http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/169466p-148003c.html

Isiah's plans worth a shot


People get off Isiah Thomas pretty fast now, which means fast even for New York. He came out of the blocks with as much early speed as any New York sports executive you want to talk about, he got the city excited about New York again, he brought back Stephon Marbury, a child of the city, to run the game at the Garden and Lenny Wilkens to coach it. Now the Knicks have a bad couple of weeks. The fans decide they don't like the trade that sent Keith Van Horn away nearly as much as they liked the one for Marbury. So the honeymoon ends as easily as the Knicks turn the ball over these days.
If you play this all the way out, Van Horn would have changed every bad thing that's happened lately. It makes him a lot more than he was here. It happens to be Isiah Thomas who is trying to change everything at the Garden, back to what it used to be. He got the Knicks back into play. They're not out of play because they've lost six in a row. They're not even out of play because the last six games under Wilkens look a lot like the last six games before Don Chaney left.

Knicks fans have been down too long to become front-runners this quickly. Thomas couldn't possibly have gotten this dumb between Marbury and Tim Thomas.

"If everything we're doing is wrong now because we didn't go to New Orleans and win, we didn't go to Dallas and win, we didn't win in Sacramento and Denver and those other places, then everything's gone wrong for a lot of teams from the East," Thomas said yesterday.

A little over a week ago, people started chanting Van Horn's name at the Garden. Oh. First the Garden didn't want Van Horn because the Knicks traded Latrell Sprewell to get him. All of a sudden, after a handful of losses, they loved a new Knick like he was an old Knick. And everywhere, people wondered if Thomas should have left well enough alone, at least for this season, and made his run with the Knicks team that looked like it was starting to make a run.

"Tim Thomas is going to be a good player here," Thomas said. "He's a real small forward, which means he balances out our team. By balancing out our team, I believe he makes us a better team, and more athletic. And what I've been trying to do since the day I got here is make us a better, more athletic team. I've made the moves I've made to try to get us into the playoffs this year, and to also make us better for years to come. And as I sit here today, we're in the No. 6 spot in the conference, with a chance on March 1 to play meaningful games."

Thomas paused and said, "If somebody had told our fans two months ago that every game their team played from March 1 until the end of the season was going to matter, I believe they would have jumped on that."

The Knicks did fine for a while without Allan Houston, their best shooter, and even seemed ready to make a run at a .500 record. Then the absence of Houston caught up with them, the way it would with the high scorer on any team. This isn't making excuses. It is just the way things are in the NBA.

"I'll turn on the television and hear people say, 'Oh, the 76ers did this without Allen Iverson,' " Thomas said. "Or 'The Raptors did this without Vince Carter.' And I would think to myself, my guys don't have their best shooter."

The Knicks got going good under Wilkens and Stephon Marbury and everybody got giddy, saying it was going to be 1999 all over again, that the Knicks were going all the way to the conference finals, no matter what playoff seed they had. As if this Knicks team had suddenly turned into one that had Houston, Sprewell, Marcus Camby playing the best ball of his career, Kurt Thomas, Larry Johnson. And, oh by the way, Patrick Ewing still hanging around.

"Listen," Thomas said, "it would have been a nice Cinderella story, but we weren't going from dead in the water to the NBA Finals."

"If we're healthy the rest of the way," he said, "I think we're going to make the playoffs, and be a real tough out once we do."

So the Knicks need to play now. They've got 21 games to become a real team, and give their fans more season than they ever thought they could have. And you want to know what that season is? Going up against Detroit or Jersey or Indiana in the first round of the playoffs, getting one of the first two games on the road, coming back to the Garden 1-1 for the first playoff game of any kind there in two years. Taking that kind of big swing.

"Sometimes in sports it's not the worst thing in the world to get knocked back a little, or get knocked down," Thomas said yesterday. "Sometimes if you get knocked on your --- and you get back up, that builds the kind of resolve good teams are supposed to have. And gives those teams something to draw on when you really get knocked back, or knocked down, in a short playoff series."

Before Thomas got to town, you wondered if the Knicks would ever get up. You want to rethink everything if the Knicks don't make the playoffs, fine with me. But you've got to hang with him longer than this.

Man... that's mor ethan a few quotes from Zeke.

alright.

I agree with you on one thing, it's for the long haul.

I disagree with you on one thing, TT is gonna be a good player here. 7yrs in the league. WYSIWYG. no more. 11pts a game in his rookie yr and lazy def. less than 12pts a game for his career and a lousy def.

bad attitude, no effort. check some forums to read buck fans reaction. No one misses him.

Tell me we got him for the long haul, for flexibility, and I'll be with you.

tell me you still hope this guy gonna be a star...

Maybe this summer IT will make a great trade and make us think he made some good choices. Maybe for the long haul we'll be better. He just misfired once.

thing that happens.

There's no way that TT has the heart of Paul O'neil but I think the pressure of NY will be perfect for him and he's already showing that. I think he will ultimately be a better offensive player than KVH in NY. I just hope his defense and rebounding improves. Both him and Nazr look lost on defense. It's up to the coaching staff to get them to play better defense.

