As far as clutch goes, Melo is right up there.

Here is a nice article from 2011 in regards to Melo's clutch numbers. Carmelo was #1 while PP did not even make the list.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time (final 24 seconds of games)

This year he was number 3 behind K-Irving and KD:

http://www.82games.com/1112/CSORT11.HTM (last 5 minutes of games)

Now we all know about Kobe's intangibles, his grit his defense and I DON't think Melo is Kobe. I do think he is closer to PP though but offensively, not that far from Kobe. Adding Lebron and KD to the comparison was/is pointless since they are so far ahead of all these guys. The same goes for Wade but I added his numbers anyways which are certainly better than the rest. Here is a comparison of Kobe, Wade, Paul Pierce and Melo:

PPG:

Kobe = 25.4
Wade = 25.2
Carmelo = 24.7
PP - 22.0

Rebounds:

Carmelo = 6.3
PP = 6.0
Kobe = 5.3
Wade = 5.1

Assists:

Wade = 6.2
Kobe = 4.7
PP = 3.8
Carmelo = 3.1

FG%:

Wade = 48.6
Carmelo = 45.6
Kobe = 45.3
PP = 44.8

FTA:

Wade = 8.9
Carmelo = 7.8
Kobe = 7.6
PP = 7.4

FT%:

Kobe = 83.8
PP = 80.7
Carmelo = 80.5
Wade = 77.0

3PT%:

PP = 36.9
Kobe = 33.7
Carmelo = 32.2
Wade = 29.1

PER:

Wade = 25.7
Kobe = 23.4
Carmelo = 20.7
PP = 20.4

Now Melo has his issues and I pined for Lebron, Wade or even DWil but he certainly has haters who enjoy misleading/spinning.

Melo had a better year last year as far as passing the ball (3.6 assists) but this is certainly a glaring hole in his game. He should be averaging 4-4.5. Kobe and Wade are guards so I do expect them to have more assists (though Kobe should do better there (Kobe 4.7 vs Wade 6.2).

Melo's defense and full game intensity also needs work. Hopefully Woody can keep him motivated though he should not need a coach to do that for him at this point in his career.

He has a lot of pressure on his shoulders - Can't wait for this season.

Better career FG% than Kobe and Pierce

Monta Ellis
Rudy Gay
Brandon Roy
Aaron Afflalo
Deron Williams
Derrick Rose
Dirk
Luol Deng
Andre Iguodala

All Scoring Guards/Forwards

wade 50.0 eFG
pp 49.9 eFG
kobe 48.6 eFG
melo 47.8 eFG

people deride the TS% stat and i really don't know why, since it folds in FTA into the eFG:

pp 56.9 TS% with 6 seasons of above 58% which is elite scoring 27.8 USG
wade 56.6 TS% with 2 seasons 32.4 USG
kobe 55.4 TS% with 1 season at exactly 58% 31.8 USG, 33.8 USG post shaq
melo 54.4 TS% has 0 seasons of 58% and only 2 seasons above 56% 31.2 USG

if you set up a ratio of TS to USG you get

pp 2.05
wade 1.75
kobe 1.43
melo 1.74

where the higher the number the more efficient.

durant 1.93
lbj 1.79
dirk 2.14
jordan 1.70 pretty low but he more than made up for it with his defense which was head and shoulders above anyone else on this list-- often forgotten.
bird 2.13
magic 2.73 just for kicks

that scrub gallinari is 3.01 and seems to indicate he is deserving of more touches.

wade and melo are about even but wade makes up for this with more assists, in my opinion. there is no excuse for bryant... he's the essence of ballhog and the numbers back this up. if he wants to shed the label he needs to do one thing: share the fvck.in rock!

edit: i wish my formatting held up so sorry for the visual confusion.

I will say if a player's TS is amongst the best such player should be involved as much as possible if it lends to improving overall team play.

A player such as Gallo and I know you hon in on TS very heavily DK because it favors him, the issue with Gallo is slow start and overall motor. While Gallo is by no means what you call a ball stopper, he is a surveyor and more calculated in his reaction. He needs to play quicker/with more instincts but allow all his unselfish traits to remain. He also needs to play where he has a go to move or area of the floor in which it is known he'll be the most difficult to guard. Hit open shots on a consistent basis. All these things are still question marks in his game.

Anyway back on topic and try not and bring Gallo into the discussion as you're only asking for issues. I agree on efg% as it is a greater metric in offensive analysis.

Still waiting as to why this thread was created. Any Melo supporter feel free to break it down and explain. What was the goal here?

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'm not sure why this thread was created.

Neither am I. This is at least the 100th time Mrk has boasted about the similarity between Kobe's and Melo's #s.

A bit of an exaggeration even for you but that's ok. You hate it because its true.

I agree that Melo should be more efficient but so does Kobe. Kobe has the great defense which makes him a better overall player but offensively, they are eerily similar. That does not make Melo great it just puts it in perspective.

They both are somewhat inefficient. Kobe got past this with great efficient teammates and being a first team all defender.

