nixluva wrote:It's funny that people don't understand a Coach wanting to bring a player along slowly. No harm comes to a young player when you take a very calculated approach to developing him. Lin got his spot minutes and then a longer look and finally a big shot to prove who he is. Is that not a logical way to handle a young player that you think has talent? It makes perfect sense. Especially since he didn't have a camp with us and very little practice time. MDA has had him playing 3 on 3's on game days with Baron and Jordan etc. Despite what so many think MDA has been working with Lin the whole time.

No reason why Lin couldn't evolve into a Mo Williams or Ramon Sessions or a Charlie Ward/Chris Childs or a Luke Ridnour given ample playing time. From what we see, he can change speeds and change directions under control, making him difficult to stay in front of. He does not seem like an extremely explosive athlete, nor can we tell if he has out of this world court vision. He certainly seems to have the ability to play with the PG spot in an uptempo fashion, pushing the ball and making defenders react.

We've played long stretches of this season (based on the games I've seen!) with a very predictable offense, which allows the defense to rest and dig in. The beauty of D'Antoni's ideal system is the motion, making defenses react, and countering it with movement to the open man. We've been struggling playing this power game - handing the stars the ball and making them score the hard way. It's already taken its toll on Carmelo and Amare. Certainly there should be stretches of games where the Knicks should go into a very methodical offensive scheme... but the running game needs to be there to let the team get easy baskets, saving energy for those tough moments.

Travla wrote:I honestly believe that the Knicks would have lost this game without Lin. They would have played right into the Nets hands by going back to long range shooting because Carmelo was off and Stat was limited by foul troubles. You always need a point guard to set up teammates and go to the basket with reckless abandon. That's what made the difference, teams know the Knicks don't penetrate well or enough and they wait for them to shoot themselves in the foot.

yep

gunsnewing wrote:This is why I panicked when I heard the Knicks were after Ramon Sessions until I realized it was Marc Berman making it up

HA! That's funny. I wasn't really that worried cuz trades are hard to make and even harder when you have our record and our bench. We don't have much to work with. I also had some faith that Lin would eventually get a shot. Just glad that he grabbed the chance by the throat. It's like last year with Shawne. He worked his butt off and EARNED his shot.

I also wanted to add that MDA does it this way so that there's no question from the guy who's job he takes. When you have vets that want to play, you can't just take their job without making them come to the realization that this player is playing better. This way the coach can make the move and there's no questions or hard feelings like in the past.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:It's funny that people don't understand a Coach wanting to bring a player along slowly. No harm comes to a young player when you take a very calculated approach to developing him. Lin got his spot minutes and then a longer look and finally a big shot to prove who he is. Is that not a logical way to handle a young player that you think has talent? It makes perfect sense. Especially since he didn't have a camp with us and very little practice time. MDA has had him playing 3 on 3's on game days with Baron and Jordan etc. Despite what so many think MDA has been working with Lin the whole time.

I don't know. He was sent to the d-league which I guess means the organization was committed to him but I don't know how or where you are getting your information that D'Antoni was working with him the whole time. He certainly looked like a world beater at the point compared to Douglas whenever he played and yet until last night he was a garbage time player.

Do you think that the Knicks coaching staff was just letting him hang out and not work on his game? There was an effort to get him up to speed, but fans think it's just automatic that if you have talent you can just go out there and look great from day one. He came in late and didn't have the advantage of camp.

They got him extra work in game day practices and of course the short stint in D league. As needed as a PG has been for this team, it's not hard to imagine that they were working behind the scenes to coach him up and get him ready. Just glad that he's working out for us, cuz we needed a break. Nothing else has gone our way.

CrushAlot wrote: I am not sure where you get your information about what the coaches were doing. My understanding was that he was brought back from the d-league because they needed a guy to scrimmage in practice.

yea seriously lol

I'm no Lin fanboy here, but I'm not sure I'm wrong in believing that he may have the potential to start as PG for this Knicks team. Out of desperation for our Knicks' situation, I've done a little bit of research on the kid, and I'm thoroughly impressed by what I've read and seen, albeit a little disturbed by the willingness of pretty much every coach at nearly every level to underestimate him.

Here's a kid who led his high-school team to a 32-1 season and a state championship, who was subsequently named California's High School State Player of the year for his abilities, yet ended up being California's ONLY HS State basketball player in HISTORY who was never offered a Division 1 scholarship.

Here's a kid who was given little choice but to play for a middling Harvard basketball team without a scholarship, but who went on anyways to be named one of 11 finalists for the Bob Cousy Award (Ty Lawson, Raymond Felton, and Kemba Walker were previous winners) broke Ivy League records in almost every individual statistical category, and, in his junior year, become the ONLY NCAA Division 1 player to rank top ten in his conference in scoring (17.8), rebounding (5.5), assists (4.3), steals (2.4), blocked shots (0.6), field goal percentage (0.502), free throw percentage (0.744), and 3 point shot percentage (0.400) simultaneously.

He was also a finalist for the John R. Wooden award his senior year and was picked by ESPN commentator Fran Fraschilla as one of the top 12 most versatile players in college basketball. Keep in mind also that all these accolades were received while playing on a lousy team that had not once in its history been ranked.
Give this kid some damned minutes. He's already shown glimmers of his potential on the Knicks in his limited time here. If you've actually watched Lin playing on the floor the last five games or so, it's obvious that he makes the rest of his unit look substantially better through his effective, if a little raw, true PG play. And his recent stat lines in limited minutes makes Shumpert's and Douglas' (especially Douglas') look rather sad in comparison.

