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lin doesn't get ref respect
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soundcrib
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3/5/2012  6:59 PM
he gets hammered on almost every drive through the lane or bumped on every trap or show in the pick and roll. more often than not, he does not get the whistle. he's obviously not a complainer but very often gives the refs the WTF look when he gets hit and nothing is called. if he does get a whistle, it's usually delayed.

meanwhile, the "stars" of the league will get the call if a defender is in the vicinity and "looks like" a foul should happen. other times, the phantom foul warrants the whistle for the star with the defender giving the off the WTF look.

are the refs tired of linsanity? does he not have the refs' respect? i thought a foul is a foul is a foul regardless of circumstance.

and it's not just the heat or celtics game last night. it's been every game since the linsanity era.

AUTOADVERT
NYKBocker
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3/5/2012  7:25 PM
Lin has gotten bloodied and bruised. This is my lone complaint on MDA. He needs to work the media and get the refs and leagues attention. MDA needs to do a Phil Jackson and use the media.
MarburyAnd1Crossover
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3/5/2012  7:36 PM
No, he has to get banged up so that he will be initiated into the brotherhood of nba ballers. Guys are getting their punches in right now, and when he survives he will be there, getting the calls and not being beat so bad.
Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
NYKBocker
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3/5/2012  7:45 PM
MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:No, he has to get banged up so that he will be initiated into the brotherhood of nba ballers. Guys are getting their punches in right now, and when he survives he will be there, getting the calls and not being beat so bad.

So what was the refs excuse on the non-call on Melo's last shot attempt after regulation? Pierce was riding him and pushing him on his hips the whole time.

Mray20
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3/5/2012  8:04 PM
Melo doesn't get any calls either I think it's Knick curse, I used to complain back in the day how Allan Houston used to get hacked like hell by Dan Majerlie and the rest of the Heat smh. Nobody likes NY unless you're from NY
No layups!
SlimChin
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3/5/2012  8:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/5/2012  8:12 PM
Mray20 wrote:Melo doesn't get any calls either I think it's Knick curse, I used to complain back in the day how Allan Houston used to get hacked like hell by Dan Majerlie and the rest of the Heat smh. Nobody likes NY unless you're from NY


seriously, the refs don't even help us out at home.


but Lin's a rookie—do any rookies get calls?

mrKnickShot
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3/5/2012  8:13 PM
Thats the case at all - Melo goes to the line 6.9 times a game and PPierce goes 5.3.

Melo is seventh in the league.

loweyecue
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3/5/2012  8:24 PM
SlimChin wrote:
Mray20 wrote:Melo doesn't get any calls either I think it's Knick curse, I used to complain back in the day how Allan Houston used to get hacked like hell by Dan Majerlie and the rest of the Heat smh. Nobody likes NY unless you're from NY


seriously, the refs don't even help us out at home.


but Lin's a rookie—do any rookies get calls?

Of course they do - Check out Blake Griffin games from his first year. This stupid pecking order based on draft selction is beyond ridiculous.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Clean
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3/5/2012  8:45 PM
Celtics just get special calls and non calls. One specific instance that I will never forget is Shump being called for a touch foul on R.Allen. The problem with the call is that the "foul" happened in front of Allen near the mid section. The ref who called the foul was directly behind Allen, with no way to actually see the foul.
mrKnickShot
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3/5/2012  8:48 PM
Clean wrote:Celtics just get special calls and non calls. One specific instance that I will never forget is Shump being called for a touch foul on R.Allen. The problem with the call is that the "foul" happened in front of Allen near the mid section. The ref who called the foul was directly behind Allen, with no way to actually see the foul.

So you think the ref just made it up because he is pro boston?

Clean
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3/5/2012  8:53 PM
mrKnickShot wrote:
Clean wrote:Celtics just get special calls and non calls. One specific instance that I will never forget is Shump being called for a touch foul on R.Allen. The problem with the call is that the "foul" happened in front of Allen near the mid section. The ref who called the foul was directly behind Allen, with no way to actually see the foul.

So you think the ref just made it up because he is pro boston?

