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this team desperately needed a rebuild
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BRIGGS
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3/16/2004  10:21 PM
thats is the bottom line--yes i have seen marbury and have been swayed by his talent--and when i said the trade for him would go down as one of the worst ever--really what i meant was it was a bad decision to not tear down the walls and rebuild with lampe sweetney williams and milos+ high draft picks and smart MLE's. When you lose to wash at home--when you lose to all of these bad teams after you have spent a bazillion dollars you have a top 3-4 PG with a huge payroll--you realize just how far how very far this bad team is away from even coming close to competeing for a championship. This team is so bad that its falling out of playoff position in this weak and I mean weak east. and only by the grace of god did we win in mil or else we would be 2 full games out of 8 with harder games coming up


this is just awful talk about being stuck in mud the knick and the bulls
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Rich
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3/16/2004  10:27 PM
May be. But it's not going to happen no matter what we think, or no matter how cogent an argument any of us make. I'm not ready to give up on Isiah.

But I don't think Lampe is any good (his feet are too slow), and I don't think Vujanic was ever signing with the Knicks.

btw, They won.
BRIGGS
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3/16/2004  10:27 PM
well i spoke a bit pre-maturely about the W or L but the story is the same-this team is bad.
RIP Crushalot😞
Andrew
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3/16/2004  10:38 PM
I do see the team in rebuilding mode....just not the same type. Really though, if you take the strategy you outlined, you very well may end up 5 years from now with some good players that developed and some good players with the mid-levels but no star player. I also agree with what Isiah said when he got here....NY is not a place where you tear it all down and rebiuld.

Are we really as bad as some poeple make us out to be? Knicks are a bit over .500 since Lenny/Marbury arrived I think. We'd porblably be better with more gel time for the players.

If we are lucky enough to a Sheed next year we'd probably will be top 4 in the East. I rather take that chance than with total rebuilding.
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GoNyGoNyGo
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3/16/2004  10:44 PM
The problem right now is cehmistry not TALENT! In addition NY has a relatively young team. The PG is 26, The SF is 27, the PF is 31, The C is 26 and 32. They have Sweetney and Fwill both young and showing promise. NY's weakest positions are SG right now because of HOuston's health. If you include Dj as a future Knick, he is young too! The age on this team is Mutombo and houston. All the rest are good for a dew years at least.

I see the glass as half full. Earlier in the season, it was half empty.
VDesai
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3/16/2004  10:47 PM
We aren't THAT bad. It's just that the effort is not consistent right now, especially on the defensive end. Chalk that up to the players not being comfortable with each other. And chalk it up a little to the talent level and skill set of the players. With Baker and Sweetney playing, they have better balance. I feel that as long as no major changes happen to roster (i.e. injuries), that the team might start flashing a lot more towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. They do have a ways to go, and hopefully Lenny will get them to where they need to be as quickly as he can.
nyvector16
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3/16/2004  11:00 PM
I would'nt trade the position we're in now with the players we have now for what we had at the start of the season FOR THE WORLD!!

The rebuilding arguement is MOOOOOOOOOT!
Layden was NOT rebuilding... and never intended to.
THat's why we traded away Nene Hilaro and Camby for a broken player in McDyess. No matter how many ways you slice it... NOOOOO GM coming to NY was gonna tear the house down and rebuild from scratch.

We got rid of Weatherspoon & Eisley.
We gave away some prospects and young raw talent for a proven Superstar who is about to go into his prime.
We got atheletic and very young FAST!!!

If you listen to interviews around the league players are actually referring to NY as the place where many people would love to play.

I am happy about where we are...
EVEN if we did'nt make the playoffs this year.
We are still in excellent shape for next year.. and for picking up some sweet talent in the offseason. We have expiring contracts, the Mid Level Exception, and some decent talent that teams would not mind trading for.

We are in GREAT shape!!!
Your free to think any way you like of course...
But KNicks fans haven't been this happy in years!!!
And I for one.. am grateful to even be in this type of position.



KNICKS RULE!!!!!!!
Van Horn Drools!!!
martin
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3/16/2004  11:21 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

thats is the bottom line--yes i have seen marbury and have been swayed by his talent--and when i said the trade for him would go down as one of the worst ever--really what i meant was it was a bad decision to not tear down the walls and rebuild with lampe sweetney williams and milos+ high draft picks and smart MLE's.

