the knicks were 37-45 thats a .450 win percentage. This year we are at .433 What that tells me is that we made a HUGE mistake by trading Spree. Thank You Dolan for not knowing anything about basketball. Steph, H20 and spree would've been amazing together! We would be in the hunt for the 4th seed. We could've let Spree walk if we felt he was getting old. Anyway with that said...Let's go TT!! let's try to grab at least 7rebs tonight!!

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 02/29/2004 15:53:12]

Hmm... obviously the big mistake was firing Layden & Chaney.

The real reason it was a mistake to trade Spree is that his contract was one year shorter than KVH's, which would have made his expiring contract valuable as a trading chip next year. But the difference between a winning % of .433 and .450 is meaningless.

The larger issue is that Spree is entering his mid-30s, and the Knicks weren't winning anything with him or without him.

As Ian O'Connor pointed out in the article linked on the board, Isiah has tranformed the Knicks' roster, yielding greater flexibility.

Everyone had said that Layden was locked into the roster he had constructed because the contracts weren't commensurate with the talent. That has completely changed. Isiah is in the process of putting together a team that will be a legitimate contender. Some fans may want to complain about the TT trade or some other trade, but the Knicks will be players in the trade market again because of Isiah, who has only been on the freakin' job for two months.

Patience is a virtue.

WE needed rebounding. KVH rebounded.

Spree on a good team SHOULD be doing better. It was a nice trade for all involved.

Steph trade was started by Laydog. I wonder if he could have pulled it off? I doubt Stepth, H20 and Spree all could play together. Team too small and need rebounding. Its a nice thougt.

But look at their stats since being traded, and they are almost identical, except at rebounding, where KVH has the clear advantage. TT averages the exact same ppg over the last 5 games as KVH.

It's not that KVH is so much better than TT, it's the chemistry. The other guys got used to KVH, and then he got sent away. TT is a different player, with a different personality. Isiah shrugs that stuff off and says it doesn't make that big a difference, but obviously the players see it differently. Marbury wanted a guy to throw dunk passes to, instead of setting up KVH and Doleac for jump shots. So, they give him TT and Nazr and he STILL isn't setting up guys for dunks.

Ironically, Marbury, the one who the KVH/Doleac trade was made to please, is the one who is suffering the most from the chemistry being off.

Our scoring is just about where it was pre-trade, though perhaps those numbers are a little skewed since we've done a lot of last minute scoring to make the box scores look respectable.

Our defense, however, has clearly taken a step back. Obviously we've been allowing our opponents to outscore us--- but we've allowed over 100 in 5 of the last 12 games. We're not making the stops we need to in order to compete. We're falling behind double-digits and have to fight to come back.

Posted by Rich:

The real reason it was a mistake to trade Spree is that his contract was one year shorter than KVH's, which would have made his expiring contract valuable as a trading chip next year. But the difference between a winning % of .433 and .450 is meaningless.

The larger issue is that Spree is entering his mid-30s, and the Knicks weren't winning anything with him or without him.

As Ian O'Connor pointed out in the article linked on the board, Isiah has tranformed the Knicks' roster, yielding greater flexibility.

Everyone had said that Layden was locked into the roster he had constructed because the contracts weren't commensurate with the talent. That has completely changed. Isiah is in the process of putting together a team that will be a legitimate contender. Some fans may want to complain about the TT trade or some other trade, but the Knicks will be players in the trade market again because of Isiah, who has only been on the freakin' job for two months.

Patience is a virtue.

Great Post....I agree 100%. flexability and a team for the future, Steph, TT, Nazr are all 26 Sweets, FWill, DeMarr are younger than that. This team wasnt set up for this year. They will make the playoffs anyway and be in better shape for next yr too.

Posted by DefAndReb:


Ironically, Marbury, the one who the KVH/Doleac trade was made to please, is the one who is suffering the most from the chemistry being off.

100% agree. Would even be funny if we weren't suffering like we currently do.

Stop being ticked, it won't change anything now. we have to move on. maybe we'll be lucky and it will work. and one day we'll say, "how a great trade it was".


[Edited by - raven on 03/02/2004 07:40:54]

Posted by fishmike:

the real mistake was not trading Spree after the 99 finals. His value was at an all time high, he was 29, his contract was expiring a year later and he played the same position as the other best player on the team.

We could have gotten a bigman, some prospects or the kind of picks that would have saved us this awfull downswing in the first place.

if that had happen back then the people of new york would have rioted. sprewell and camby were, besides maybe derek jeter and mike piazza, the most popular new york athletes at the time. then trade them away after they led the team to the finals? i am not a layzie lover but he did not have a crystal ball and see what the team would eventually shape up to be while having spree. now it is easy to say. there were a lot of "what ifs" back then, the only way spree and camby would have been trade was "if" houston had shot a brick in the first round miami game.

Posted by playa2:

Raven to many clowns has tried to discredit my post even the mods and now what I have said is coming to fruition . What the deal is knicks fans can't handle the freakin truth. They would rather listen to lies and fantasy moves in off season. I wanted to do well this yr at least. I really can't see this team turning around after Lenny marbury and Zeke got what they wanted and said "to hell" what we think.

sad to see that. one should respect eveyrone else opinion.
Did zeke did worst than layden ? right now I don't think so.
Did zeke did everything right ? right now I don't think so.

We needed to change something. Time will tell if we changed what we needed to.

if that had happen back then the people of new york would have rioted. sprewell and camby were, besides maybe derek jeter and mike piazza, the most popular new york athletes at the time.

Agree with you. A lot of luck for us that yr, but there were no mean to trade them at that point.