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Laydog - Isiah combo
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martin
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3/15/2004  9:23 PM
Old news I know, but in an ideal world I would have liked to see Layden as the Knicks' #1 right hand man with Isiah working the phones.

Remember, Layden was supposed to be the guy behind the scenes for Dave Checketts, not out in the open as he was. In front of the press Scott was a hare to the hounds. No one appreciated his communication/marketing skills, but let's look at the recent players he drafted (or had drafted for the Knicks). Vujanic, Lampe, Frank Williams, Sweetney, Vranes. The guy is money with the second round.

Layden's trade capabilities are very suspect (to put it mildly), but that's where Isiah comes in. Bold, aggressive, assertive, daring, smooth talker.

I wonder if the Marbury trade would have gone down if it was for 2 second rounders instead of the already drafted Vujanic and Lampe.

I'd like to have seen the both of them work together.

(by the way, who came up with the knickname “Laydog”, I like it)
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MaTT4281
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3/15/2004  9:38 PM
I'll pass. I'm still having fun throwing darts at my scott layden picture and listening to my tape of the "fire layden" chants.
martin
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3/15/2004  9:39 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

I'll pass. I'm still having fun throwing darts at my scott layden picture and listening to my tape of the "fire layden" chants.

OK, LOL
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1
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Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
3/15/2004  10:08 PM
Posted by martin:

Old news I know, but in an ideal world I would have liked to see Layden as the Knicks' #1 right hand man with Isiah working the phones.

Remember, Layden was supposed to be the guy behind the scenes for Dave Checketts, not out in the open as he was. In front of the press Scott was a hare to the hounds. No one appreciated his communication/marketing skills, but let's look at the recent players he drafted (or had drafted for the Knicks). Vujanic, Lampe, Frank Williams, Sweetney, Vranes. The guy is money with the second round.

Layden's trade capabilities are very suspect (to put it mildly), but that's where Isiah comes in. Bold, aggressive, assertive, daring, smooth talker.

I wonder if the Marbury trade would have gone down if it was for 2 second rounders instead of the already drafted Vujanic and Lampe.

I'd like to have seen the both of them work together.

(by the way, who came up with the knickname “Laydog”, I like it)

Money in the second round??? Sweetny was from the 1st round and FWills was not drafted by the Knicks he was part of the McDyess trade from Denver. Vujanic and Lampe haven't proven anything yet, how can they be called money picks. Vranes sucked, he's not even in the NBA anymore.

Do you know what you are talking about?
martin
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3/15/2004  10:34 PM
Posted by 1:
Posted by martin:

Old news I know, but in an ideal world I would have liked to see Layden as the Knicks' #1 right hand man with Isiah working the phones.

Remember, Layden was supposed to be the guy behind the scenes for Dave Checketts, not out in the open as he was. In front of the press Scott was a hare to the hounds. No one appreciated his communication/marketing skills, but let's look at the recent players he drafted (or had drafted for the Knicks). Vujanic, Lampe, Frank Williams, Sweetney, Vranes. The guy is money with the second round.

Layden's trade capabilities are very suspect (to put it mildly), but that's where Isiah comes in. Bold, aggressive, assertive, daring, smooth talker.

I wonder if the Marbury trade would have gone down if it was for 2 second rounders instead of the already drafted Vujanic and Lampe.

I'd like to have seen the both of them work together.

(by the way, who came up with the knickname “Laydog”, I like it)

Money in the second round??? Sweetny was from the 1st round and FWills was not drafted by the Knicks he was part of the McDyess trade from Denver. Vujanic and Lampe haven't proven anything yet, how can they be called money picks. Vranes sucked, he's not even in the NBA anymore.

Do you know what you are talking about?

sure do. How about Anderson and B Russell. Second round gems.

Both Vujanic and Lampe have not proven anything, but ask anyone NBA insider and they'll tell you that these guys are big potential prospects.

