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Allan Houston is a Tru Knick.
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TRU
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3/9/2004  6:02 AM
Now, you guys know I don't start threads. But, let's not make the same mistake with Houston as we made with Ewing.

I say we start appreciating this dude now, instead of after he's released in the expansion draft, or after his knees force him to retire, or after he get so fed up with the New York Media that he demands a trade.

I say we put him among the ranks of the classic Knicks of his generation-- Oakley, Starks, Ewing and the rest. This is a guy that understands what it takes to play in New York, despite coming from Tenessee, of all places.

He doesn't complain about being boed, or about playing hurt.

He didn't bitch about having to shoulder the entire scoring load last year to the point where he needed off-season surjury to mend his aging knees.

He doesn't even complain about all the turnover the knicks have been forced to endure-- even though he is a veteran who's scored close to 15 thousand points in this league and deserves to be on a team with legitimate championship aspirations.

Unlike most of these NBA players, he has never slacked off in giving us effort, despite his bloated contract, despite having his best friend and loyal, long-time knick traded away, and despite having a very limited, one-dimensinal game.

He has played over 60 playoff games in orange and blue. He's hit big shots to win games in both the regular season and the playoffs. He's taken us to conference championships and the finals. He's given us 50 point performances.

This guy is truly what New York is about. Suckin' it up, and doing what's necessary to deal with the unfortunate pressures that make this city too tough for others to handle.

Allan Houston is tough. Show his some respect.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
AUTOADVERT
simrud
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3/9/2004  6:13 AM
A true Knick plays D, rebounds, passes, and drives to the basket once in a while. A true Knick is a blue collar worker, not an overpaid one dimensonal shooter.

That said, Houston is a good player. If it was not for his ludicrous contract, I'd probably like him a lot. I respect him for what his is, an outside threat. This team needs him badly. Like Iseah said Steph and Houston are the core.

I'm sorry, but I just can't put Houston's name even in the same paragraph as Ewing. That is a damn disgrace to compare this guy to Ewing. This 2guard (I refuse to mention his name next to Ewing's) could not carry Ewing jock in the best game of his life.

Oak, Starks, they played so much harder. Hell Mason played harder. Cmon man, don't offend them by putting Houston in the same sentecne with them.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
TRU
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3/9/2004  6:34 AM
Posted by simrud:

A true Knick plays D, rebounds, passes, and drives to the basket once in a while. A true Knick is a blue collar worker, not an overpaid one dimensonal shooter.

That said, Houston is a good player. If it was not for his ludicrous contract, I'd probably like him a lot. I respect him for what his is, an outside threat. This team needs him badly. Like Iseah said Steph and Houston are the core.

I'm sorry, but I just can't put Houston's name even in the same paragraph as Ewing. That is a damn disgrace to compare this guy to Ewing. This 2guard (I refuse to mention his name next to Ewing's) could not carry Ewing jock in the best game of his life.

Oak, Starks, they played so much harder. Hell Mason played harder. Cmon man, don't offend them by putting Houston in the same sentecne with them.

Clyde never rebounded. Neither did Starks. Starks shot us out of GAME SEVEN OF THE FINALS. Oakley threw football-pass turnovers in every game, and if he wasn't a one dimensional player, I don't know what is. I'm not trying to disrespect these hallowed memebers of the "Knick Hall of Fame," but you have to acknowledge the validity of my point-- all players are flawed. Some more than others. To say that one particular stat is indicative of total "effort" is just inaccurate.

Allan Houston is one of only 3 knicks to be an Allstar in almost TEN YEARS. How can you say that Allan Houston doesn't play hard? Because he doesn't get into fights? Because he isn't demonstrative on the court? You think that you just wake up and shoot the ball like he does? It takes hours and hours and hours of hard work to perform like he does. And before this year, he'd been one of the most durable players in the league. Even this year, coming back from knee surjury he's averaging 33.9 minutes per game.

Not to mention he's perennially the best free-throw shooter in the league. He's a gold medalist.. he even participated in the Slam Dunk contest once, way back then.

