1	2	3	4 	T
PHI	22	29	38	17	106
NY	24	25	24	21	94
	1	2	3	4 	T
NY	34	31	18	31	114
MIL	36	25	32	26	119
	1	2	3	4 	T
NY	15	29	19	22	85
DAL	27	23	27	18	95
	1	2	3	4	OT 	T
NY	29	27	16	31	8	111
BOS	27	24	29	23	12	115

If they can somehow make a change that will solve this problem this team may just have a chance.

JCrusher wrote:ya i agree last year we had problems in the 3rd but last year we were over .500 for most the year. we had one bad stretch in the beginning and then we were pretty good we just needed a big man

This is where the mentality of the STAT and Melo led 1st unit is killing this team IMO. They really are only thinking about scoring. That's fine, but we need to have the ability to put in our defensive unit the way we did when the team was winning. MDA seems to have lost his flow in his rotation now with all these guys. He needs to get back to what was working regardless of the presence of STAT and Melo.

The same story keeps replaying itself in these losses. The team comes out in the 3rd and gives the game away. Then we have to have the bench bring us back but often too late or not enough. We need that defensive mentality back. When Jared is on the court with Tyson and Shump we have a totally defensive mentality. It also makes Lin and Fields that much better on D too.

JCrusher wrote:I miss donnie walsh but i knew when the trade happened that he was gonna leave because he had no more authority

Interesting ... I have not heard that angle ... good one.

JCrusher wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

JCrusher wrote:I miss donnie walsh but i knew when the trade happened that he was gonna leave because he had no more authority

Interesting ... I have not heard that angle ... good one.

what up man we are both knicks fans. You are a cool guy just chill lol

Whats with the "lol" at the end of every post? It reminds me of a funny Curb Your Enthusiasm episods.

nixluva wrote:I keep reading in other threads how MDA messed up Melo. MDA had to get Melo some rest, he played the entire 1st qtr. I think this is a bit of a stretch to suggest that MDA hurt Melo by giving him a rest at that point. Besides they didn't lose the game because of Melo getting a break in the 2nd qtr. They lost like they've been losing most of the games with a poor showing in the 3rd qtr.

Just look at the +/- numbers for STAT and Melo and you can see that they are major culprits in our losses. Melo -16 and STAT -12

I'm pretty sure that this is likely the case in many of our losses. As i've stated in another thread STAT and Melo are paid the big dollars to carry the team to wins, but they actually negatively effect the team with poor effort in 3rd qtrs, over and over again.

The offense is shaky and the defense is non-existent in almost every 3rd qtr.!!! They go in and look at video and talk about the need for more effort and energy and the players led by STAT and Melo do the complete opposite. Do you ever see STAT and Melo come out and lead the team in defensive effort in the 3rd qtr??? NO! You see the bench players come in with that defense and effort and bring the team back. This is the source of the problem.

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Look we can keep beating around the bush and talking about a million other reasons for the losing, but when you get down to it, the same cycle keeps playing out. The 1st unit comes out of the lockerroom and plays like garbage, in almost swiss clock precision every 3rd qtr. and then the bench digs the team out of that hole.

The offense is shaky and the defense is non-existent in almost every 3rd qtr.!!! They go in and look at video and talk about the need for more effort and energy and the players led by STAT and Melo do the complete opposite. Do you ever see STAT and Melo come out and lead the team in defensive effort in the 3rd qtr??? NO! You see the bench players come in with that defense and effort and bring the team back. This is the source of the problem.

Melo is not the DEFENSIVE problem. The guards are allowing anyone and everyone a free ride to the hoop. This, causes everyone to have to help and leave their man and then, you have chaos.

Also, all the turnovers are leading to way too many fast breaks. Can't win that way.

Stat not boxing out a lick on Brand sucked ass!

Melo had 9 rebounds - not too shabby but did not shoot well at all in the second half. It did however suck ass that he finally was hot and he really needed to run with that but instead of letting him continue to get back on track, MDA benches him. So I am not sure who is trying to sabotage who ...

Melo gets a pass on D by many, but really if you look at the combo of STAT and Melo which is the key here, not so much Melo by himself, but the Combo, They were a combined -28. Also this thread is about the last 5 games and how utterly useless the STAT Melo led 1st unit has been in the 3rd qtr, which has led to all the losses. I really don't want to get lost in the minor details when the overarching problem is that neither of them is leading the team to wins. As a combo they fail time and again in the 3rd qtr. The statistical trend is irrefutable!!!

We score less in the 3rd qtr and teams score way too much!!! That's when our 2 best players are on the court to start the 2nd half. They habitually come out worse than at any time in the game!!! I ask you to look at the box scores above in this thread and just look at the numbers.

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

nixluva wrote:Look we can keep beating around the bush and talking about a million other reasons for the losing, but when you get down to it, the same cycle keeps playing out. The 1st unit comes out of the lockerroom and plays like garbage, in almost swiss clock precision every 3rd qtr. and then the bench digs the team out of that hole.

The offense is shaky and the defense is non-existent in almost every 3rd qtr.!!! They go in and look at video and talk about the need for more effort and energy and the players led by STAT and Melo do the complete opposite. Do you ever see STAT and Melo come out and lead the team in defensive effort in the 3rd qtr??? NO! You see the bench players come in with that defense and effort and bring the team back. This is the source of the problem.

Melo is not the DEFENSIVE problem. The guards are allowing anyone and everyone a free ride to the hoop. This, causes everyone to have to help and leave their man and then, you have chaos.

Also, all the turnovers are leading to way too many fast breaks. Can't win that way.

Stat not boxing out a lick on Brand sucked ass!