And I did qualitfy FWill as a "had drafted for the Knicks" (meaning, Phoenix picked for them).

Do you know what you are talking about? Take the foot out of mouth and don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
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Nalod
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3/15/2004  10:41 PM
Laydog would have gotten Marbury. Colangalo wanted out of his contract and Stern most likely brokered the deal. Laydog would have nickeled and dimed it better, but who knows.

Laydog had a different time agenda than Isiah. Blame Dolan for that.

TV ratings are up 75% since "The Trade". Laydog was on like a 5 year plan and we were heading toward the lottory before our 180 turnaround.

Its water under the bridge now. Laydog is gone, and we got Isiah making interesting moves, that have yet to do much more than last years team. Ratings are up, and the team should be ok next year.

Laydog is my gig. Laydown is not bad either. Too bad it was not "Layup". How about "Laysiah" for your prototype GM. Sounds too much like a supermodel. Hey, youcan name your daughter that!

[Edited by - nalod on 03/15/2004 22:42:54]
MaTT4281
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3/15/2004  11:03 PM
Laydog is my gig. Laydown is not bad either. Too bad it was not "Layup". How about "Laysiah" for your prototype GM. Sounds too much like a supermodel. Hey, youcan name your daughter that!

That would be one scary ass looking daughter
martin
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3/15/2004  11:04 PM
Posted by Nalod:

How about "Laysiah" for your prototype GM. Sounds too much like a supermodel. Hey, youcan name your daughter that!

Laysiah, I like that!
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simrud
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3/15/2004  11:23 PM
Sure and lets bring back Albiachi too, then we'll really have the best GM ever. Cmon man Ladyen sucked bigtime. Look ast his signings. If you want him for the draft make him your scout and talent evaluator, just don't let him near the team or any kind of decisions. Better yet, hire some other scourt/talent evaluator who is better anyways. Picking Lampe was a nobrainer. FW is a 1st round pick. Vranes sucked, almost a certain bust. His picks from the year before FW in the 2nd round are not in the NBA. Chenowith??? Pete Micheal??? Michel Wright??? Layden sucks, period.
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BigSm00th
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3/15/2004  11:54 PM
Though I agree with Martin, without Layden's drafting of Lampe or Vujanic the Knicks never get Marbury. Sweetney is turning into a great pick, and FWilliams was a nice player as well (Boozer was passed over though).

But hasn't Isiah made some nice picks in the past? I know he drafted McGrady, Camby (pre-injury(s), he was pretty can't miss), and Damon Stoudamire (pre-marijuana) who I believe won ROY. I'm pretty sure he traded for Jamal Tinsley, also a nice deal (also turned out to be a ROY).

I'm more than happy Layden is gone though. If they had reduced him to a scout or what not like the Magic did with Gabriel I would've been happy, as long as he's not signing or trading anybody.
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martin
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3/16/2004  12:47 PM
Posted by simrud:

Picking Lampe was a nobrainer. FW is a 1st round pick. Vranes sucked, almost a certain bust. His picks from the year before FW in the 2nd round are not in the NBA. Chenowith??? Pete Micheal??? Michel Wright??? Layden sucks, period.

If Lampe was a no brainer why did half of the GMs out there pass on him? The Vranes jury is still out (way out), no way you can label him a certain bust.

Drafting second round players is tricky. Let me turn the tables: Name one player drafted after Chenowith or Wright who ARE in the NBA that Layden missed.
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fishmike
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3/16/2004  1:20 PM
Lampe was a no brainer for round 2 because he fell, and if you have to wait a few years nobody cares.. thats what 2nd rounders are for. Picking Sweetney doesnt impress me, I think Layden did was he was supposed to, just draft the best available. I think it was either Sweetney or Collison.

I cant really credit him as a talent evaluator. He did fill this roster with Knight, Spoon, Anderson, Eisley, Slavko... His trades were all terrible. Even the ones that could have been good like McDyess and KVH he didnt fix the other needs so those trades were pointless.