C'mon Sim. You're going to have to do better than the tired old "overpaid" and "he doesn't play hard" arguements to convince me. The stats don't lie. You can't average over 20 ppg in the playoffs in the NBA and not "play hard". Rediculous.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
playa2
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3/9/2004  7:24 AM
OUCH!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
BrilliantTruth
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3/9/2004  7:33 AM
Speaking of which....... Is there even a picture of him in the dunk contest? I've never seen one.
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OminousEther
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3/9/2004  8:57 AM
Posted by TRU:
Posted by simrud:

A true Knick plays D, rebounds, passes, and drives to the basket once in a while. A true Knick is a blue collar worker, not an overpaid one dimensonal shooter.

That said, Houston is a good player. If it was not for his ludicrous contract, I'd probably like him a lot. I respect him for what his is, an outside threat. This team needs him badly. Like Iseah said Steph and Houston are the core.

I'm sorry, but I just can't put Houston's name even in the same paragraph as Ewing. That is a damn disgrace to compare this guy to Ewing. This 2guard (I refuse to mention his name next to Ewing's) could not carry Ewing jock in the best game of his life.

Oak, Starks, they played so much harder. Hell Mason played harder. Cmon man, don't offend them by putting Houston in the same sentecne with them.

Clyde never rebounded. Neither did Starks. Starks shot us out of GAME SEVEN OF THE FINALS. Oakley threw football-pass turnovers in every game, and if he wasn't a one dimensional player, I don't know what is. I'm not trying to disrespect these hallowed memebers of the "Knick Hall of Fame," but you have to acknowledge the validity of my point-- all players are flawed. Some more than others. To say that one particular stat is indicative of total "effort" is just inaccurate.

Allan Houston is one of only 3 knicks to be an Allstar in almost TEN YEARS. How can you say that Allan Houston doesn't play hard? Because he doesn't get into fights? Because he isn't demonstrative on the court? You think that you just wake up and shoot the ball like he does? It takes hours and hours and hours of hard work to perform like he does. And before this year, he'd been one of the most durable players in the league. Even this year, coming back from knee surjury he's averaging 33.9 minutes per game.

Not to mention he's perennially the best free-throw shooter in the league. He's a gold medalist.. he even participated in the Slam Dunk contest once, way back then.

C'mon Sim. You're going to have to do better than the tired old "overpaid" and "he doesn't play hard" arguements to convince me. The stats don't lie. You can't average over 20 ppg in the playoffs in the NBA and not "play hard". Rediculous.

Great rebuttle!
OasisBU
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3/9/2004  9:21 AM
I am with you Tru....Houston is one of my all time favorites - like any player he isn't perfect, but he is a Knick and wears the jersey with pride.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
fishmike
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3/9/2004  10:33 AM
if you think Houston doesnt play hard you have never been to the garden and actually seen him play. If we had Houston 10 years ago instead of Starks the Knicks would have a banner hanging in the Garden.

Whether or not the Knick can make a title run strongly depends on Houston's knee the next 5 years. If he can play 30-35 minutes and we can get a decent bigman we have a shot. Houston makes it easy for Marbury to penetrate, because if you cheat off Allan he will drop 40 on you.

If Houston's "one dimension" is being one of the league's best offensive players and shooter we need more one dimensional players like that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TRU
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3/9/2004  10:37 AM
Posted by fishmike:

If we had Houston 10 years ago instead of Starks the Knicks would have a banner hanging in the Garden.

If Houston's "one dimension" is being one of the league's best offensive players and shooter we need more one dimensional players like that.

Wow. That first point was a doozy.

