[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Lets Face it, Amare and Tyson are the only possible candidates for trades.
Author Thread
RonRon
Posts: 25531
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
5/26/2012  5:18 PM
With Woodson firing Joe Glass and joining the same representatives for Melo and JR Smith, it is an indication that Melo is not going anywhere.
Melo was a trade forced by Dolan and he will not admit that he made a bad move, so it is very unlikely to move Melo.
Lin is obviously staying with the $ and global attention for endorsements/ advertisements, regardless of what he can or can't do on the court.
If we keep this core together, Amare should be removed in the starting lineup and play the least minutes as possible with all 3 together.
However, with our cap situation, it just makes its tough to acquire real talent that we very much need to be a true contender.
During Linsanity, we won with good defense, good spacing, and the penetration Lin used to break down the defenses.

But we subtracted talent form our squad, using our 2nd unit players, and played beautiful basketball.
Our defense was the key, with everyone knowing their strengths, and played very hard each play.
Jared Jeffries played great defense at the PF/C, with Iman and Tyson Chandler, and Fields was playing SF not SG which is his natural position.
We never went ISO, never had a "star or all star", ran the PnR (moving the basketball with shooters/penetration) , and playing tough defense to win.
We simply meshed, while our "Stars" obviously did not. Most importantly, we had an identity and team chemistry, while our current starting lineup does not.

To create good shots and high % shots, good 3point shots, we need multiple players that have the ability to penetrate off the dribble, and post up players.
Mix that in with good spacing, good shooters, and good ball movement, then, we would have the ability to attack our opponents defense, breaking it down for high % shots.
Watch OKC and Spurs and you can see how they are able to be be one of the highest scoring teams in the league.
We have too much $ invested in all 3 of these players, while they do not mesh well together.
So breaking them apart, rather than starting off the season with the same 3, with a difference philosophy, identity, and create develop chemistry as early as possible.
Choosing between Amare or TC should be our next step in moving forward.

Amare and Tyson Chandler do not work well together with Melo, as their weaknesses were evident throughout the whole season.
Aside from the games when Woodson first took over, those 3 never showed any consistency playing together.
Amare can put up great numbers at center, while the loss of Tyson Chandler, would leave a great hole at our defensive side.
Even last year, he did well last year with Melo and this year, when Tyson Chandler was out, all 3 almost never showed any signs of being able to mesh together.
When Stat plays PF, he has shown the inability to be ineffective, with TOs, getting blocked, unable to get a good look, without the room needed, and can't even shoot well when a PF defends him. Stat has is advantages when he plays at Center, because centers generally, do not have the speed and quickness to defend Amare.
Like in Phoenix and our pre Melo Knicks, Amare needs a athletic 4, that can spread the floor, rebound, and have a great balanced game.
With Marion and Wilson Chandler, players that space the floor play good defense, and having a PG that has the ability to penetrate and facilitate are needed.
His value is at an all time low, while I think he is much better than his stats suggest, its because he just doesn't fit well with Tyson and Melo together.
Tyson and Amare do not have any post up games and both of them together take up the room for Melo to be an option to post up.
At PF, Amare has been inconsistent shooting, while teams will always dare him and Melo to shoot, while fighting off TC for rebounding position.
It doesn't help that Tyson is not a threat for a shot at all, while he shoots a good % at the FT line.

Tyson as DPOY, has the most value and has been our most consistent player throughout the season, with exception to his playoff performance.
He just had to do too much on the defensive end, constantly covering for our weak links of Amare, Lin, Fields, and Melo.
He is our only shot blocker, our only aggressive rebounder, while no one can help him, when he helps others, when our defense constantly gets broken down.
How can JJ and Novak(at the PF), play better than Amare, and Melo(vs Fields at SF) with Tyson?
Everyone played off the penetration that Lin created, vs standing and watching, as Amare and Melo constantly, look to do once they touch the ball.
We had great ball movement, without the egos to worry about with Amare and Melo, while everyone was on the same page.
So adding players like Odom, Ak47, even Kenyon Martin, Brandon Wright, Mahimi, to Jeffries would make our overall production much better.