And as for the draft Isiah pushed for Fred Jones, and drafted Tmac, Camby, Damon (ROY) in 3 years as Tor GM. When you consider how hit and miss the draft is thats awfully good to me.

I do agree Layden was never meant to be GM, but his moves (as a whole) did nothing to show me he could be trusted to build anything or change previous mistakes.
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Stevo718
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3/16/2004  3:03 PM
Why do we alawys have this conversation? It'll never end, I bet if the Knicks win a championship within the next 2 years people will still say that yeah we won but we dont have much of a "future" after this or some other moronic thing.

Look at the lineups... Layden vs Isiah

even if you include Milos and Lampe as starters AND you add a McDyess with healthy knees AND you assume Milos and Lampe live up to the hype would it still be a better team then the one we have now?!?!

Think about it... NO ONE WANTED TO COME HERE W/LAYDEN HERE, NOW PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO. Even Milos didn't want to come here. Yeah and Layden is the 2nd round GEM FINDER especially like the time he took Weis over Ron Artest.

Old news I know, but in an ideal world I would have liked to see Layden as the Knicks' #1 right hand man with Isiah working the phones.

I wouldn't even want Layden handling the beer stand at MSG.
Nalod
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3/17/2004  10:24 AM
I liked laydog the man. He had his chance, did not produce, and some of his moves will be ok IN TIME. Time is something cablevision does not have. So they made an instint gradification move. We cash in the assets and get a better team.

Comparisions are apples and oranges as the owner changes direction.

Laydog had some bad cards delt to him, and he made some real sucky moves himself. I, like most fans were hoping for improvements.

Laydog was over his head with being full gm, likely will make a good assistant GM. I hope he resurfaces and gains some of the respect and EARNS some sucess in the future. We are all sorry it did not work out for him, by that, we all wish the team had succeeded better.
martin
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3/17/2004  10:44 AM
Posted by Stevo718:

Think about it... NO ONE WANTED TO COME HERE W/LAYDEN HERE, NOW PEOPLE ACTUALLY DO. Even Milos didn't want to come here. Yeah and Layden is the 2nd round GEM FINDER especially like the time he took Weis over Ron Artest.

how many times does this incorrect statement crop up? Layden came AFTER the Weis draft.
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fishmike
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3/17/2004  11:07 AM
that was Ernie and Checketts doing.
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martin
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3/17/2004  11:11 AM
Posted by fishmike:

that was Ernie and Checketts doing.

Actually, Tapscott. Same fella that has some sort of high level position with the Bobcats.

What's even more shocking about passing over Artest is that Kirilenko was still out there too.
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fishmike
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3/17/2004  11:58 AM
Tapscott was an exec, but Ernie was GM and Checkets VP. I actually remember an interview Ernie gave talking about Weiss. He said he had great upside, and as Ewing got older would be able to step in, take minutes and prolong his career.
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martin
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3/17/2004  12:06 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Tapscott was an exec, but Ernie was GM and Checkets VP. I actually remember an interview Ernie gave talking about Weiss. He said he had great upside, and as Ewing got older would be able to step in, take minutes and prolong his career.

Checkets was still there but wasn't Erinie gone by then?
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martin
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3/17/2004  12:08 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by fishmike:

Tapscott was an exec, but Ernie was GM and Checkets VP. I actually remember an interview Ernie gave talking about Weiss. He said he had great upside, and as Ewing got older would be able to step in, take minutes and prolong his career.

Checkets was still there but wasn't Erinie gone by then?

"He was New York's vice president of player personnel and basketball operations during the 1990s, when the team made two trips to the NBA Finals.

He served briefly as interim general manager in 1999 after Ernie Grunfeld was fired. Tapscott's first-round draft pick that year — Frederic Weis of France, who never played a game in the NBA — drew criticism. Tapscott later was fired."

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