Melo had 9 rebounds - not too shabby but did not shoot well at all in the second half. It did however suck ass that he finally was hot and he really needed to run with that but instead of letting him continue to get back on track, MDA benches him. So I am not sure who is trying to sabotage who ...

Melo gets a pass on D by many, but really if you look at the combo of STAT and Melo which is the key here, not so much Melo by himself, but the Combo, They were a combined -28. Also this thread is about the last 5 games and how utterly useless the STAT Melo led 1st unit has been in the 3rd qtr, which has led to all the losses. I really don't want to get lost in the minor details when the overarching problem is that neither of them is leading the team to wins. As a combo they fail time and again in the 3rd qtr. The statistical trend is irrefutable!!!

We score less in the 3rd qtr and teams score way too much!!! That's when our 2 best players are on the court to start the 2nd half. They habitually come out worse than at any time in the game!!! I ask you to look at the box scores above in this thread and just look at the numbers.

Did you watch the guard penetration in this game? Lin and Fields were a sieve - they allowed penetration on every play. Stat allows way too many second chance shots and is a way below average rebounder.

Melo shot terribly after he was taken out while he was red hot which is a big contribution to his bad +/-. I know you give MDA a pass on this but it was inexcusable especially that we need to get Melo on track.

How about the game before where the starters did much better than the bench?

J. Lin +13
J.R. Smith -6
A. Stoudemire +11
C. Anthony -5
L. Fields +10

2nd Unit:

B. Davis -2
S. Novak -18
J. Harrellson -14
I. Shumpert -14

You showing one or two examples doesn't trump the amount of evidence in my argument. As for Melo being taken out, it's a bit of a stretch when the guy played the whole 1st qtr. Besides what's the excuse for the 3rd qtr.? Do we just ignore the fact that 4 times out of 5 losses the same thing took place?

I'm not giving MDA a pass. This is the biggest misconception. MDA is struggling to get a feel for his rotations, but with the issues he's facing with lack of performance that is understandable. It's MUCH easier for a coach to make moves when he's getting some consistency and isn't dealing with multiple players not playing well. Also the mere fact that we have so many guys now also adds to the problem. How do you keep everyone sharp without hurting someone's flow?

Now back to the issue at hand. STAT and Melo get paid the bulk of our cap to lead the team and put them on their backs. Don't bring up the bench guys performance when it's clear that our stars should be doing so much more. The bench guys were key in the winning streak and have habitually gotten this team back in to games. Is this even an argument??? Our role players have done much more to help this team than our stars who are both playing below their career numbers. IT'S JUST A FACT! They are the ones that are underperforming and not lifting the team up! If the scrubs falter it's on your stars to take over and bring the team back not the other way around!

mrKnickShot wrote:
Whats my excuse for Melo? There are no excuses - he has been sucking! However, don't give me BS about him playing the whole first quarter - PLEASE! Even you can smell that it is horse-****! He was feeling it, we needed him to have a good game and get on track and he gets yanked? BS BS BS BS BS

As far as how much they make, I don't care - thats for Dolan to worry about.

Stat, Fields and Lins defense are killing the first team - sieve! Melo's shooting has been also killing them but it starts with defense.

Why did you leave Melo out of the equation when talking about poor defense??? He's a culprit too. Much more he and STAT together is a lethal combination defensively. They both kill the Knicks ability to defend teams at a high level. that's why MDA had to rely on the bench to get any real defense from the team. Melo is a huge part of it cuz he's not only responsible for his own man. Defense is a TEAM game. Melo is a very lazy TEAM defender along with STAT. The 2 together explains why the team is so bad in the 3rd quarter of games!!!

mrKnickShot wrote:Benches often spark teams - its common. Benches play harder and have more to prove while the coach unfortunately needs to find a way to motivate starters and that is clearly an issue here.

JJ missing is really hurting us (I can't believe I said that)

We are getting zero out of our SG's (aside from Shumps defense)

As far as the win streak - read any article all over the web (and I know you like posting articles) and they are all talking about how teams are now preparing for Lin and he is being trapped all over the place, and, he has yet to adjust. Not saying that its everything but definitely a big part. Teams have also realized that you can get by him with stupid ease. Is that a problem? Did you see the game today? It's a problem my friend, a big effin problem!

Kobe killed the lakers before PJax

Melo is killing the knicks before PJax

Hope? I hope so.

It's not about teams preparing for Lin!!! Lin has had games where he had very few TO's. Lin may make his mistakes, but the big problem in games isn't when Lin is on the court. TO's are highly visible, but what you don't see is when a player isn't helping on D and shutting down penetration. It's harder to catch sometimes. STAT and Melo are so bad at it that you think it's someone else's fault, like the guards. The only way you notice what's missing from the D is when the bench comes in and shuts down penetration. Then all of a sudden it's clear that this isn't happening with STAT and Melo in there. STAT and Melo's fundamentals are so weak that it severely weakens the teams D. Even Tyson can't fully cover for that.

Now all of a sudden when you put Tyson and Jared on the court it's a different story. Add Shump and it's even better. Suddenly Fields and Lin are much more solid defensively. Gee I wonder why?

Rookie wrote:The team is also slow to start games...the only constant is that the same personnel are on the floor in both the beginning of the 1st and 3rd qtrs

YUP! Some people around here don't want to accept the truth. The main difference between this team when it was winning and all the losing now is the presence of STAT and Melo. They dominate the 1st and 3rd qtrs and lo and behold we lose the 3rd qtr of games constantly. If this team is gonna win, they either have to step up their effort in the 3rd qtr or we have to make a change coming out for the 3rd qtr of games. Or perhaps make a quicker rotation change in the 3rd before we lose it completely.