I can't say what the ref was thinking. I just can not understand how he can make a call when he has no way to see the actual foul. I think I even pointed this out in the gamethread.

loweyecue
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3/5/2012  9:02 PM
For one Jeremy Lin the playoffs have already started. Defenses are putting max effort on him and it will only make him better. The road is long and hard, and he will be knocked down to the floor often, as a fan I can only hope he can keep getting up. So far he has shown that he can.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
nixluva
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3/5/2012  10:40 PM
Lin is in the process of learning how Nash felt as the lead guard in this system. Nash was absolutely HAMMERED by teams and especially in the playoffs!!! Really it's almost a carbon copy of the bloody noses and bruised body that Nash had to undergo and like Nash Lin is tough and relatively undaunted. Eventually as we win more and the respect level builds for Lin we have to hope he'll get more calls. He's got to sell the contact more tho. I hate flopping, but when you legitimately get fouled I have no problem with selling it.
mrKnickShot
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3/5/2012  11:18 PM
TripleThreat wrote:
soundcrib wrote:are the refs tired of linsanity? does he not have the refs' respect? i thought a foul is a foul is a foul regardless of circumstance.

IMHO, the refs have a pretty complicated situation with Jeremy Lin.

First, the league and Stern will point things out to refs but never directly tell them, not anything that can be documented, to officiate a certain way or not for a specific player or team. Nothing that can be construed as "I want this team to advance in the playoffs" and "I want you to job this player" This is so Stern can have complete deniability. I.E. I never said for anyone to do this or that, they did that on their own. What Stern and Stu Jackson will do is make sure any ref who does not toe the line and figure it out, give them what they want without it being said, will not be promoted, will not get raises, will not get playoff work and will eventually be cycled out of the league.

Second, if you are going to be a ref and cheat for Stern ( i.e. favor the players he wants to market, advance the teams he wants to move up for the ratings, and keep nationally televised games close), you can't look like you are cheating anyone. Hence, home teams will always be at an advantage. The way replays are shown and telecasts are done are designed to favor the home team. Stern will not punish refs for keeping the home crowd happy and to not incite problems on replay or the JumboTron during the game. Teams who win all their home games and lose all their road games, their season ticket holders will remember all those home wins. This is how you get them to renew. Esp with so much of the league either tanking or treadmilling or have no hope in hell to win a ring or get better, these teams need all the help they can to retain season ticket holders.

Third, star players will always get calls over non star players, within a pecking order. The average NBA fan tunes in to see the stars, particularly their favorite stars, and that's not going to be fun to pay out the nose to see a game in person if your favorite star player gets fouled out for playing defense in the third quarter. This isn't just an impact on offense, but also on defense. Boston fans pay to see Garnett and Allen and Pierce play, if they hack Lin, part of it is because refs don't want to foul out these players or get them into foul trouble. Game isn't so fun for Celtic faithful if Pierce is on the bench near the end of the game with five fouls and the coach trying to figure out when to put him back in.

Fourth, if your free throw shooting is not predictive, refs can't gauge the impact of giving you free throws to keep a game close. You know Nash will hit 90 plus percent of his free throws. That's reliable. You know Dwight Howard will hit one of two. That's reliable. Lin hits like 70 percent-75 percent. Sometimes he hits two, sometimes he hits one. If he wants better calls, he has to make his free throw shooting more predictive for refs. I'm not saying it's fair or I like it or it's got any integrity to it, but this is how IMHO, the NBA works for superstar calls.

Fifth, Lin is going to have to adjust his game from the road to home. At home, he will get more calls. On the road, to Miami or Boston, it's a different story. On the road he's going to have to shoot more jumpers and let Melo go into isolation more and try to feed Chandler in the post. On the road, you have to be a jump shooting team, this is where refs can't hurt you. You can't get jobbed on a three point attempt. There is no phantom contact they can make up.

