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Splitting the minutes at PF/C
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VDesai
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3/17/2004  11:58 AM
There are only 96 mins to spread between the two positions...

The reason I like Nazr is he can run and jump despite being 6-11 250, and he's a pretty great rebounder. He gets a lot of easy baskets when he is in...kind of the "garbage man" points the Knicks were missing. His post game may never come around, but this guy puts up 14 points quite easily.

Right now Baker is definitely the top low post threat though, and he is certain to get minutes. He's still a little rusty, but he looks pretty smooth on the offensive end, and his rebounding and shotblocking has been solid in these 3 games.

And of course Sweetney's continued great play should not go unnoticed. His rebounding is top notch, and his post moves are developing. I really think he can blow up Zach Randolph style in the playoffs.

And of course we still have the old stalwart KT, who's had a rough stretch lately due mostly to the pinky injury. But when he's healthy we need his jumper, D, and defensive rebounding. And being the established starter, he is likely to get the most minutes out of the whole group.

This leaves Deke and Othella. Will they be fazed out? Deke has certainly been a key contributor in some games, but also has not been as useful against some teams. When do you play him and who against, if it all? And Othella offers some energy and hardwork, but is clearly less talented and useful as the other guys. Does he deserve to get regular minutes anymore? We know Lenny likes him...

So the question is, there are 96 mins to split between Baker, Mohammed, Deke, Kurt Thomas, Sweetney and Othella. How would you break down the mins?




[Edited by - VDesai on 03/17/2004 12:08:36]
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technomaster
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3/17/2004  12:33 PM
I think first you start with giving KT about 30mpg and Sweetney about 18. The rest of the guys have to play a center by committee.

There are times when Mohammed is not effective and Mutombo is... but you also need/want Baker in the mix. Let's pencil in Baker for 25mpg... and give the remaining 23 to Mohammed/Mutombo. I'd imagine it's unlikely both will play in the same game unless the situation calls for it.

Harrington is out of the mix for now, just as a foul-trouble replacement.

All of this talk reminds me of what we had in the beginning of the year, with Mutombo/Doleac/Thomas/McDyess/Harrington... we didn't have any minutes for 'Spoon or Sweets.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
gunsnewing
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3/17/2004  2:07 PM
Unfortunately I think Mutombo won't get off the bench anymore. Only occasionally. I agree KT should get 30-32min tops.
TheSage
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3/17/2004  2:39 PM
You must start out with KT at 30-35 depending upon his fouls and how he is playing leaving 61-66 minutes, pencil Sweets in for 20+/-minutes leaving 41-46 minutes and Vin Baker has to get 24 leaving 17-22 minutes for Nazr. Any other time has to go to Deke depending upon fouls and the nature of the opposition. They may want to play Sweets at SF to pick up some of TT's time filling in between Penny's time time there.

Anderson has shown he is a defensive stopper where H2O is not outshooting the opposition and Penny is off on his shot.

bernard
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3/17/2004  5:11 PM
I haven't seen much of Nazr except in his short Knick stint. How does he handle true, big, post-up centers, a la Shaq, Ilgauskas, Vlade? May be that against guys like this, Motumbo gets real minutes, but against the power forward masquerading as centers that most teams feature, you split the time between Nazr and Baker.

I'd enter the game thinking roughly 50/50 between these guys, and adjust based on how they're playing, and I'd enter the game thinking roughly 30 minutes for Kurt/18 for Sweets, and, again, adjust based on what they're getting done.

Othella is where he belongs, on the bench.
gunsnewing
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3/17/2004  5:24 PM
I agree 100% Deke should only play against the bigger and slower centers.
TRU
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3/17/2004  5:45 PM
I don't know about splitting the time with so many players. I'm a firm believer in the Riley/VanGundy practice of running an 9-man rotation in the playoffs.

That means the starting five, plus Penny, Baker, Anderson (for lack of a better backup at the 3) and Sweets. No Deke (unless a special situation calls for it), no FWill or Norris (Penny can play the one, and Steph doesn't sit anyway), no Othella Harrington.

Lenny should start this rotation asap so the players can adjust.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
VDesai
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3/17/2004  6:14 PM
To me Sweetney should get at least 20-25 mins a game. He's really starting to develop, and needs those minutes. In addition, he's an asset every time he's out there now. His rebounding has been awesome, and he provides some good hustle and effort that has been lacking on our front line.

KT should get about 28-30 minutes. If his hand is still bothering him he shouldn't be logging so many minutes right now. His play has been subpar for the last few games.

Nazr should get about 25 mins. His consistent rebounding presence is needed, and IMO he works well with Marbury. He should get a decent amount of minutes for now, while Baker continues to get used to the team. Baker would get the rest of the minutes here...about 16-23. He can play more often when he is providing an offensive spark.

