... the good news is the example of the Heat's big two is good news for our dynamic duo. Plain and simple, it takes time. This is the second full season of the (cough) championship Heat running as buddies. Our beloved Knicks, injuries and shortened season, have a training camp and summer to build their communication skills. The emotions will have settled down and our roster has a core and stability at GM/Head Coach for the first time this century.

The Knicks future is bright.

"Now, go get me a point guard"

knicks1248 wrote:labron doesnt take 30 shots while wade takes 7..and there not chuckers who hoist up any shot available..they look for each other, melo looks for his shot 8 out of every 10 possesions..

Some of you said Amare looks lost sometimes out there, you would too if you don't where or when your going to getting the ball. There's really no logical reason why amare and melo are not doing more P&R.. but I won't put all that on melo, it's part woody as well..

no training camp and no consistent PG play adds to the inconsistency as well.

misterearl wrote:AnubisADL - everyone knows Lebron and DWade can operate as solo acts. That is not news. However, this thesis offers that they need each other to make the team better... and to win.

Winning is the bottom line.

Carmelo and Amar'e have their limitations, which have been well documented. Big deal. They may simply need to find the areas where they can compliment the other... to make the team better. It could be so simple as playing with their heads up. Selfless.

That is on both ends. If Carmelo has flashed a determination to play defense, perhaps Amar'e will get the message and join the fun. They don't need to be "in sync" because this ain't coordinated swimming. They need to be attentive and more alert. Move without the ball and be ready for the pass.

Go fast when the opportunity presents itself. Lead by example. Dare the other guys to keep up.

It isn't just about Melo and Amare, we have to include Tyson Chandler, and even Lin.
The thing is, Melo is not an elite, in the same bracket as Wade and Lebron.
Neither are players that move well off the ball, with poor defense, and do not have the ability to penetrate without the handle, and speed/quickness to do so.
He does not possess the handle, penetration, versatility, defense, and physical skills (athleticism, speed/ quickness) as an elite has.
He is a high volume scorer, that likes to produce STATS, which are very misleading because it kills team chemistry and doesn't allow the team to get in rhythm when he goes ISo.
Whenever he touches the ball, our opponents are ready to get in rebounding position, and get ready for a fast break if he misses, because chances of him taking a bad % shot is very high. It doesn't help that he cannot post up, because Amare and Tyson Chandler takes up the space, as they will be left open if they are trying to spread the floor.
Their guys will cheat and leave them for the shot. One of them could be used as the player that sets the PnR, but one *usually Amare* will be used to spread the floor in which he has trouble getting his shot off. It hurts significantly, when neither has a post game, and don't even fight for post position.

Amare is no where near those guys, he is probably closer to the half stars like Josh Smith, with less overall skills, with only one skill (dunking).
He struggles playing at PF, because PF's match up with his speed/quickness, and athleticism, especially with Tyson Chandler's limitations on the offensive end.
He has played great for much of his career playing the "center" while he is quicker/faster and usually much more athletic than a Center.
The center usually has to give him the shot, if not, he can blow right by him and dunk.
While at PF, the opponents can keep up with him, while the Center is ready to help once he gets in the paint, because he only has one move, often forcing it in for a blocked shot or TO. Amare does try to move the ball, but with Melo going 1v1 so much, once he touches the ball, it means less shots for anyone on the team, including him.
He is been reduced from Alpha dog from the team, loss players that were all versatile, have good all round skills, following the game plans, and were about moving it to the open man.
Look at many games in which he has VERY little shot attempts because when he moves the ball, he won't get it back, leading to a Melo bad shot, or JR Smith bad shot, because they are the only ones that have the ability to create their own shots, with the lack of penetration and facilitating guards. His defense is a big weak link, while unable to defend his position, and requiring much help form Tyson Chandler, while when Chandler helps him or someone else, NO one, including Amare can cover for Tyson.