Sixth, sadly Lin is going to have flop more. I hate flopping. I hate that so many players do it. But it works, which is why they do it. Lin attracts a lot of non hard core casual fans, who won't see a flop, but will see Lin crash onto the floor, a skinny 23 year old nice Christian Asian boy, with a couple of hulking 6'9 poor educated black guys menacing over him. This is where I agree with another poster, that Lin has to pay some rookie dues, but also D'Antoni has to use the press to protect Lin. All that is needed is for many Asian networks and affiliates to show Lin being hammered over and over by huge black guys, and D'Antoni saying he hopes Lin doesn't get hurt, for the headlines there to say that a bunch of jealous black oversized thugs are beating the hell out of Lin. Lin is worth a billion dollars in marketing potential to the NBA and the foothold to further globalize the game for Stern, do you think he wants the foreign press to run those stories? Good hearted, humble, underdog, who went to the good school and said the right things and is the biggest story in sports is being beaten to a pulp by the thug life wannabe rap star image that Stern has desperately tried to move away from. Stern thinks about the billion dollars, he yells at Silver, who yells at Stu Jackson, who yells at the head of refs, who has no idea what is going on, except that Stern is pissed, he starts yelling, refs worry about losing their raises and perks and then Lin is shooting 10 free throws a game again.

Seventh, D'Antoni is going to have to send Bill Walker out there to throw a forearm in someone's face. Take the technical and get refs to WARN everyone. Then after that, every hack on Lin looks like retaliation , not the standard game plan that it has become. Once the refs warn everyone, they have to enforce that to keep their authority, and Lin gets more calls. And if they don't, it will show up on the JumboTron, for all to see in the highlights, the refs warning both benches and then Lin getting hacked to death. The foreign press picks it up and now the league won't do anything to protect Lin against the common thuggery that has driven away a good chunk of Caucasian, Asian and female potential viewers in the past.

Eighth, eventually Lin is going to have to stick someone in the face. These other players are not falling out of Mensa meetings. Most of them are poorly educated and poorly socialized and it is a hazing process for a rookie. They want to see how much they can hit him and get away with it. Again, this is how the current thug life rap star glitz marketing self promoting chucker NBA behaves. Some players just won't respect him until he draws blood. IMHO, Lin hasn't figured out yet that the refs can't and won't foul him out on defense, they'll get him in foul trouble or toss him if he's blatant or do it at the end of a game that won't matter or isn't close, but in some games, some close ones and national TV ones, they aren't going to call everything. That's when he can smack around players who aren't as marketable. He can kick, jab, elbow, knee, kidney punch, spit, pull and hammer on a Norris Cole or Mario Chalmers. He can't do that to a Wade or a Ray Allen.

I love the Lin story, not only is he an underdog, but he throws the entire reverse racism NBA culture on it's heels. In the NBA, he's the minority. In the NBA, he's the novelty. In the NBA, he has to prove he's twice as good and work four times as hard to get the same credit as some thug life yo who can dunk over a car. The sad thing is Lin wants to play team ball, but the league is not designed for team ball, the league is designed for marketing and profit above all else, and if you want a clean game or clean calls, you have to lobby and manipulate and politic for them like Phil Jackson did.

Lin has to learn to play the "other game" in the NBA that matters for his success. He is right now the most marketable athlete in the entire world and he has to use that leverage and the love of the crowd to his advantage.

Can you please elaborate?

FistOfOakley
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3/5/2012  11:21 PM
there was a study done by some researchers at upenn about racial bias with nba referees. you can read the paper here:
http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/jwolfers/Papers/NBARace.pdf

and decent commentary in layman term's summarizing it here:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/22399/study-on-referees-and-race-still-dogs-the-nba

basically black refs favor black players and white refs favor white players... don't know where asians fit in here but the bias is rather small, roughly 4% and amounts to a whistle a game.

lin has been getting bumped and held but so does rose, westbrook and the other pgs and it affects them less since they're so physically gifted. that being said, they also get calls when they trap hard and bumped off the pick...

he was getting to the line a staggering amount of times before and it seems to have tailed off. it does seem to be taking it to the basket alot less whether it's from being tired of hitting the deck or the attention he's been getting down low.

he'll get his share of whistles down the line but it seems the deck might already be stacked against him a bit.

jrodmc
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3/6/2012  7:37 AM
mrKnickShot wrote:
TripleThreat wrote:
soundcrib wrote:are the refs tired of linsanity? does he not have the refs' respect? i thought a foul is a foul is a foul regardless of circumstance.

