Before every one jumps off the boat, knicks fans need to keep things in mind. It's not about this year maybe not evern next year, it's about the future of the knicks and the direction they take to get there.

Under Layden and Chaney we were in a downward spiral. it's not debatable (playa) check the wins and losses. And with the contracts and unwanted players we were stuck with the team we had.

Now we loss some games and knicks fans are seeing past the mirage of a 5 game winning streak, but we have people actively making moves in the pursuit of Winning Games, and no longer just selling out the arena ,and selling dreams of a one legged Mcdeyyesor euro players that dont want it.

We lucked up with a Marbury cause Phoenix threw in the Towel. but Marbury is not a Franchise player, he is a Lower tier Fanchise guy. He cant completely Turn around a Team like a Tim duncan. you will find no bigger marbury Fan , And i am so happy we got him but the knicks need at least another Allstar to emerge, even in the EAST. And now rid of some contracts and now we have some players with some talent at least we have guys we can trade.


remember it''s about our Future, ignore the propaganda from fools like playa.

Well said ARES and thank you very much. All you freaking clowns should stop acting like this is the end!

We are still in the playoffs! Calm down and wait for a few more games. We are going to hit .500 this year for sure. I'm not calling you guys bandwagoneers. I'm just telling you guys to chill out and watch a few more games before saying its all over and we should all just go home.

I agree with you.But we also had something good going on here for the past month or so.and it was disrupted by the change; that i feel could have waited until the end of the season; unless we were getting a big time player in return. This is not about being a frontrunner or bandwagon or like hardcore says Van Horn Club.No its about being tired of losing.

wake up! we have a 100MM payroll that will increase next year with an OLDER team.
We traded KVh for TT who is simply not in the same calber of talent. this club couldve done damage in the playoffs with KVH--we traded a starter for a bench player no knock on Tim Thomas but hes just not as good as KVH or really even that close.

You DONT INCREASE payroll and bring on guys with max contracts to rebuild. You rebuild by dropping payroll acquiring younger players and picks. This is SUPPOSED to be a win now team--what business --whether it be an ice cream shop to a pro basketball team-would EVER take on MORE expense without the desired results of more revenue?

If we did not take on Malike Rose for KT because of $$$$ considerationsp[which is understandable] without draft picks or the use of using more money for an MLE--this IS the team--you dont have rookies here Tim Thomas IS a 7 year VET and Nazr is 5. these are not young guys--and on topof that Thomas contract expires in two years.

this was a blunder a HUGE step back and you are just kidding yourself if you believe anything different

we will make the playoffs but who cares if we back in with a sub 500 record I know I dont making the playofs below 500 shouldnt be allowed.

Briggs....mighty fine post indeed.

Posted by TheSage:

Do any of you think we would have lost both games if we had another shot maker. Oh yeah we have another shot maker waiting to heal completely for the stretch run. Did any of you think wew weren't going to take time to adjust. BTW Thomas is 26-GM's salivate at his talent and shake their heads at his production but maybe, just maybe Wilkens, Aguire and IT can bring it out and in the meantime maybe he can keep opposing SFs from running past. Stay cool Stay calm

It was a Downgrade. Definitely in the short run, it made us a weaker team. We got rid of TWO shooters too-- we've lost two straight games for lack of scoring when Doleac and Van Horn were thriving under Marbury's direction. It was a gamble. It's starting to look like IT lost this one.

You guys also need to remember that ANdre Miller pretty much ****ed things up. Because Zeke had an arrangement worked out with ATL to Waive Doleac, and even negotiated a contract.

But again.... when Houston gets back... We will be an OVERALL better team. But not until he gets back

Posted by jazz74:

Posted by BRIGGS:

wake up! we have a 100MM payroll that will increase next year with an OLDER team.
We traded KVh for TT who is simply not in the same calber of talent. this club couldve done damage in the playoffs with KVH--we traded a starter for a bench player no knock on Tim Thomas but hes just not as good as KVH or really even that close.

You DONT INCREASE payroll and bring on guys with max contracts to rebuild. You rebuild by dropping payroll acquiring younger players and picks. This is SUPPOSED to be a win now team--what business --whether it be an ice cream shop to a pro basketball team-would EVER take on MORE expense without the desired results of more revenue?