During Linsanity, the team used Lin's ability to penetrate to initiate the offense, and players that cut, were left open when Lin broke the opponents defense down, were rewarded with the basketball. We played without Amare, and Melo, with 2nd unit players, which are much less skilled than these "stars". They played good team defense and were all on the same page, moving the ball to whoever was open. There were much more screens set, aside from the PnR, other picks were used, cutters, movement off the ball, and plays used that used all players on the floor as an option/threat. They might not hit the shot but they all got back and played good defense, while giving much effort.
Our rotation usually included a 8 man rotation of, with mainly players that were all either good on defense or offense, but played a much more balanced game.

Lin/JR/ Baron Davis/ Bibby
Iman/ Fields/ Baron
Fields/ Novak
Novak/ Jeffries
Tyson Chandler/ Jeffries

The only way you play LeBron and Wade is to get phisical knock them on their ass when they pull that fancy stuff. You must bully Wade and let him know that every time he drives in there will be a price he must pay. The old Knicks with Oakley and Ewing and Starks would have punked them.

RonRon wrote:

misterearl wrote:AnubisADL - everyone knows Lebron and DWade can operate as solo acts. That is not news. However, this thesis offers that they need each other to make the team better... and to win.

Winning is the bottom line.

Carmelo and Amar'e have their limitations, which have been well documented. Big deal. They may simply need to find the areas where they can compliment the other... to make the team better. It could be so simple as playing with their heads up. Selfless.

That is on both ends. If Carmelo has flashed a determination to play defense, perhaps Amar'e will get the message and join the fun. They don't need to be "in sync" because this ain't coordinated swimming. They need to be attentive and more alert. Move without the ball and be ready for the pass.

Go fast when the opportunity presents itself. Lead by example. Dare the other guys to keep up.

It isn't just about Melo and Amare, we have to include Tyson Chandler, and even Lin.
The thing is, Melo is not an elite, in the same bracket as Wade and Lebron.
Neither are players that move well off the ball, with poor defense, and do not have the ability to penetrate without the handle, and speed/quickness to do so.
He does not possess the handle, penetration, versatility, defense, and physical skills (athleticism, speed/ quickness) as an elite has.
He is a high volume scorer, that likes to produce STATS, which are very misleading because it kills team chemistry and doesn't allow the team to get in rhythm when he goes ISo.
Whenever he touches the ball, our opponents are ready to get in rebounding position, and get ready for a fast break if he misses, because chances of him taking a bad % shot is very high. It doesn't help that he cannot post up, because Amare and Tyson Chandler takes up the space, as they will be left open if they are trying to spread the floor.
Their guys will cheat and leave them for the shot. One of them could be used as the player that sets the PnR, but one *usually Amare* will be used to spread the floor in which he has trouble getting his shot off. It hurts significantly, when neither has a post game, and don't even fight for post position.

Amare is no where near those guys, he is probably closer to the half stars like Josh Smith, with less overall skills, with only one skill (dunking).
He struggles playing at PF, because PF's match up with his speed/quickness, and athleticism, especially with Tyson Chandler's limitations on the offensive end.
He has played great for much of his career playing the "center" while he is quicker/faster and usually much more athletic than a Center.
The center usually has to give him the shot, if not, he can blow right by him and dunk.
While at PF, the opponents can keep up with him, while the Center is ready to help once he gets in the paint, because he only has one move, often forcing it in for a blocked shot or TO. Amare does try to move the ball, but with Melo going 1v1 so much, once he touches the ball, it means less shots for anyone on the team, including him.
He is been reduced from Alpha dog from the team, loss players that were all versatile, have good all round skills, following the game plans, and were about moving it to the open man.
Look at many games in which he has VERY little shot attempts because when he moves the ball, he won't get it back, leading to a Melo bad shot, or JR Smith bad shot, because they are the only ones that have the ability to create their own shots, with the lack of penetration and facilitating guards. His defense is a big weak link, while unable to defend his position, and requiring much help form Tyson Chandler, while when Chandler helps him or someone else, NO one, including Amare can cover for Tyson.