IMHO, the refs have a pretty complicated situation with Jeremy Lin.

First, the league and Stern will point things out to refs but never directly tell them, not anything that can be documented, to officiate a certain way or not for a specific player or team. Nothing that can be construed as "I want this team to advance in the playoffs" and "I want you to job this player" This is so Stern can have complete deniability. I.E. I never said for anyone to do this or that, they did that on their own. What Stern and Stu Jackson will do is make sure any ref who does not toe the line and figure it out, give them what they want without it being said, will not be promoted, will not get raises, will not get playoff work and will eventually be cycled out of the league.

Second, if you are going to be a ref and cheat for Stern ( i.e. favor the players he wants to market, advance the teams he wants to move up for the ratings, and keep nationally televised games close), you can't look like you are cheating anyone. Hence, home teams will always be at an advantage. The way replays are shown and telecasts are done are designed to favor the home team. Stern will not punish refs for keeping the home crowd happy and to not incite problems on replay or the JumboTron during the game. Teams who win all their home games and lose all their road games, their season ticket holders will remember all those home wins. This is how you get them to renew. Esp with so much of the league either tanking or treadmilling or have no hope in hell to win a ring or get better, these teams need all the help they can to retain season ticket holders.

Third, star players will always get calls over non star players, within a pecking order. The average NBA fan tunes in to see the stars, particularly their favorite stars, and that's not going to be fun to pay out the nose to see a game in person if your favorite star player gets fouled out for playing defense in the third quarter. This isn't just an impact on offense, but also on defense. Boston fans pay to see Garnett and Allen and Pierce play, if they hack Lin, part of it is because refs don't want to foul out these players or get them into foul trouble. Game isn't so fun for Celtic faithful if Pierce is on the bench near the end of the game with five fouls and the coach trying to figure out when to put him back in.

Fourth, if your free throw shooting is not predictive, refs can't gauge the impact of giving you free throws to keep a game close. You know Nash will hit 90 plus percent of his free throws. That's reliable. You know Dwight Howard will hit one of two. That's reliable. Lin hits like 70 percent-75 percent. Sometimes he hits two, sometimes he hits one. If he wants better calls, he has to make his free throw shooting more predictive for refs. I'm not saying it's fair or I like it or it's got any integrity to it, but this is how IMHO, the NBA works for superstar calls.

Fifth, Lin is going to have to adjust his game from the road to home. At home, he will get more calls. On the road, to Miami or Boston, it's a different story. On the road he's going to have to shoot more jumpers and let Melo go into isolation more and try to feed Chandler in the post. On the road, you have to be a jump shooting team, this is where refs can't hurt you. You can't get jobbed on a three point attempt. There is no phantom contact they can make up.

Sixth, sadly Lin is going to have flop more. I hate flopping. I hate that so many players do it. But it works, which is why they do it. Lin attracts a lot of non hard core casual fans, who won't see a flop, but will see Lin crash onto the floor, a skinny 23 year old nice Christian Asian boy, with a couple of hulking 6'9 poor educated black guys menacing over him. This is where I agree with another poster, that Lin has to pay some rookie dues, but also D'Antoni has to use the press to protect Lin. All that is needed is for many Asian networks and affiliates to show Lin being hammered over and over by huge black guys, and D'Antoni saying he hopes Lin doesn't get hurt, for the headlines there to say that a bunch of jealous black oversized thugs are beating the hell out of Lin. Lin is worth a billion dollars in marketing potential to the NBA and the foothold to further globalize the game for Stern, do you think he wants the foreign press to run those stories? Good hearted, humble, underdog, who went to the good school and said the right things and is the biggest story in sports is being beaten to a pulp by the thug life wannabe rap star image that Stern has desperately tried to move away from. Stern thinks about the billion dollars, he yells at Silver, who yells at Stu Jackson, who yells at the head of refs, who has no idea what is going on, except that Stern is pissed, he starts yelling, refs worry about losing their raises and perks and then Lin is shooting 10 free throws a game again.