So moving Amare while his value is at his lowest or Tyson Chandler, which is the key for our defensive improvements would instantly make Amare increase his value.
Moving Amare, we can easily find replacements that would fit much better, as Novak and JJ both showed they can do.
While the realistic deals for Amare, could be a combination of, players with bad contracts or expiring players in the final year of the contract.
Whatever, move it is we make, it is evident that our "big 3" is failed experiment, and we have to make a decision, as another losing season would only hurt their egos more
and bring their value even lower. Either play a faster pace with Amare at center, with the right players around him, or being a better defensive team without Amare, and the right pairings to TC to be the anchors of our defense. I hope, we all can admit to this, and realize it before the season starts. I do think Amare is tradeable and TC has good value
as DPOY. However, a Pau Gasol trade for Amare just is not happening. TC could bring good players but we will lose the ability to become a top defensive team. Just some realistic trades include, unloading some of our junk for some of them so we can have a MLE and LLE (TD and Jordan) and our better role players in (Novak, Fields, Jorts)

Dallas - Odom, Haywood, Brandon Wright or Mahimi, with a S&T Kidd or Terry

Golden State - Andris Biedrins, Richard Jefferson (combination of picks they have 2 1st rounders this year and 2 2nd rounders)

New Orleans - Ok4 and Ariza

Houston - combinations of Camby(S&T) or Dalembert(final year) or Scola, Kevin Martin (final year), and they have 2 PGs that would with Dragic(S&T) or Lowry)

Bobcats - Maggette (final year), Diop(final year), Augstine(RFA) or Matt Carroll(final year) and/or future picks with this years 31 pick (the 1st 2nd round pick)

Washington - Rashard Lewis(final year) and picks they own 2 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders

Lakers - Metta World Peace, Jordan Hill, Sessions, Steve Blake, and Josh McRoberts

Bucks - Udrih (final year), Gooden, Luc Mbah a Moute or Dunleavey *Novak goes back for them*

Toronto - Calderon(final year), Amir Johnson, Kleiza

Kings - Salmons, Garcia(team option so he is a expiring), Tyreke Evans or Jason Thompson or Donte Green and Terrence Williams

Detroit - has many combination of bad contracts with Ben Gordon or Charlie Villanueva, with some decent role players and expirings in Prince, Stuckey, Jonas Jerebko, Maxiell,
Will Bynum, Austin Daye

AUTOADVERT
IrishKnickFan
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2012
Member: #4171

5/26/2012  5:40 PM
Well Amare really has no value unless we eat the whole contract and tyson was really the anchor of this team. I mean he was sick in the playoffs so i cant blame him too much. The melo trade so far hasnt worked out i still feel he should have waited for FA and let us keep those assets so we could have gotten a paul or howard
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

5/26/2012  6:39 PM
Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...
chewy
Posts: 20185
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/4/2011
Member: #3689

5/26/2012  7:58 PM
I heard Chris Brouusand say we offered Amare to GS and they said Hell No. I don't know when but we did so some time this year.
John Starks is the greatest
RonRon
Posts: 25531
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
5/26/2012  8:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/26/2012  8:55 PM
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...


did we beat an elite team? The best teams we beat during that stretch include, Clippers, Philly, Orlando with a broken DH, and Pacers twice.
These teams are mediocre at best, while they can still improve.
Do you seriously believe we can compete with the top tier elite contenders in a 7 game series?
There is little change we can do when all 3 players make those salaries and with us keeping Lin for sure.

KG for Tyson Chandler, would help the inabilities of a non scoring threat, while getting back a good defender.
KG can be used to spread the floor, while being an excellent help defender, with an ability to post up for the mid range jumper.
They have some decent picks this year in their draft.

We are no where close enough to compete with the elites and the playoff contenders in teams like

Miami, Bulls(healthy), OKC, Spurs, Lakers, Memphis

Teams we might have to worry about climbing the ladder include, if not next year, in another 2-3 years.