During Linsanity, the team used Lin's ability to penetrate to initiate the offense, and players that cut, were left open when Lin broke the opponents defense down, were rewarded with the basketball. We played without Amare, and Melo, with 2nd unit players, which are much less skilled than these "stars". They played good team defense and were all on the same page, moving the ball to whoever was open. There were much more screens set, aside from the PnR, other picks were used, cutters, movement off the ball, and plays used that used all players on the floor as an option/threat. They might not hit the shot but they all got back and played good defense, while giving much effort.
Our rotation usually included a 8 man rotation of, with mainly players that were all either good on defense or offense, but played a much more balanced game.

Lin/JR/ Baron Davis/ Bibby
Iman/ Fields/ Baron
Fields/ Novak
Novak/ Jeffries
Tyson Chandler/ Jeffries

If melo is not elite, then i don't know what elite is. He may shoot in volumes, but he also make scoring look so easy, he's a good rebounder, and solid passer ( when ever he decides) more clutch then bron and wade put together, and plays good defense(when ever he decides)And in all reality, no one can guard him one on one not even your bruce bowen 2.0..when he's off, it's usually him rushing shots, it has nothing to do with who's guarding him.

If Melo and Stat are struggling to find each other on offense, perhaps a 6'10 prodigal son replaces Jared Jeffries as the conduit.

Hell yes.

RonRon - your breathtaking analysis looks backward, not forward. Rather than base our hypothesis on the past, why not project growth and change?

Looking forward...(with a rabbits foot in the pocket)

As for the actual roster, and Odom’s potential role therein, the fit could not be more ideal. At 6 feet 10 inches, Odom is a veritable Swiss army knife of skills and strengths, all of which the Knicks could use. As the first forward off the bench, Odom would be the perfect plug-in for Amar’e Stoudemire, while giving the second unit – marshaled as it very well could be by the enigmatic Toney Douglas – a second reliable ball handler through which myriad halfcourt sets could be run. Couple that with serviceable rebounding and defense, and a long-renowned passing prowess, particularly out of the post, you have a player whose versatility and dynamism could do wonders for a top-heavy team pining for depth.

At 32 and not far removed from one of the most productive seasons of his career, it is hard to think of Odom as merely biding his time in the twilight. His strange stint in Dallas revealed the darker side of a psyche ravaged by too many tragedies to count, and to that end his agent’s remark that Odom is just looking for a place to “be comfortable” is likely an accurate one. The fact that Odom’s native New York happens to be one of the places should be enough to give any Knicks fan positive pause.

For a franchise too often content to overpay past-prime talent, getting Lamar Odom on the cheap would prove not only a wallet-friendly move, but one chock-full of homecoming intrigue as well. Now that Mike Woodson’s extension has put a stop to Phil Jackson’s full-circle swan song, the return of a prodigal – and prodigiously talented – son seems not a bad consolation prize.

- Jim Cavan

"Now, go get me a legit point forward!"

GustavBahler wrote:
Some of it had to do with Lin wearing down but that was only part of it. Lin was plowing into the rim and getting stuffed, not because he lost a step, but because the other team knew that once he put his head down he wasn't going to plan b. As others have pointed out, he doesn't have a second gear in those situations.

Lin also telegraphs his passes which is why he turned the ball over as much as he did during the streak. When Jeremy stopped trying to be the first option, getting more shot attempts than Melo or Stat, his game came down to earth as well and so did his TOs.

Unless Lin becomes the first option again (doubtful) he won't be able to put up those great numbers. He won't get away with heavy TOs either, thats why Woodson started pulling him early. To Lin's credit he learned from that which is why I think Lin might not light up the scoreboard like he did before but he will become a smarter player.

I just wish folks would tamp down these comparisons, you're comparing him to future hall of famers. Let the kid learn the game but don't expect so much of him so soon. If we can find a PG who is playoff tested and is playing at a higher level than Lin was at the end of the season we should, even if it means starting him ahead of Lin.

Absolutely brilliant post

GustavBahler you are a baller.

knicks1248 wrote:

RonRon wrote:

misterearl wrote:AnubisADL - everyone knows Lebron and DWade can operate as solo acts. That is not news. However, this thesis offers that they need each other to make the team better... and to win.