Knicks vs. Houston
Lin: 9 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, 1 steal | 20 minutes|
TD: 7 points, 4 assists, 3 rebounds, 0 steals | 26 minutes|
Shump:11 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds, 1 steal |28 minutes|
Bibby: 0 points, 0 asssits, 0 rebounds, 1 steal |10 minutes|

Knicks vs. Bobcats
Lin: 8 points, 4 assists, 2 rebounds, 0 steals | 6 minutes |
TD: 9 points, 2 assists, 0 rebounds, 0 steals |15 minutes|
Shump: 3 points, 2 assists, 0 rebounds, 2 steals |25 minutes|

While the disparity between Lin's and Douglas + Shumpert's stat lines seems small, when you consider that the latter two have been on the court 3-7x longer to achieve inferior to nearly equal stats as Lin game after game should be rather disheartening for us Knicks fans. And before you go about dismissing Lin's stats as worthless because they're often accrued during "garbage time," consider that when Lin received significant, non-garbage minutes against the Rockets, he:

1) had 3x as many assists as Douglas and 50% more than Shumpert (on fewer minutes).
2) scored more efficiently than either
3) outscored Toney Douglas and out-assisted Shumpert by a factor of 3
4) had no experience playing real minutes and was by far the rawest guy on the floor

Let's throw aside our pre-conceived notions, develop Lin, give him some meaningful time on the floor and he'll regain the confidence and swagger he needs to perform at the high level he's shown he can play at. We'll have a real, creditable PG, and we'll win some damned games for once.

****

For kicks, here are some of Lin's stats in two of his most difficult college games, lest you think that his competition during those years was light:

Against UCONN (a perennial D1 powerhouse):
30 points, 9 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 steals, 3 blocked shots.

Against Boston College (In 2008, right after BC knocked off the No. 1 North Carolina Tarheels):
27 points, 8 assists, and 6 rebounds

Look at those numbers and tell me this kid doesn't have potential. Tell me that, if this guy looked like a more typical NBA baller (being Chinese and having a somewhat boyish appearance probably hurts him), this 6'3-6'4 college superstar PG WOULDN'T have been picked in the first round of his draft class, or that D'antoni by this point in the season WOULDN'T have considered the possibility of placing him as a regular on the second unit.

Comments I hear about Lin not being athletic are completely bogus, lazily made simply because of his ethnicity, or because they haven't really been watching him on the floor. You can't execute deep drives past NBA-caliber defenders as often as Lin does without being athletic. You don't completely dismantle Kemba Walker and the rest of the 2009 UCONN Huskies team single-handedly without being athletic. And you DON'T upstage and outshine #1 draft pick John Wall on both ends of the floor without having substantial athletic ability (look up Jeremy Lin vs. John Wall on youtube if you want some good entertainment).

What the hell has to happen for this guy to get some meaningful minutes?

*Also, watch 0:45-0:55 here. It's definitely on one of the most impressive plays we've see from our knicks in a long time. Rondo just looked completely helpless.
http://www.nba.com/video/games/celtics/ ... index.html

(with props to loweyecue anyway)

"one, two, three and to the fo'
Landry Fields and J Lin is at the do'
(Fact: Lin slept on Fields sofa the night before the game)
Ready to make the rotation so back on up

(Cause you know we're about to rip the court up)
Give Lin the pill first so he can bust like a bubble
Harvard and Stanford together now you know you in trouble...

Ain't nothing but a L thang, baby
Two intelligent guards so we ain't lazy
Cablevision is the label that pays me
Indefatiguable, so please don't try to catch this

But um, back to the situation at hand
Perfection is perfected, so I'mma let em understand
From two yoot guards perspective
And before we dig out a losing streak we have to be more reflexive

You never know, we could be puttin the ball in yo' hand
And losing yo' man - at the same time winning BACK Knicks fans
Now you know we ain't with that one on one sh#t, Captain Melo
Ain't no star good enough to carry a squad while we up in it

(Yeah) and that's realer than Red "Real-Deal" Holzman with 512
And now you doubters and haters can go to hell
Well, if it's good enough to get broke off a proper dunk
I'll throw a no-look to Tyson Chandler for some of that that funky stuff

Time for The Emmy Award Winning (dramatic pause) Lin and Landry Show

earthmansurfer wrote:

Markji wrote:I think Lin was in "the Zone" last night. Awesome. He controlled the game and Deron Williams for the last quarter.
Lin highlights from the Nets game. When he drives, he uses his body so well to protect the ball. Also he is ambidextrous. Beautiful to watch a Knick's guard do this.

Incredible highlight. Now I know I didn't imagine last night.
He is really ambidextrous?

DID MY PLANE COME BACK TO A PARALLEL UNIVERSE?!?!

Because "Lin is a D-League scrub" is some of the last commentary I remember from this site before boarding my plane. Amazing.

So proud of this kid, I was really rooting for him. I don't have time to comb the boards right now to catch up, but I trust JCrusher started a "Man Up, My Bad" thread?