I still can't believe the build from scratch theory. By the above, do you mean pull a Chicago? They are doing so well. So is LAC and Golden State, perrenial high drafters.

Isiah just did rebuild the Knicks, ala Inidana Walsh style. Guys haven't gelled, but the building blocks are there.
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EnYKnickFan
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3/16/2004  11:23 PM
Why in the hell would any player in the world take a cut in pay when he can get more??? Im a knick fan and dont have dreams like that. Players wont come here unless its a sign and trade. lol get real wallace will realize hmm i might get more money in detroit and wait still win.

[Edited by - EnYKnickFan on 03/16/2004 23:33:54]
Rich
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3/16/2004  11:32 PM
The key to signing Wallace may be to have a player selected in the expansion draft. Every team that loses a player will be awarded an injury exception. If that exception can be combined with the MLE (I'm uncertain of whether it can), there would be enough money to sign Wallace or another free agent.
martin
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3/16/2004  11:33 PM
Posted by EnYKnickFan:

Why in the hell would any player in the world take a cut in pay when he can get more??? Im a knick fan and dont have dreams like that. Players wont come here unless its a sign and trade. lol get real wallace will realize him i might get more money in detroit and wait still win.

remember, Wallace may NOT be able to sign in Detroit because of Okur. They can only sign one of those guys to big money.
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VDesai
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3/16/2004  11:35 PM
Depending on how well Baker plays down the stretch, he might be the contigency MLE signing if we cant get Wallace.
EnYKnickFan
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3/16/2004  11:37 PM
Wallace will have another team with a better ofter.. hell he aint getting younger and if theres a team where he can still get payed/win he will go there. Knicks will only get him if they give him a good ofter not none of what there offering him. People do strange things but Wallace coming here i could careless cause i want him to come and dominate for the knicks.
Andrew
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3/16/2004  11:38 PM
Posted by Rich:

If that exception can be combined with the MLE (I'm uncertain of whether it can)

Unfortunatly no it can't
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Andrew
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3/16/2004  11:39 PM
Posted by EnYKnickFan:

Wallace will have another team with a better ofter..

What teams? There are not alot of teams that are going to have 6-10 million in cap space next year.
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EnYKnickFan
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3/16/2004  11:50 PM
So Wallace will come to NY? is what your saying..
Rich
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3/17/2004  12:01 AM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by Rich:

If that exception can be combined with the MLE (I'm uncertain of whether it can)

Unfortunatly no it can't

I wonder if a team could trade for an exception and combine it with the MLE. When the Knicks had one for LJ, it was reported that they couldn't combine it, but the team they traded it to could.
nyvector16
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3/17/2004  12:09 AM
The Key to the wallace signing will be what happens in the expansion draft with the Bobcats. If Detroit dumps enough salary, it can sign both Okur and Wallace. We might be able to swing a deal with them to get rid of someone for us and that might help us out.
Also... Depending on how far and how frustrated Wallace gets in the playoffs with the Pistons will also determine his desire to resign with them. All in all... Wayyyyyyy to many factors to sepculate about when it comes to Wallace in the offseason.
Bobby
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3/17/2004  1:39 AM
We need to rebuild from within. I see guys like Popovich, Carlisle, and Franks making a coaching impact with Dumars, Walsh and Thorn supporting their cast IMO is more meaningfull than any trade we may desperately think we need.

"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
tkf
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3/17/2004  12:44 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BRIGGS:

thats is the bottom line--yes i have seen marbury and have been swayed by his talent--and when i said the trade for him would go down as one of the worst ever--really what i meant was it was a bad decision to not tear down the walls and rebuild with lampe sweetney williams and milos+ high draft picks and smart MLE's.

I still can't believe the build from scratch theory. By the above, do you mean pull a Chicago? They are doing so well. So is LAC and Golden State, perrenial high drafters.

Isiah just did rebuild the Knicks, ala Inidana Walsh style. Guys haven't gelled, but the building blocks are there.


great post, I agree the building blocks are here, and this is a form of rebuilding, If you look at the Bulls, Warriors, and clippers they are in costant turmoil and always lottery bound.... You rebuild when you have some picks and cap room and players that other teams want for some reason, layden never put the knicks in a position to do that, now zeke has undone his mess and the knicks are now a team that can sucessfully retool..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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this team desperately needed a rebuild
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