6 games, they'll bounce around a lot.

That stat is nonsense..It was a joke...


No, you just don't understand it. You think free throws are unimportant for some reason. Going 2 for 2 from the line helps your team just as much as (if not more than) making a field goal.
holfresh
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11/15/2012  9:31 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  9:37 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...


49% is not OK. It's bad. But it is better than Felton. After last night's game, he's in Felton territory. When you analyze the #s after the first 5 or 6 games, they'll bounce around a lot.

That stat is nonsense..It was a joke...


No, you just don't understand it. You think free throws are unimportant for some reason.

It's a clown stat...Hollinger is making up stuff and you guys are buying into it...Free throws are very important but in context...Shaq was an all time great..DHow can be..They can't hit the side of a barn if they were pissing on it...How would they do...A guy can take one ft and hit it and throw off all the numbers....Clown stat...

Points / (2 * (FG Attempts + 0.44 * FT Attempts))...That's it right???...Who determines what weighted values are assessed to Ft, 3pts and 2ps??? Hollinger???

Bonn1997
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11/15/2012  9:34 AM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...


49% is not OK. It's bad. But it is better than Felton. After last night's game, he's in Felton territory. When you analyze the #s after the first 5 or 6 games, they'll bounce around a lot.

That stat is nonsense..It was a joke...


No, you just don't understand it. You think free throws are unimportant for some reason.

It's a clown stat...Hollinger is making up stuff and you guys are buying into it...Free throws are very important but in context...Shaq was an all time great..DHow can be..They can't hit the side of a barn if they were pissing on it...How would they do...A guy can take one ft and hit it and throw off all the numbers....Clown stat...


None of that justifies ignoring FTs when evaluating players' scoring.
holfresh
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11/15/2012  9:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/15/2012  9:41 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
CashMoney wrote:Lin was awesome under MDA but played well under Woodson. Lin's numbers went down dramatically under Woody. He was playing solid basketball but was not doing anything special. I mentioned this numerous times in other threads but the excuse always was that he was playing injured and not 100%. I also have stated that Lin was not going to be a special player like many here continously state.

Passing the ball to Harden within 3 second of passing the half court line is going to effect his assist numbers but there really is no excuse for his putrid shooting. What's the excuse for shooting 2 for 10 last night? What's the excuse for his 35% FG% and his 30% 3 PT%?

Yeah he's only 8 games into the season but as of right now it looks like the Knicks made the right move. For Lin to be effective he needs the ball in his hands and needs to drive to the basket. Lin in a half court offense in neutralized. I expect that his FG% and 3PT % will improve but I don't beleive that Lin is going to be the player that many here expected him to be.

Actually 3 pt% is closer to 27% but his TS% is 49%, better than Felton, so he is doing ok...


49% is not OK. It's bad. But it is better than Felton. After last night's game, he's in Felton territory. When you analyze the #s after the first 5 or 6 games, they'll bounce around a lot.

That stat is nonsense..It was a joke...


No, you just don't understand it. You think free throws are unimportant for some reason.

It's a clown stat...Hollinger is making up stuff and you guys are buying into it...Free throws are very important but in context...Shaq was an all time great..DHow can be..They can't hit the side of a barn if they were pissing on it...How would they do...A guy can take one ft and hit it and throw off all the numbers....Clown stat...


None of that justifies ignoring FTs when evaluating players' scoring.

Hollinger assess his own weighted values on FT and FG correct??..

Summary of Jeremy "Gift" Lin's Pre-Season....

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