Kobe could be more efficient but quite frankly Kobe's numbers suffer largely due to the fact he's trying to be someone he's not(Jordan) and he gets bored so he challenges himself to the highest degrees of difficulty in games. Still unacceptable but Kobe has 5 rings and is an absolute killer when it matters most the majority of the time.

But if Kobe has a lot to prove to you in the efficiency area then Melo has a lot to prove in Post-Season and getting wins.

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'm not sure why this thread was created.

Neither am I. This is at least the 100th time Mrk has boasted about the similarity between Kobe's and Melo's #s.

A bit of an exaggeration even for you but that's ok. You hate it because its true.

I agree that Melo should be more efficient but so does Kobe. Kobe has the great defense which makes him a better overall player but offensively, they are eerily similar. That does not make Melo great it just puts it in perspective.

They both are somewhat inefficient. Kobe got past this with great efficient teammates and being a first team all defender.

Kobe could be more efficient but quite frankly Kobe's numbers suffer largely due to the fact he's trying to be someone he's not(Jordan) and he gets bored so he challenges himself to the highest degrees of difficulty in games. Still unacceptable but Kobe has 5 rings and is an absolute killer when it matters most the majority of the time.

But if Kobe has a lot to prove to you in the efficiency area then Melo has a lot to prove in Post-Season and getting wins.

"Kobe has 5 rings and is an absolute killer when it matters most the majority of the time."

Kobe is NOT a better clutch scorer than Melo! He does have 5 rings though - of which much can be contributed to great efficient teammates (unless you are blind or skewed to a position)

"But if Kobe has a lot to prove to you in the efficiency area then Melo has a lot to prove in Post-Season and getting wins."

Melo certainly has a lot to prove. I am glad the season is starting. However, he is not getting past Lebron, bosh and Wade because we are not good enough. So, let the championship shutout continue and I am sure he will get the lion share of the blame. Deserved? Who is quantifying and how? If he loses to teams that he is favored to beat, I blame him.

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:i think that since the advent of the 3-point line it's better to use the eFG% stat:

wade 50.0 eFG
pp 49.9 eFG
kobe 48.6 eFG
melo 47.8 eFG

people deride the TS% stat and i really don't know why, since it folds in FTA into the eFG:

pp 56.9 TS% with 6 seasons of above 58% which is elite scoring 27.8 USG
wade 56.6 TS% with 2 seasons 32.4 USG
kobe 55.4 TS% with 1 season at exactly 58% 31.8 USG, 33.8 USG post shaq
melo 54.4 TS% has 0 seasons of 58% and only 2 seasons above 56% 31.2 USG

if you set up a ratio of TS to USG you get

pp 2.05
wade 1.75
kobe 1.43
melo 1.74

where the higher the number the more efficient.

durant 1.93
lbj 1.79
dirk 2.14
jordan 1.70 pretty low but he more than made up for it with his defense which was head and shoulders above anyone else on this list-- often forgotten.
bird 2.13
magic 2.73 just for kicks

that scrub gallinari is 3.01 and seems to indicate he is deserving of more touches.

wade and melo are about even but wade makes up for this with more assists, in my opinion. there is no excuse for bryant... he's the essence of ballhog and the numbers back this up. if he wants to shed the label he needs to do one thing: share the fvck.in rock!

Good stats - thanks.

Gallo being at 3.01 certainly calls some of this into question - I see his number going down however with the new flopping rules - even though the Gallo jock riders hillarously claim that he does not flop.

His great FT% certainly helps his efficiency.

Also, with some of these advanced stats, seeing Lebron so low is a bit alarming. To me, he is one of the top 2-3 players that I have seen in the last 30 years (with Kobe not even in the stadium)

Your point of the introduction of the 3pt line is a good one as well. PP is a good 3pt shooter and that makes up for his pretty poor overall 2 point shooting.

don't be alarmed. look at jordan's numbers. lebron has the highest assist average by far and he has raised his defensive play to elite level in the last 1.5 seasons, almost on a par with jordan. again, i maintain that the unspoken key to jordan's success and greatness is on the uphill side of the court.

@3G4G you have a point regarding volume that is a flaw in my ratio but i will maintain that it nonetheless backs up the relative selfishness that can only be ameliorated by hockey assists and defensive prowess.

dk7th wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

dk7th wrote:i think that since the advent of the 3-point line it's better to use the eFG% stat:

wade 50.0 eFG
pp 49.9 eFG
kobe 48.6 eFG
melo 47.8 eFG

people deride the TS% stat and i really don't know why, since it folds in FTA into the eFG:

pp 56.9 TS% with 6 seasons of above 58% which is elite scoring 27.8 USG
wade 56.6 TS% with 2 seasons 32.4 USG
kobe 55.4 TS% with 1 season at exactly 58% 31.8 USG, 33.8 USG post shaq
melo 54.4 TS% has 0 seasons of 58% and only 2 seasons above 56% 31.2 USG

if you set up a ratio of TS to USG you get

pp 2.05
wade 1.75
kobe 1.43
melo 1.74

where the higher the number the more efficient.

durant 1.93
lbj 1.79
dirk 2.14
jordan 1.70 pretty low but he more than made up for it with his defense which was head and shoulders above anyone else on this list-- often forgotten.
bird 2.13
magic 2.73 just for kicks

that scrub gallinari is 3.01 and seems to indicate he is deserving of more touches.

wade and melo are about even but wade makes up for this with more assists, in my opinion. there is no excuse for bryant... he's the essence of ballhog and the numbers back this up. if he wants to shed the label he needs to do one thing: share the fvck.in rock!