[Edited by - TRU on 03/09/2004 10:38:11]
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
jazz74
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3/9/2004  11:23 AM
houston has always been one of my favorite knicks. he does give his all. he is not as athletic or flashy as bryant, allen, mcgrady or iverson but he is still on the list as the top ten sg in the league. he is the best shooter in the league ( yes, i think better than peja and ray allen). it amazes me that people actually HATE him. and these are knick fans. he has done so much to help us win since he has been here that i lost count. he plays hurt and does'nt complain but people are calling him soft. if you want to see soft go over across the canadian border and you will see the picture definition of soft. he scored two to two with probably the best two guards in history ( jordan, iverson, bryant, reggie miller, etc.). he also scored against great defenders like bowen, marjle, and jordan. never talked but let his game do the talking. i never forgot in the 99 playoff, steve smith was running his mouth to houston and houston did not say a word. just lit him up for 30 points and swept his sorry team right out of the playoffs. or last year kobe came into the garden arrogantly scoring 40 points against the knicks. houston did not say a word and quietly went into the staple center two weeks later and dropped 53 points while the great "defensive stopper" bryant could do nothing but watch the dismanteling. houston is good and he will always be my top three knick of all-time ( behind ewing and i still love starks). he is underappreciated because layzie gave him a huge contract. very unfair to criticize him for another man's goof. he did not ask for that much but if layzie is giving out money, why not take it? i am with you, tru.
knixphan
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3/9/2004  11:29 AM
Gotta defend Allan on this one - If I were offered that contract, I'd take the 100 mil too, (I dare anyone to say they wouldn't)...

Allan is a great player, not perfect, but he's as good a sportsman as we'll see in this decade, I put him in Jordan's league on that issue. You really can't hate Allan. He's too nice. And he's dropped fifty, while still being nice - that's unheard of in the NBA.

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bernard
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3/9/2004  11:47 AM
Houston's offensive game is unfairly criticized as one dimensional. And he's unfairly called "soft" because he doesn't snarl or have tatoos. Dude's played through a lot of injuries and has come through plenty in the clutch. He's not soft.

Yes, his offense is all based on his great shot, but there have been lots of one dimensional shooters a la Steve Kerr who shoot just as well as Allan but don't have 1/10th the game Allan has.

Allan's great off the pass like the classic shooters. But, he's also great one-on-one on the wing where he can create his own shot and hit a high %, whether it's just jab stepping and rising, jab stepping, one or two dribbles and rising, or going all the way to the basket (he does it more than folks give him credit for). Finally, he's tough in the post. Probably our most efficient post-up player.

True, defense is sub par. As is rebounding (but who judges 2 guards on rebounding?) End of the day, H20 has been a great Knick who's had a lot of success. He's not in Patrick's class, nor does he belong up there with the '69 and '73 champs, but he's right up there with all other Knicks in terms of talent and contribution to the team.

Great thread, Tru. He does deserve more credit.
fishmike
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3/9/2004  12:00 PM
he may be a nice guy, but he also has a legit killer instinct and he take big shots. Obviously he's overpaid, and the truth is he's been wasted here for the last 3 years. Now he will get a chance to shine again. He's a clutch shooter and every team thats won a title has always had a guy that can take those big shots down the stretch. When Houston hit that big 3 against Dallas in that 20 point comeback (we lost) it just reminded me how much he's been wasting here.

Its a new game now because we justs might have the best PG in the NBA when it comes to breaking down his man and getting to the basket. We have some athletic guys that can run and follow him to the hole and of course we have the old gunslinger waiting out on the perimeter... daring the defense to leave him.

[Edited by - fishmike on 03/09/2004 12:02:12]
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EZV32
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3/9/2004  12:10 PM
Speaking of which....... Is there even a picture of him in the dunk contest? I've never seen one.

I dont have a pic, but a memory of it. One of the dunks he did is stil to this day one of the funniest/lamest Ive ever seen. He tossed the ball in the air bounced it off his head and dunked it. And no, it wasnt half as cool as it sounds. Gotta love him though.
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jazz74
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3/9/2004  12:31 PM
Posted by fishmike:

he may be a nice guy, but he also has a legit killer instinct and he take big shots. Obviously he's overpaid, and the truth is he's been wasted here for the last 3 years. Now he will get a chance to shine again. He's a clutch shooter and every team thats won a title has always had a guy that can take those big shots down the stretch. When Houston hit that big 3 against Dallas in that 20 point comeback (we lost) it just reminded me how much he's been wasting here.

Its a new game now because we justs might have the best PG in the NBA when it comes to breaking down his man and getting to the basket. We have some athletic guys that can run and follow him to the hole and of course we have the old gunslinger waiting out on the perimeter... daring the defense to leave him.

