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Dissapointed in Deke...and others
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Andrew
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2/25/2004  10:08 AM
I know he is a proud man, but it seems Deke is doing more complaining these days than actual playing. When is the last time he actually had an impact on the game. I thought he would be a little more gracious and understand the reasons why he didn't start....especially against a more perimited player like Vlade.

Also...all the focus has been on the new guys, but I don't think it should be. Shandon has been a total non factor...getting starters minutes and anly putting up 10 points a game has us hurting.

KT has disappeared and seems to be overmathed by anyone who is willing to put forth the effort and energy to run out and guard him on the perimiter. I'm very dissapointed in his play lately.
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TRU
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2/25/2004  11:01 AM
Posted by Andrew:

I know he is a proud man, but it seems Deke is doing more complaining these days than actual playing. When is the last time he actually had an impact on the game. I thought he would be a little more gracious and understand the reasons why he didn't start....especially against a more perimited player like Vlade.

Also...all the focus has been on the new guys, but I don't think it should be. Shandon has been a total non factor...getting starters minutes and anly putting up 10 points a game has us hurting.


KT has disappeared and seems to be overmathed by anyone who is willing to put forth the effort and energy to run out and guard him on the perimiter. I'm very dissapointed in his play lately.

I'm with you, 'drew. I understand his pride, and he's an amazing physical specimen for his age. He is often overmatched, however. He's always been an emotional player, and a crybaby. It's a difficult period in any athlete's life, and he's taking it hard.

But then, winning fixes everything. The players sometimes respond like fans do: you drop a few and all of a sudden the world is coming to an end. When Allan returns, and the pieces start falling into place, he'll be glad to be afforded 13 minutes to contribute to a winning cause.

Shandon was never realiable, as a starter or otherwise, so his unsatisfying productions shouldn't surprise you.

Teams have all gone to guarding Steph straight up lately, and that's shut down KT's production, making the pick-and-pop impossible. It's also forcing marbury to take more poor shots. Another scorer (Allan) will hopefully make everything easier.

[Edited by - TRU on 02/25/2004 11:20:12]
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gunsnewing
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2/25/2004  11:06 AM
I feel bad for him but he has to realize that he's still very valuable to us in the playoffs against bigger centers. He seems to have a lot of pride but his role in NJ & in NY was diminished because at 38 he's not the player he used to be. I think once the smoke clears he will realize this and accept the fact that we're trying to develop Nazr so he can be our center next year and keep in mind that he can still contribute.
jazz74
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2/25/2004  11:21 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

I feel bad for him but he has to realize that he's still very valuable to us in the playoffs against bigger centers. He seems to have a lot of pride but his role in NJ & in NY was diminished because at 38 he's not the player he used to be. I think once the smoke clears he will realize this and accept the fact that we're trying to develop Nazr so he can be our center next year and keep in mind that he can still contribute.

you hit is right on the head, g. we have to realize that dikembe is valuable in spurts. in the playoffs he will help us against teams hith large frontlines (detroit, indy and nj). but he can't play over 20 minutes a game anymore. that is just the facts. ewing went through it as well as olajowan. he just has to accept it. naz is the future and the future just came.
gunsnewing
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2/25/2004  11:50 AM
yeah I thought about the same thing. If Ewing and Dream even didn't then why wouldn't Deke! it's actually funny lol
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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2/25/2004  11:58 AM
Deke will be okay. His pride and ego take a hit from losing his starting spot, but maybe he'll turn it up off the bench. IMO starting Mohammed is a move in the right direction.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 02/25/2004 11:59:05]
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nyvector16
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2/25/2004  1:21 PM
I predicted at the time of the trade that Nazr would be our starter within 5 games... it did'nt even take that long. I think alot of people saw this coming. I'm just surprised Deke didn't appear to have seen it coming...
ARES
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2/25/2004  2:36 PM
whaen are you guys going to realize deke aint valuable at all, this guy is a now a liabilty on both ends. he cant move his feet, can guard any one unless they bring it to him and he gives up positioning all the time.
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VDesai
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2/25/2004  3:22 PM
Deke needs to stop complaining. He needs to know that he doesn't match up well against some teams, but at the same time he has been valuable enough to win us a few games. In the first half he a had a great string of games that got us wins against teams like the Hornets. He also contributed big against Indy. He's not the same player he was, but he has been very useful this year.