Good stats - thanks.

Gallo being at 3.01 certainly calls some of this into question - I see his number going down however with the new flopping rules - even though the Gallo jock riders hillarously claim that he does not flop.

His great FT% certainly helps his efficiency.

Also, with some of these advanced stats, seeing Lebron so low is a bit alarming. To me, he is one of the top 2-3 players that I have seen in the last 30 years (with Kobe not even in the stadium)

Your point of the introduction of the 3pt line is a good one as well. PP is a good 3pt shooter and that makes up for his pretty poor overall 2 point shooting.

don't be alarmed. look at jordan's numbers. lebron has the highest assist average by far and he has raised his defensive play to elite level in the last 1.5 seasons, almost on a par with jordan. again, i maintain that the unspoken key to jordan's success and greatness is on the uphill side of the court.

@3G4G you have a point regarding volume that is a flaw in my ratio but i will maintain that it nonetheless backs up the relative selfishness that can only be ameliorated by hockey assists and defensive prowess.

Well I think that you at least agree that Kobe is miles from Jordan and that Lebron is way ahead.

I do not argue that Kobe and Melo are both way too selfish. My only gripe with Kobe (and this was Shaq's gripe) is that when you are playing with players like Shaq and you are selfish, you are REALLY selfish.

An argument can be made that Amare is Melo's Shaq, that is a dumb argument and I need not explain (at least in regards to the last 1.5 years of Amare). Wanna blame Amare's lack of efficiency on Melo? Go ahead but Amare missing open jumpers is his own issue. Its all about his jumper which is sorely needed to create space. Either way, Amare != Shaq.

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

3G4G wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'm not sure why this thread was created.

Neither am I. This is at least the 100th time Mrk has boasted about the similarity between Kobe's and Melo's #s.

A bit of an exaggeration even for you but that's ok. You hate it because its true.

I agree that Melo should be more efficient but so does Kobe. Kobe has the great defense which makes him a better overall player but offensively, they are eerily similar. That does not make Melo great it just puts it in perspective.

They both are somewhat inefficient. Kobe got past this with great efficient teammates and being a first team all defender.

Kobe could be more efficient but quite frankly Kobe's numbers suffer largely due to the fact he's trying to be someone he's not(Jordan) and he gets bored so he challenges himself to the highest degrees of difficulty in games. Still unacceptable but Kobe has 5 rings and is an absolute killer when it matters most the majority of the time.

But if Kobe has a lot to prove to you in the efficiency area then Melo has a lot to prove in Post-Season and getting wins.

"Kobe has 5 rings and is an absolute killer when it matters most the majority of the time."

Kobe is NOT a better clutch scorer than Melo! He does have 5 rings though - of which much can be contributed to great efficient teammates (unless you are blind or skewed to a position)

"But if Kobe has a lot to prove to you in the efficiency area then Melo has a lot to prove in Post-Season and getting wins."

Melo certainly has a lot to prove. I am glad the season is starting. However, he is not getting past Lebron, bosh and Wade because we are not good enough. So, let the championship shutout continue and I am sure he will get the lion share of the blame. Deserved? Who is quantifying and how? If he loses to teams that he is favored to beat, I blame him.

Apparently "Matters Most" flew right over your head....At the "highest stakes".....Post-Season, Playoffs, Advancing from Series to Series, Finals

So Mr Statistician. Your team has to be in clutch situations to perform in such situations but heck - who cares about that. Melo had Iverson (Mr 40 pct) while Kobe had Shaq and Gasol. And, did you breakdown Melo's stats in the playoffs in these clutch situations? Or, are you just using your brilliant eye/memory test?

No what you don't get is this. I'll take having a player being clutch on my team but give me a player who plays in fashion where the "Clutch Gene" doesn't have to factor into games.

Ask yourself how many Games did the Heat win in the Post-Season this past playoffs where the games came down to the Finals couple possessions? Well not that many(maybe 1 1/2gm per series?) because the Heat and Lebron were good enough to not be in those situations habitually.

Who the hell can argue that?

Lebron and Wade are all WORLD!

How many games did the Lakers win on heroic shots (Rober Hory)? Too many!

The "team" puts you in those situations not any one player. As great as Lebron and Wade are, look how they struggled without Bosh. YOU NEED A COMPLETE TEAM.

mrKnickShot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:I'm not sure why this thread was created.

Neither am I. This is at least the 100th time Mrk has boasted about the similarity between Kobe's and Melo's #s.

A bit of an exaggeration even for you but that's ok. You hate it because its true.

I agree that Melo should be more efficient but so does Kobe. Kobe has the great defense which makes him a better overall player but offensively, they are eerily similar. That does not make Melo great it just puts it in perspective.

They both are somewhat inefficient. Kobe got past this with great efficient teammates and being a first team all defender.