[Edited by - fishmike on 03/09/2004 12:02:12]

great post, mike. houston has that killer instinct that good players have. how many games in the playoffs has houston took over in the final quarter? he is amazing to watch when he is hot. like a stone cold assassin. but he does'nt have to go around and let everyone know it. he kind of reminds me of mark price. even though price was a point guard he was a great shooter and he took over in the 4th quarter. he did not say anything but in the 4th quarter, you could see in his eyes that he is going to take matter in his own hands. except when he sees number 23. that is another story.
Nalod
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3/9/2004  12:31 PM
Allan does not complain, works hard, is a good guy , Etc etc, and he gets paid incredible money.

Ewing was an egotistical ass and his performance in seattle and Orlando proved him wrong. He should have sucked it up and stayed, or retired with dignity. Instead he choose to take the money and diminish. History will be kind to him those last two seasons. Ewing Refused to allow his role to diminish at all, and all but forced his hand every single time to hold the team hostage for his own purpose. He was a stat hog and did not allow anybody to get on his turf.

Thats the other side. He was a true warrior in every sense and one of the hardest workers on the league. His shortfalls never allowed Don Nelson to reconfigure the team to best utilize its talents, which ment less of the ball going in to ewing, whom rarely passed, nor when rebounding did not want the team to run ahead of him, thus reducing his touches.

Don't get me wrong, I love the dude, but he also screwed us a few times and cost us big time.

Allan ain't going no where with that contract. Bobcats are not gonna take him, nor does he have any trade value. Allan is great, a cool guy and when healthy beautiful to watch his sound fundamental footwork and shooting posture.
technomaster
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3/9/2004  1:04 PM
I'm of the opinion that as a Knick, Houston has been among the top players to wear the uniform. His career performance in the playoffs speaks for itself-- beyond the numbers, he hit more than his fair share of shots in critical moments.

Clearly, injuries to key plays have hurt the Knicks badly over the last 3 seasons, including this one. The blame for lack of playoff performances goes beyond what Houston has done for the team.

As far as all-around game, we all wish Houston was a more rounded player. His rebound/assist/steal numbers are among the worst for a SG that plays as much as he does. His defense IMHO is not poor, it's merely average at this stage, but coming to a Knick team of the Riley era that prided itself on defense, he was comparatively sub-par. Now he's merely par. :) Besides, shooters need to save their arms so they can hit big shots in the end.

Houston has a nice guy personality--- he doesn't have intimidating, ****y body language-- he lulls defenders to think that he's not into it then attacks. Some might say that players like Starks/Sprewell were just wasting their energy. Clyde Frazier probably would agree--- but then he'd say they're catalysts...

Who can argue with Houston for taking his big contract, right? With big contracts come big expectations... but no one is going to say sorry, I'm not worth $100 million...

Over the past 10 years, there have been 5 Knick all-stars, by my count. Ewing, Oakley, Starks, Sprewell, and Houston.
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
EWING33BXNY
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3/9/2004  1:18 PM
I just registered so this is my first post to this forum. I agree with TRU 100%. Allan is a very underappreciated player in this league and especially in NEW YORK!!! He may not do all the crowd-pleasing things but one thing for sure is Houston knows how to play basketball. We as Knick fans must see how hard he plays and quietly rack up the numbers. The only reason no one complained about Reggie Miller being one dimensional is because his wallet is much lighter than Houston's.
gunsnewing
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3/9/2004  1:32 PM
Houston is 6'6''

Clyde 6'4''
Starks 6'3''

Allan should average at least 4rebs...nough said.
simrud
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3/9/2004  1:33 PM
Once again Houston is solid, but not even close to Ewing. How can you even critisize Ewing? He gave his all to the franchise. And Houston is no way a top 10 SG in the league.
Tmac
Kobe
Carter
Iverson
Redd
Allan
Finley
Pierce
Stojakovich
Lebron
And thats just of the top of my head. You can make an agrument that at their respective price tags Mobley, Kittles, Hamilton and the like are more valuable.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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