As for Anderson, you always sorta want more from him, but what can you do? He just isn't that good. Penny has also seen his level of play slip recently. We need a lot more from both those guys with Houston out.
MaseInYourFace
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2/25/2004  8:33 PM
Posted by Andrew:

I know he is a proud man, but it seems Deke is doing more complaining these days than actual playing. When is the last time he actually had an impact on the game. I thought he would be a little more gracious and understand the reasons why he didn't start....especially against a more perimited player like Vlade.

Also...all the focus has been on the new guys, but I don't think it should be. Shandon has been a total non factor...getting starters minutes and anly putting up 10 points a game has us hurting.

KT has disappeared and seems to be overmathed by anyone who is willing to put forth the effort and energy to run out and guard him on the perimiter. I'm very dissapointed in his play lately.


all 3 of them kt, deke, shadumb should have been shipped off before the deadline

you want to talk about getting more athletic?hahah kt and deke is where you upgrade, not KVH. let deke complain all he wants, he sucks and only gets in the way of marbury.

shandon?he just has no bball skills whatsoever, and should be sitting at the very end of someones bench



and you are spot on regarding KT. his offense last game consisted of getting the ball,realizing he cant do anything, and then handing it off. oh yea his "toughness" did wonders for our defense lol

[Edited by - MaseInYourFace on 02/25/2004 20:34:58]
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Bobby
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2/25/2004  9:03 PM
Andrew.....you are probably right, but Deke, Thomas and Anderson are old news. At will fans can pick and post those players anytime. Just wait till H20 returns, you'll be saying its about time.

Look here,TT and Nazr are the news kids on the block and the welcoming committee is handing out greetings....welcome to the mecca baby!
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
MaseInYourFace
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2/25/2004  9:18 PM
Posted by Bobby:

Andrew.....you are probably right, but Deke, Thomas and Anderson are old news. At will fans can pick and post those players anytime. Just wait till H20 returns, you'll be saying its about time.

Look here,TT and Nazr are the news kids on the block and the welcoming committee is handing out greetings....welcome to the mecca baby!

the welcoming committee was chanting "KEITH VAN HORN" last game at MSG actually
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CanadianKnicksFan
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2/26/2004  4:22 PM
Nazr will never be a top flight center in this league,Never done anything to make anyone think he will become one anytime soon.

Start Zeke and split the minutes 24 & 24 and see who performs
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MaseInYourFace
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2/26/2004  5:37 PM
Posted by CanadianKnicksFan:

Nazr will never be a top flight center in this league,Never done anything to make anyone think he will become one anytime soon.

Start Zeke and split the minutes 24 & 24 and see who performs

youre crazy, zeke is old and washed up-mohammed is the only reason the kvh trade MIGHT turn out ok. even IT says this, and zeke knows this, he just isn't humble enough to take it gracefully. give mohammed and sweetney plenty of minutes and try to develop them. zeke and kt are the past and we need to look past them (this year's playoff run hopes are gone anyhow).
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jazz74
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2/27/2004  8:09 AM
Posted by CanadianKnicksFan:

Nazr will never be a top flight center in this league,Never done anything to make anyone think he will become one anytime soon.

Start Zeke and split the minutes 24 & 24 and see who performs

listen, we are not going to say naz will be the "dominant" center in the league. but in this day and age we do not need a dominant center. is collins from the nets better than naz? nope. but new jersey is winning. is pollard better than naz? nope. but indy is still winning. we want naz to be in the trenches and provide SOME low post moves and a lot of rebounding and a few intimidations. he is athletic (at least he was when i saw him in philly). also remember his stat when he was starting in atlanta two years ago. not bad. he will work out fine. we just need h20 back. but i still think deke will be the key if we want to get far in this year's playoffs. next year, who knows?
playa2
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2/27/2004  8:14 AM
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by CanadianKnicksFan:

Nazr will never be a top flight center in this league,Never done anything to make anyone think he will become one anytime soon.