We play some bad east teams this month so beating them should really build their confidence and help them jell. Then once we play the good teams we'll win or at the very least put up a good fight.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 03/02/2004 11:18:55]

Posted by jazz74:

Posted by martin:

I was trying to think if I could equate Tim Thomas and his move to the Knicks and the Paul Oneil move to the Yankees. Paul was only an average player with moderate production with the Reds before he came to the Yankees. And he came over at the age of 30. 30! and then started to really produce.

Paul came with a whole bunch of intensity so maybe it's not a fair or adequate comparison. But it's possible.

yeah but martin, basketball is much different than baseball. baseball, you can have a prime season well into your thirties. the wear and tear is less than running up and down and jumping for a good 35 minutes a game. one of the best player in baseball is around frigging 40! that could never happen in the nba. jabbar did well when he turned 40 as well as parrish but their best season were far behind him. with tim thomas i think he has two years to show what he can do. he is a small forward who uses athleticism to get the job done. that won't last long. the wear and tear will get to him as well as all athletic players at around 30. maybe he will turn it up but do not expect him a 20ppg scorer or even 18ppg.

I was thinking about a later turnaround in his respective sport rather than just a productive old person. But true, in baseball you can be dominant for much longer, but I would also submit basketball players are holding on for longer too. Stockton, Malone, Payton. I can't think of anyone else.

Posted by BRIGGS:

you gotta be kidding me. its a farce to think we acquired Marbury and spent 100of mm of dollars without the goal of being a player in the VERY VERY weak east.

he messed up trading KVH--we were going well--heck if we MADE no moves no marbury nothing--we would LIKELY still be close to the 6th seed!

a team of
Mutumbo
Thomas
KVH
H2O or Andersen
Ward will still win what we have already--heck maybe better! plus we would have a big time lottery pick in case we didnt!

now we have a big time C in Nazr a real SF in TT who happened to play PF at Milwaukee--he is NOT a true SF

and the cry is wait for the future--what future?? we dont have picks and we have locked in contracts this is the team!

I think the cry for wait is more of a wait for Houston to get healthy, for coach to seattle on a rotation and for a full training camp to happen. Time. The guys need some time to gel. Remember, the Knicks were 2-5 out of the gate. It just takes time.

Here is some future: FWill, DerMarr, Marbury, Sweets, Nzar.

We are locked into some contracts, but that's what you get when you trade away Spoon, Eisley, Ward. And after 2 years Penny, Moochie, Deke come off the books.

Again, the trade was to upgrade the 5 without sacrificing too much elsewhere. TT for KVH is a statistical wash, save for rebounding, which you supposedly make up by replacing Doleac with Nazr. Unfortunately, Nazr is not as good as Doleac right now. Zeke knew TT wasn't as good as KVH, but he figured TT would fit better into a Marbury-run offense, and the ensuing "exciting" basketball would more than make up for the loss of KVH. And maybe time will prove him right. Right now, Zeke's got to be smarting about Nazr, and not getting Doleac back. TT has been fair, as should be expected. Again, the point of the trade was to get a competitive young C on the team. Well, at least Nazr's young.

But, really, if TT and Nazr don't show marked improvement by summer, they will both be on the block. Isiah doesn't seem to be very patient with the "time to gel" thing. Don't expect this lineup to be the 04-05 training camp lineup.

First of KVH is a BETTER player than Tim Thomas--you can rationalize it anyway you want, but KVH is BETTER. For Isiah Thomas to come out and say we wouldnt have done the trade if we didnt get NAZR---feeds my point. So we gave up the best player in the deal+ the deal becomes whether NAZR is going to make the team better at the 5. OK fine then PUT him at 5 LEAVE HIm at 5 for 35 minutes every game and shut up. Lenny Wilkens has thought so highly of NAZR that he started everyone and his mother other than NAZR---if this was the plan they HAVE to play NAZR 35 minutes.

And guess what--if TT and Nazr arent the answers--the TRADE market wont be very big for those guys anyway--what do you expect back---++++ it's NOT a way to build a team--you cant build a team that has a carousel for a roster.

last point--all this BS about patience is crp. We spent 150MM $ to win NOW --trading for marbury taking all that cash on and giving up literally 4 draft picks was a WIN NOW deal.

I think isiah saw his name in bright lights big city again and wanted to keep it up there and continue to deal right and up to the point James Dolan shot down the Malik Rose trade for KT.

I can argue against the Marbury trade and there are certainly arguements for it including 4 surgeries on Marburys ankles. I believe we needed to rebuild the team and focus that rebuilding around the frontline and let Williams develop because of his age.

But the Knicks are about band aids superfluous actions and smoke and mirrors

Posted by gunsnewing:

I lost hope in the draft because the Knicks will never play players with potential. Plus what are the chances that a 14-20th pick will pan out? The chances are slim to none. How did John Wallace do? He was the 18th pick in the 96 draft which was really deep. Sure there's always guys like Boozer, Spree, Van Exel. At least we still have our second round pick, the 41st pick.

Over the past 7-10 years the Knicks didn't do too well in the draft, but those were heaving winning years. But how about Sweets and FWill? Those are exactly 2 guys that the Knicks drafted - I know, FWill came in the trade - and have come along very nicely. PGs late a long time to develop, and at the 2 year mark I would give Frank a thumbs up. Whether he will become part of the larger picture now that Marbury is on board is another story. Boozer didn't explode until his second season and it sure helps having the big Z and LeBron drawing the defense; Sweets is sure to make an impact (maybe not like Booze is doing now) and contribute.