Seventh, D'Antoni is going to have to send Bill Walker out there to throw a forearm in someone's face. Take the technical and get refs to WARN everyone. Then after that, every hack on Lin looks like retaliation , not the standard game plan that it has become. Once the refs warn everyone, they have to enforce that to keep their authority, and Lin gets more calls. And if they don't, it will show up on the JumboTron, for all to see in the highlights, the refs warning both benches and then Lin getting hacked to death. The foreign press picks it up and now the league won't do anything to protect Lin against the common thuggery that has driven away a good chunk of Caucasian, Asian and female potential viewers in the past.

Eighth, eventually Lin is going to have to stick someone in the face. These other players are not falling out of Mensa meetings. Most of them are poorly educated and poorly socialized and it is a hazing process for a rookie. They want to see how much they can hit him and get away with it. Again, this is how the current thug life rap star glitz marketing self promoting chucker NBA behaves. Some players just won't respect him until he draws blood. IMHO, Lin hasn't figured out yet that the refs can't and won't foul him out on defense, they'll get him in foul trouble or toss him if he's blatant or do it at the end of a game that won't matter or isn't close, but in some games, some close ones and national TV ones, they aren't going to call everything. That's when he can smack around players who aren't as marketable. He can kick, jab, elbow, knee, kidney punch, spit, pull and hammer on a Norris Cole or Mario Chalmers. He can't do that to a Wade or a Ray Allen.

I love the Lin story, not only is he an underdog, but he throws the entire reverse racism NBA culture on it's heels. In the NBA, he's the minority. In the NBA, he's the novelty. In the NBA, he has to prove he's twice as good and work four times as hard to get the same credit as some thug life yo who can dunk over a car. The sad thing is Lin wants to play team ball, but the league is not designed for team ball, the league is designed for marketing and profit above all else, and if you want a clean game or clean calls, you have to lobby and manipulate and politic for them like Phil Jackson did.

Lin has to learn to play the "other game" in the NBA that matters for his success. He is right now the most marketable athlete in the entire world and he has to use that leverage and the love of the crowd to his advantage.

Can you please elaborate?

The movie's going to be incredible.

Nalod
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3/6/2012  7:52 AM

Knicks, and Lin have to earn the respect.

Lin plays a reckless style and commits early which is why he falls down a lot.

He'll get there.

There are cracks in his game. His Armor has weak spots. He'll find a way to get it repaired.

A good Blacksmith can hammer out any chinks in it.

Lin needs to up his FT% in clutch. Fatigue hits him.

He'll get there.

Does racism play into any of this?

MarburyAnd1Crossover
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3/6/2012  8:02 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:No, he has to get banged up so that he will be initiated into the brotherhood of nba ballers. Guys are getting their punches in right now, and when he survives he will be there, getting the calls and not being beat so bad.

So what was the refs excuse on the non-call on Melo's last shot attempt after regulation? Pierce was riding him and pushing him on his hips the whole time.

Different apples, all I'm saying is that Lin needs to get beat up before he earns membership.

Carmelo Anthony is ANTI-BASKETBALL
RoyBatty
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3/6/2012  9:15 AM
what doesn't kill him will make him stronger. I'm very much behind this young man; his history shows a person willing to make himself better and to take on the challenges that make him a better player. I just wish the media pressure on him wasn't this much. But all of this will push him to learn to dribble left, make that turn faster and develop a jump shot.

Having said that, if I were playing the celtics and they flop, well my fouling mode would be to make sure the ref sees it's not a flop, but real pain.

SlimChin
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3/6/2012  10:45 AM
good defensive teams are starting to trap him which gets him into trouble. i wonder, is the coaching staff trying to figure something out for this? and i also see his teammates standing around when the trap comes.
lin doesn't get ref respect

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