If we did not take on Malike Rose for KT because of $$$$ considerationsp[which is understandable] without draft picks or the use of using more money for an MLE--this IS the team--you dont have rookies here Tim Thomas IS a 7 year VET and Nazr is 5. these are not young guys--and on topof that Thomas contract expires in two years.

this was a blunder a HUGE step back and you are just kidding yourself if you believe anything different

we will make the playoffs but who cares if we back in with a sub 500 record I know I dont making the playofs below 500 shouldnt be allowed.

is'nt timmy and nazr younger than van horn and doleac? i see where you are coming from. we needed outside shooting and van horn, i have to admit, had a great season for us doing that. but the fact remains that we are STILL sixth seed and after the sacremento game every other game should be winnable. we also can't gaurantee which van horn we will have in the off-season. as far as tim thomas ability goes, he was a good outside shooter but i think zeke got him for two reasons: post up ability and athleticism. he provides those two that van horn can't. remember, tim was used to a system in milwakke and now he is adjusting. it will take some time. maybe the timing was a little off but i think this is still the right deal. naz is an athletic center who WILL get better. he stays in the post ( something doleac does'nt do on a consistent basis) which is something we need.the big concern is having houston out for a long time. that will hurt us more than anything else.

If we start winning.I'd be the 1st to admit that i was wrong. The #1 priority is for the Knicks to win.

Posted by ARES:

Before every one jumps off the boat, knicks fans need to keep things in mind. It's not about this year maybe not evern next year, it's about the future of the knicks and the direction they take to get there.

Under Layden and Chaney we were in a downward spiral. it's not debatable (playa) check the wins and losses. And with the contracts and unwanted players we were stuck with the team we had.

Now we loss some games and knicks fans are seeing past the mirage of a 5 game winning streak, but we have people actively making moves in the pursuit of Winning Games, and no longer just selling out the arena ,and selling dreams of a one legged Mcdeyyesor euro players that dont want it.

We lucked up with a Marbury cause Phoenix threw in the Towel. but Marbury is not a Franchise player, he is a Lower tier Fanchise guy. He cant completely Turn around a Team like a Tim duncan. you will find no bigger marbury Fan , And i am so happy we got him but the knicks need at least another Allstar to emerge, even in the EAST. And now rid of some contracts and now we have some players with some talent at least we have guys we can trade.


remember it''s about our Future, ignore the propaganda from fools like playa.

great post ares.....well said..

Posted by BRIGGS:

wake up! we have a 100MM payroll that will increase next year with an OLDER team.
We traded KVh for TT who is simply not in the same calber of talent. this club couldve done damage in the playoffs with KVH--we traded a starter for a bench player no knock on Tim Thomas but hes just not as good as KVH or really even that close.

You DONT INCREASE payroll and bring on guys with max contracts to rebuild. You rebuild by dropping payroll acquiring younger players and picks. This is SUPPOSED to be a win now team--what business --whether it be an ice cream shop to a pro basketball team-would EVER take on MORE expense without the desired results of more revenue?

If we did not take on Malike Rose for KT because of $$$$ considerationsp[which is understandable] without draft picks or the use of using more money for an MLE--this IS the team--you dont have rookies here Tim Thomas IS a 7 year VET and Nazr is 5. these are not young guys--and on topof that Thomas contract expires in two years.

this was a blunder a HUGE step back and you are just kidding yourself if you believe anything different

we will make the playoffs but who cares if we back in with a sub 500 record I know I dont making the playofs below 500 shouldnt be allowed.

Briggs, I respect your post that this last post is a bunch of BS.. first of all, I am all for rebuilding but you must have a player to rebuild around. We have that in steph, mission accomplished.. next we got rid of past their primes overbaid bums like spoon, eisley, an injured dice and some euro prospects. To say that our PR is going up is not true. In the moochie deal we saved money, TT's contract is less than KVH and don't give me years, KVH has a player option that he sure as hell will exercise because no on will give him 15 mil a year anymore.... Penny will be in his last year next year and teams will drool over his expiring deal. If you look at it we have basically two long max contracts, that is steph( who is worth it at age 27) and Houston which is a forgone conclusion. We got younger with guys like TT, nazr, Dermarr Johnson, we have young guys in sweetney, Frank williams, othella has a good contract and KT deal is expiring the end of this year. Now tell me briggs, how are we getting old, our team on the average just got about 4 years younger than the one we had. and how is our Payroll going up tell me briggs?

Good point, Daf. IMO that was a major factor in why Isiah made the trade. He's going to bring that same playoff production out of TT on a nightly basis during the remainder of the season.


[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 02/23/2004 19:07:34]