Start Zeke and split the minutes 24 & 24 and see who performs

listen, we are not going to say naz will be the "dominant" center in the league. but in this day and age we do not need a dominant center. is collins from the nets better than naz? nope. but new jersey is winning. is pollard better than naz? nope. but indy is still winning. we want naz to be in the trenches and provide SOME low post moves and a lot of rebounding and a few intimidations. he is athletic (at least he was when i saw him in philly). also remember his stat when he was starting in atlanta two years ago. not bad. he will work out fine. we just need h20 back. but i still think deke will be the key if we want to get far in this year's playoffs. next year, who knows?


Knicks fans are getting silly, how are you gonna compare NJ and Indiana rosters to ours when you bring up Collins and Pollard. Those guys can play because the players surronding them. We can't afford to do that with our non athletic roster.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
jazz74
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2/27/2004  8:33 AM
calm down with the "silliness" notion,play. here are the facts. the center position is not the premier position like it was ten years ago. that means we can get by with an average center. naz is an average center. if you pay attention to detail the past couple of years, if there is a postion that has been important it is the 4. besides shaq which is a big exception, the teams with the most success have stellar power forwards. then the next position is point guard, which we already have. actually i think the 1 position is the most important in the east. to sit there and say we need a "dominant" center is'nt going to happen period. but we have a center better than the other options we had since camby was healthy. i think naz will be better and will shore up the middle for a good 5 years. all we need is a little bit of luck to land a good 4 ( sheed?) and we are set.
playa2
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2/27/2004  9:55 AM
Posted by jazz74:

calm down with the "silliness" notion,play. here are the facts. the center position is not the premier position like it was ten years ago. that means we can get by with an average center. naz is an average center. if you pay attention to detail the past couple of years, if there is a postion that has been important it is the 4. besides shaq which is a big exception, the teams with the most success have stellar power forwards. then the next position is point guard, which we already have. actually i think the 1 position is the most important in the east. to sit there and say we need a "dominant" center is'nt going to happen period. but we have a center better than the other options we had since camby was healthy. i think naz will be better and will shore up the middle for a good 5 years. all we need is a little bit of luck to land a good 4 ( sheed?) and we are set.

Jazz if you noticed the teams with the great point guard hasn't won nothing. The teams with the big plauyers are a rare commodity, getting a pg is easier to get than frontline player. That's one of the reason why I was a lil upset that we went small 1st instead of selling the cow for great pg. Servicable PG come in the draft ,overseas, nbdl, but big guys are hard to find anywhere.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
jazz74
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2/27/2004  12:36 PM
Jazz if you noticed the teams with the great point guard hasn't won nothing. The teams with the big plauyers are a rare commodity, getting a pg is easier to get than frontline player. That's one of the reason why I was a lil upset that we went small 1st instead of selling the cow for great pg. Servicable PG come in the draft ,overseas, nbdl, but big guys are hard to find anywhere.

if you notice in the east, the teams that are doing well like detroit and nj have great point guards. indy is an exception becuase they fall into the case you are making about good big men. i said that having a great pf will help you. but it is not like people were giving them out. you said that we should have gotten sheed and developed f-will. let's make this clear about sheed: he can not lift a team on his shoulders, especially the knicks. in order for him to be successful he has to be the second option like he is in detroit. he is not a franchise player anymore. the 99-00 sheed is long gone. you can say the seame about rahim who was also available. so instead we got a better option with starbury. the point is there are no more available "good" big men that people were willing to trade.

now the argument with naz. i am not hailing naz as the upper echelon center. he won't be. but as knick fans we were so spoiled with 15 years of ewing that we think we should have a stellar 5. as far as i am concerned there are just maybe five centers that i would say are really good ( shaq, ming, gasol, miller and stretching with camby) big ben is a western power forward masquarading as an eastern center. but i like what naz will bring to the knicks: hard-work, offensive rebounds, quickness, intimidation, low post scoring and most importantly youth. i think naz is a considerable upgrade from mutumbo for this team.
Dissapointed in Deke...and others

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