T Wolves, Bobcats, Philly, Pacers, Cleveland, Denver, Bucks

The more inconsistency we show, the more we lose, the values of our "stars" will only go down...
We have to find a lineup that works, we have been exposed for the longest.

callmened
Posts: 24448
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/26/2012
Member: #4234

5/26/2012  9:46 PM
STAT is not going anywhere...not to the bench or to another team! hes regressed but were stuck with him for the next 3 yrs
Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
JohnStarksFan
Posts: 20550
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/4/2012
Member: #4220

5/27/2012  12:54 AM
callmened wrote:STAT is not going anywhere...not to the bench or to another team! hes regressed but were stuck with him for the next 3 yrs

Truth. And I wish yall would stop with the crazy trade threads. I'll throw my own head up my ass if any of the big 3 gets traded, but until then, would yall take your heads out of yours? It's just not productive conversation and I'm starting to feel bad for you guys.

ramtour420
Posts: 26284
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 3/19/2007
Member: #1388
Russian Federation
5/27/2012  1:05 AM
JohnStarksFan wrote:
callmened wrote:STAT is not going anywhere...not to the bench or to another team! hes regressed but were stuck with him for the next 3 yrs

Truth. And I wish yall would stop with the crazy trade threads. I'll throw my own head up my ass if any of the big 3 gets traded, but until then, would yall take your heads out of yours? It's just not productive conversation and I'm starting to feel bad for you guys.

+1, No way big 4 are getting traded. This offseason Amare needs to rediscover his free-throw corner shot and Chandler to develop a hook or the "Tim Dunkan" bankshot.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
CashMoney
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/15/2011
Member: #3374
USA
5/27/2012  11:22 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2012  11:27 AM
JohnStarksFan wrote:
callmened wrote:STAT is not going anywhere...not to the bench or to another team! hes regressed but were stuck with him for the next 3 yrs

Truth. And I wish yall would stop with the crazy trade threads. I'll throw my own head up my ass if any of the big 3 gets traded, but until then, would yall take your heads out of yours? It's just not productive conversation and I'm starting to feel bad for you guys.

+2 trade threads are getting ridiculous. You'd think that STAT is washed up and can't play at all according to some on this board. How about we get a full traning camp and a normal season with our boys and see what happens? We get whooped by the heat without our full sqaud and it's blow up the team again?

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
callmened
Posts: 24448
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 5/26/2012
Member: #4234

5/27/2012  11:26 AM
Im very very close to throwin in the towel with stat..he looked horrible...but i think his back was hurt and he was grieving. After the time off he looked alot better...lets hope hes not washed up

But any notion of him or any of the big 3 getting traded is stupid.

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

5/27/2012  12:02 PM
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...

You have started to sound like Rudy Guiliani -- Remember when Biden told him no matter what you ask the guy you get a noun a verb and 9/11, well no matter what people post you seem to come up with a verb a woody and 18-6.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
IrishKnickFan
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2012
Member: #4171

5/27/2012  12:20 PM
loweyecue wrote:
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...

You have started to sound like Rudy Guiliani -- Remember when Biden told him no matter what you ask the guy you get a noun a verb and 9/11, well no matter what people post you seem to come up with a verb a woody and 18-6.

Good Point i mean 18-6 is great and all but i didnt like the the 1-4 our record was in the first round
SupremeCommander
Posts: 34058
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127

5/27/2012  12:34 PM
chewy wrote:I heard Chris Brouusand say we offered Amare to GS and they said Hell No. I don't know when but we did so some time this year.

I don't believe that for one minute. They traded a stud for a big on the IR. The only way GS said no IF Amar'e was actually offered was if the Knicks asked for their pick this year. I find it hard to believe GS would have said no to Amar'e for Ellis and change.

But all my 'ifs' aren't worth much because Broussard is full of ****

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
5/27/2012  1:11 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
chewy wrote:I heard Chris Brouusand say we offered Amare to GS and they said Hell No. I don't know when but we did so some time this year.

I don't believe that for one minute. They traded a stud for a big on the IR. The only way GS said no IF Amar'e was actually offered was if the Knicks asked for their pick this year. I find it hard to believe GS would have said no to Amar'e for Ellis and change.