I agree, Othella should never get off the bench. Mutumbo should also only be used situationally. I think he has a lot of use to many teams in the NBA still, but we now have better than average depth up front and don't require his services as much.
gunsnewing
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3/17/2004  8:36 PM
i think Baker and Nazr should get equal time or little more for baker since he's our only low post scorer and is a better defender than Nazr.
gunsnewing
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3/17/2004  8:47 PM
I'm not happy with our starting lineup. I don't know if it's Nazr, Kurt Thomas, or Houston's fault. We come out flat every game. I think it's Nazr and Kurt because teams kill us in the paint early in games! I think Baker and Sweetney need to be put in the starting lineup. Or at least Baker for Nazr.
Stevo718
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3/17/2004  9:18 PM
Mutombo said he'd rather retire then get traded so at most he'll play another year, but the only role I see him in are key defensive stops late in games. So limit him to few to none minutes per game.

With our current team I'd start Kurt and Sweetney at C and PF and rotate with Nazir and Baker at C and PF.

the rest would be:

T.Thomas
Houston
Marbury

w/Hardaway and Anderson (although I'd like to see Johnson in the mix and lose Anderson, maybe some time next year)

Once we get our chemistry on I see a real possibility of playoff damage, but we wouldn't stand a chance with our undersized C's, I don't think Nazir/Kurt would hold it down against West Centers.

That's when Isiah waves his MAGIC STICK and lands us J.O'Neal... YOU READ IT HERE FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!
BigSm00th
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3/17/2004  10:03 PM
I agree with the Knicks starting slow, something should be done. Baker and Sweetney give the starting 5 a tremendously potent offense, and KT and Nazr would definitely help the 2nd unit.

It'll be something to tinker with, I don't see one guy playing much more than anyobdy else, which is good.

Mutumbo and Harrington have no business being on the court.
Marbury, Houston, Thomas, Sweetney, Baker as the starting 5. Penny, unfortunately Anderson, KThomas, and Mohammed. Norris as emergency backup G in case anything bad happens (hopefuly Frank when he gets back, if not, NOrris is nice to have as the 10th man.)
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spreeeewell
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3/18/2004  10:39 AM
Our starting 5 should be: PG/Marbury SG/Houston SF/T.Thomas PF/Baker C/Nazr. It makes us bigger, faster and plenty of offence; This lineup will get us going fast. Kurt should be the 1st off bench,then Sweets,Penny,Anderson and F.Will or depending on who is needed 1st;We need to stick with a 9 or 10 man rotation for the rest of the year. P.S. Isaih if you get to read this post please do not contact me cause I already have a job...
I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees!
gunsnewing
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3/18/2004  12:11 PM
no defense though. I rather go with c-Baker pf-Kurt
VDesai
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3/18/2004  3:43 PM
Nazr came in with a rep of being a pretty good one on one defender, but for whatever reason he hasn't flashed that yet and gets beat on the backdoor cuts too often. I think his best function though is against the western conference, and running style teams. For example, I expect him to get a lot of minutes vs. the Nets. He's clearly the most athletic of the centers on our roster and can run up and down the floor without fatiguing too much.
technomaster
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3/18/2004  4:43 PM
People don't often make mention of the stress fractures (plural) he suffered prior to last season in his right foot. From what I've read, he hasn't moved quite as well since the injury (and its subsequent repair, requiring a screw to be placed in his foot!), perhaps a reason for his step back statistically (not to mention Ratliff's recovery).

http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/hawks/1003/07hawks.html

As his foot gets stronger (over time), you'd hope that he'll regain some of the lateral movement he lost. While I've labeled him as a journeyman center in the past (let's face it, he is), when healthy he's more athletic, is stronger, and has longer arms than a lot of his competition (the Corey Blounts of the world). He doesn't have any range at all on his jumper-- but if he could hit the 5-10ft short jumper, it'd make him like 100x more valuable.
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s3231
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3/18/2004  5:03 PM
Honestly I think our frontcourt has been doing well lately so I wouldn't look to change that. By adding Baker we now have very good depth at the PF and C positions. I think Mutombo will also be big for us if we make the playoffs. However, I think for us to advance far in the playoffs we need our backcourt (Starbury and Houston) to play well. That means Houston has to be healthy, and Marbury has to put up points while still getting others involved. If our backcourt plays well along with solid contributions from the frontcourt, this team can beat anyone in the playoffs. Yes, I said ANYONE. We have a good bench, a true playmaker, a sharpshooter, an experienced Center who can play big for us, a slasher, etc. If we don't mess up in any of those areas, this team will be dangerous.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
VDesai
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3/18/2004  7:39 PM
Good point about Nazr's injury. I haven't seen that posted here before. Thanks for making us aware...
Splitting the minutes at PF/C

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