Winning is the bottom line.

Carmelo and Amar'e have their limitations, which have been well documented. Big deal. They may simply need to find the areas where they can compliment the other... to make the team better. It could be so simple as playing with their heads up. Selfless.

That is on both ends. If Carmelo has flashed a determination to play defense, perhaps Amar'e will get the message and join the fun. They don't need to be "in sync" because this ain't coordinated swimming. They need to be attentive and more alert. Move without the ball and be ready for the pass.

Go fast when the opportunity presents itself. Lead by example. Dare the other guys to keep up.

It isn't just about Melo and Amare, we have to include Tyson Chandler, and even Lin.
The thing is, Melo is not an elite, in the same bracket as Wade and Lebron.
Neither are players that move well off the ball, with poor defense, and do not have the ability to penetrate without the handle, and speed/quickness to do so.
He does not possess the handle, penetration, versatility, defense, and physical skills (athleticism, speed/ quickness) as an elite has.
He is a high volume scorer, that likes to produce STATS, which are very misleading because it kills team chemistry and doesn't allow the team to get in rhythm when he goes ISo.
Whenever he touches the ball, our opponents are ready to get in rebounding position, and get ready for a fast break if he misses, because chances of him taking a bad % shot is very high. It doesn't help that he cannot post up, because Amare and Tyson Chandler takes up the space, as they will be left open if they are trying to spread the floor.
Their guys will cheat and leave them for the shot. One of them could be used as the player that sets the PnR, but one *usually Amare* will be used to spread the floor in which he has trouble getting his shot off. It hurts significantly, when neither has a post game, and don't even fight for post position.

Amare is no where near those guys, he is probably closer to the half stars like Josh Smith, with less overall skills, with only one skill (dunking).
He struggles playing at PF, because PF's match up with his speed/quickness, and athleticism, especially with Tyson Chandler's limitations on the offensive end.
He has played great for much of his career playing the "center" while he is quicker/faster and usually much more athletic than a Center.
The center usually has to give him the shot, if not, he can blow right by him and dunk.
While at PF, the opponents can keep up with him, while the Center is ready to help once he gets in the paint, because he only has one move, often forcing it in for a blocked shot or TO. Amare does try to move the ball, but with Melo going 1v1 so much, once he touches the ball, it means less shots for anyone on the team, including him.
He is been reduced from Alpha dog from the team, loss players that were all versatile, have good all round skills, following the game plans, and were about moving it to the open man.
Look at many games in which he has VERY little shot attempts because when he moves the ball, he won't get it back, leading to a Melo bad shot, or JR Smith bad shot, because they are the only ones that have the ability to create their own shots, with the lack of penetration and facilitating guards. His defense is a big weak link, while unable to defend his position, and requiring much help form Tyson Chandler, while when Chandler helps him or someone else, NO one, including Amare can cover for Tyson.

During Linsanity, the team used Lin's ability to penetrate to initiate the offense, and players that cut, were left open when Lin broke the opponents defense down, were rewarded with the basketball. We played without Amare, and Melo, with 2nd unit players, which are much less skilled than these "stars". They played good team defense and were all on the same page, moving the ball to whoever was open. There were much more screens set, aside from the PnR, other picks were used, cutters, movement off the ball, and plays used that used all players on the floor as an option/threat. They might not hit the shot but they all got back and played good defense, while giving much effort.
Our rotation usually included a 8 man rotation of, with mainly players that were all either good on defense or offense, but played a much more balanced game.

Lin/JR/ Baron Davis/ Bibby
Iman/ Fields/ Baron
Fields/ Novak
Novak/ Jeffries
Tyson Chandler/ Jeffries

If melo is not elite, then i don't know what elite is. He may shoot in volumes, but he also make scoring look so easy, he's a good rebounder, and solid passer ( when ever he decides) more clutch then bron and wade put together, and plays good defense(when ever he decides)And in all reality, no one can guard him one on one not even your bruce bowen 2.0..when he's off, it's usually him rushing shots, it has nothing to do with who's guarding him.