But all my 'ifs' aren't worth much because Broussard is full of ****

Totally agree about Broussard.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
5/27/2012  1:35 PM
loweyecue wrote:
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...

You have started to sound like Rudy Guiliani -- Remember when Biden told him no matter what you ask the guy you get a noun a verb and 9/11, well no matter what people post you seem to come up with a verb a woody and 18-6.

From now on just post moving on from, long losing streaks, 18-24, or 121-167.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

5/27/2012  2:08 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2012  2:20 PM
loweyecue wrote:
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...

You have started to sound like Rudy Guiliani -- Remember when Biden told him no matter what you ask the guy you get a noun a verb and 9/11, well no matter what people post you seem to come up with a verb a woody and 18-6.

It's the only thing that seems to quell the Linsanity crew...You included...RonRon want to make personnel moves off Linsanity...Seems like u guys needs to be reminded what happened after Linsanity time and time again...

IrishKnickFan
Posts: 23223
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2012
Member: #4171

5/27/2012  4:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2012  4:01 PM
holfresh wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...

You have started to sound like Rudy Guiliani -- Remember when Biden told him no matter what you ask the guy you get a noun a verb and 9/11, well no matter what people post you seem to come up with a verb a woody and 18-6.

It's the only thing that seems to quell the Linsanity crew...You included...RonRon want to make personnel moves off Linsanity...Seems like u guys needs to be reminded what happened after Linsanity time and time again...

I dont think he is trying to hold onto the Linsanity he is stating valid points. the 18-6 was great but all that matter is the playoffs. yes Melo had a great second half but once again his playoff record is putrid. So he was making a good point that the playoff record is what matters most
JohnStarksFan
Posts: 20550
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/4/2012
Member: #4220

5/27/2012  4:38 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote: So he was making a good point that the playoff record is what matters most

True, but you can't judge this squad too much with this playoff performance. We all know the Heat are a beast unseen before in the NBA, and the Bockers were without Lin, lost Shump, had Chandler battling the flu, had a beat up Jeffries, lost Davis, and lost Amare for a game. All in all to pull out one win was a miracle given the circumstances. I'm still all in for next season. Gonna keep the faith.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
5/27/2012  4:42 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
holfresh wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...

You have started to sound like Rudy Guiliani -- Remember when Biden told him no matter what you ask the guy you get a noun a verb and 9/11, well no matter what people post you seem to come up with a verb a woody and 18-6.

It's the only thing that seems to quell the Linsanity crew...You included...RonRon want to make personnel moves off Linsanity...Seems like u guys needs to be reminded what happened after Linsanity time and time again...

I dont think he is trying to hold onto the Linsanity he is stating valid points. the 18-6 was great but all that matter is the playoffs. yes Melo had a great second half but once again his playoff record is putrid. So he was making a good point that the playoff record is what matters most
Are you referring to RonRon's points?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

5/27/2012  4:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/27/2012  5:08 PM
IrishKnickFan wrote:
holfresh wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
holfresh wrote:Did I miss something??,,End of the year we ran off a 18-6 record after the coaching change...Amare and Tyson aren't going anywhere until they are given a chance to work...This will be our stating frontline for the next year...Saddle up boys, look elsewhere for changes...

You have started to sound like Rudy Guiliani -- Remember when Biden told him no matter what you ask the guy you get a noun a verb and 9/11, well no matter what people post you seem to come up with a verb a woody and 18-6.

It's the only thing that seems to quell the Linsanity crew...You included...RonRon want to make personnel moves off Linsanity...Seems like u guys needs to be reminded what happened after Linsanity time and time again...

I dont think he is trying to hold onto the Linsanity he is stating valid points. the 18-6 was great but all that matter is the playoffs. yes Melo had a great second half but once again his playoff record is putrid. So he was making a good point that the playoff record is what matters most

So you are saying it's reasonable to hold Melo accountable for Chandler being sick, Amare extended injuries, Lin's injury, Shump's injury, Jeffries injury and the team's overall playoff performance against the Heat??

I also don't agree with those being good points...

Lets Face it, Amare and Tyson are the only possible candidates for trades.

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy