Right now, Knicks are missing the point
February, 3, 2012
Feb 3
1:12
AM ET

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By Ian Begley

Which point guard hurt the Knicks more on Thursday night: Derrick Rose or Toney Douglas?

Rose scored 32 points and had a game-high 13 assists, going off for 15 points in the pivotal fourth quarter. So you certainly can make a strong argument for the 2010-11 MVP.

But Douglas hurt the Knicks nearly as much as Rose did, giving them next to nothing in 15 minutes on the floor.

He led a second unit that was outscored 25-6 by Chicago, turned the ball over three times, missed five of seven shots and was routinely torched by Rose.

AP Photo/Kathy WillensDerrick Rose gave the Knicks a good look at what they sorely lack.

"He struggled a bit tonight," Mike D'Antoni said after his team lost for the 10th time in 12 games.

It's not fair to put Thursday's loss all on Douglas. Iman Shumpert had his hands full with Rose and had four turnovers in an otherwise solid game (10 points, eight assists).

And of course, the Knicks (8-14) had a chance to win with 12 seconds to play but Amare Stoudemire missed an open 3.

Still, it's hard to ignore the discrepancy at point guard on the Garden floor Thursday night.

Between Rose and C.J. Watson, Bulls points guards had 44 points and 13 assists (all from Rose) and four turnovers. Knicks point guards combined for 16 points, 10 assists and seven turnovers.

"We've just got to do a better job of getting the ball down and not turning it over. Without a doubt," D'Antoni said.

The Knicks turned it over 11 times in the second quarter, leading to 13 Chicago points.

Their worst stretch came late in the second quarter. New York trailed by four with 3:30 to play before halftime. Four turnovers and three missed shots later, the Knicks were down 13 -- the Bulls' largest lead of the night.

"Other than that bad flurry, we did OK," D'Antoni said.

You can make an argument that that bad flurry buried the Knicks. And it's bad flurries like that one -- which could have been avoided if New York had a capable point guard on the floor -- that've been killing the Knicks all season.

New York entered play Thursday night averaging 18.9 assists per game (23rd in the NBA) and 17 turnovers (30th in the league).

It's clear that they haven't found a suitable replacement for Chauncey Billups at the point. Billups was axed via the amnesty clause to create cap space to acquire Tyson Chandler.

The Knicks were hoping to get by with Douglas at point guard and Carmelo Anthony serving as a point forward of sorts. So far, that hasn't worked out. Anthony had four turnovers on Thursday and Douglas had three in just 15 minutes.

The Knicks are hoping that 32-year-old veteran Baron Davis can cure all of their problems at the point. But he hasn't been healthy enough to take the floor.

"We're not going to put him out there until he's at least 100 percent," D'Antoni said.

Until then, the Knicks will be a team without a point guard.

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/10716/missing-the-point

It's funny that they never ask the question of whether Lin could help. I know that wasn't the focus, but no media guys seem to be asking about Lin. I think Lin suffers from a lack of respect overall. It's almost like there's some Asian PG bias or something . He's untested, but he certainly looks like he's got all the talent he needs to help the team. I don't think they're very confident in Lin's defense. We tend to overlook that, but it could be an issue. I understand that TD is more of a fixture here and that he's gonna get the benefit of the doubt and a much longer leash, but at some point i'd like to see what Lin would do. Hopefully tonight we'll see him or tomorrow.

nixluva wrote:It's sad but so true. You can't win if you turn it over. Doesn't matter what sport mistakes kill you. The thing is that most of them are unforced errors. It's just dumb decisions. Rather than keep your dribble until you can make the simple pass. Our players seem to panic with the ball. Also one thing they really didn't stress is that our guards aren't making enough drives into the paint. It's like they're allergic to the paint or something. I saw a ton of opportunities for Shump to drive strong to the hole, but he didn't take them. He's thinking too much. If Shump ever get's fully confident in running the show, he can be a very effective player at the point.

It's funny that they never ask the question of whether Lin could help. I know that wasn't the focus, but no media guys seem to be asking about Lin. I think Lin suffers from a lack of respect overall. It's almost like there's some Asian PG bias or something . He's untested, but he certainly looks like he's got all the talent he needs to help the team. I don't think they're very confident in Lin's defense. We tend to overlook that, but it could be an issue. I understand that TD is more of a fixture here and that he's gonna get the benefit of the doubt and a much longer leash, but at some point i'd like to see what Lin would do. Hopefully tonight we'll see him or tomorrow.

Glad to see that you are finally agreeing with us NixLuva. Can't agree more than what misterearl said about Lin's ability to penetrate. Like many have said, Dantoni has a problem with being stubborn and his "ego". He just can't admit he is wrong and open a chance when players stashed in his doghouse deserves a clear chance to contribute. Lin's penetration would still need players to hit the shots, as they will get better looks. But his penetration, is successful, TC/Amare and our BIGS, would also be able to sneak in.
I would love to add Dragic and what he brings with his size over Nash. Nash is great offensively but he would be another weak link to our defense which will be looked to be exploited in day in and out. At this point, Nash also would command more than the MLE as he looks like he would be able to play at this pace for at least another 2 years.

I am not interested in Kidd, without the ability to penetrate anymore. He is a still a great passer and leader at this point, but another player has to be able to penetrate, create their own shot, to mesh efficiently with him. Looking at Dallas without Kidd now, you can see Dallas being a better overall team....

Toney Douglas should never, EVER be assigned to bring the ball upcourt again, ever, forever.

Last night he picked up his dribble about five feet from halfcourt. Did anyone catch it?

"Toney Douglas played terribly. He did a semi-passable job against Rose, but shot just 2-7, recorded zero assists, and committed some of the most egregious turnovers I've ever seen. At one point, he drove under the basket and attempted one of those hockey passes that goes behind the goal to a guy on the other side. Only that's illegal in basketball and it was just out of bounds and a turnover." - Posting and Toasting

That single non-move was an affront to EVERY person who has ever dribbled a basketball on a playground within the five boroughs. It is an insult to the fond hoops memories of Rafer "Skip To My Lou" Alston, John "The Destroyer" Hammond, Luther "Ticky" Burden, Dean Meminger, Nate Archibald and Dwayne "Pearl" Washington.

Douglas' play at guard is an affront to humanity. It is an insult to all New Yorkers, wherever they may reside.

Somewhere, Clyde Frazier is trying to keep from laughing during a telecast.

misterearl wrote:Just Say No

Toney Douglas should never, EVER be assigned to bring the ball upcourt again, ever, forever.

Last night he picked up his dribble about five feet from halfcourt. Did anyone catch it?

"Toney Douglas played terribly. He did a semi-passable job against Rose, but shot just 2-7, recorded zero assists, and committed some of the most egregious turnovers I've ever seen. At one point, he drove under the basket and attempted one of those hockey passes that goes behind the goal to a guy on the other side. Only that's illegal in basketball and it was just out of bounds and a turnover." - Posting and Toasting

That single non-move was an affront to EVERY person who has ever dribbled a basketball on a playground within the five boroughs. It is an insult to the fond hoops memories of Rafer "Skip To My Lou" Alston, John "The Destroyer" Hammond, Luther "Ticky" Burden, Dean Meminger, Nate Archibald and Dwayne "Pearl" Washington.

Douglas' play at guard is an affront to humanity. It is an insult to all New Yorkers, wherever they may reside.

Somewhere, Clyde Frazier is trying to keep from laughing during a telecast.

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Either TD has been killing Lin in practice, or D'Antoni is trying to up TD's value(somehow?) for a potential trade...not sure, but either way Lin deserves at least 10-15 minutes a game.

if anyone ever trades for toney douglas, they should be banned from the NBA for all time.

remember when there was a time we thought we could trade toney and turiaf for OJ MAYO? LOL. sigh.

Would love to have OJ MAYO lol

Nalod wrote:TD is new flavor of the blame month.

TD is the best we got until otherwise proven.

THis is not a good place to be, but its where we are.

I think everyone would love to see Lin do well, but he really has not had the practice time and no camp to learn in.

Can't throw him out until he is ready.

Lets hope when push comes to shove, he sticks and we waive Bibby or Balky.

I really can't believe we wasted a roster spot on Mike Bibby...Godawful! Could've sign any young point, undrafted or otherwise..ARGGH

misterearl wrote:Just Say No

Toney Douglas should never, EVER be assigned to bring the ball upcourt again, ever, forever.

Last night he picked up his dribble about five feet from halfcourt. Did anyone catch it?

"Toney Douglas played terribly. He did a semi-passable job against Rose, but shot just 2-7, recorded zero assists, and committed some of the most egregious turnovers I've ever seen. At one point, he drove under the basket and attempted one of those hockey passes that goes behind the goal to a guy on the other side. Only that's illegal in basketball and it was just out of bounds and a turnover." - Posting and Toasting

That single non-move was an affront to EVERY person who has ever dribbled a basketball on a playground within the five boroughs. It is an insult to the fond hoops memories of Rafer "Skip To My Lou" Alston, John "The Destroyer" Hammond, Luther "Ticky" Burden, Dean Meminger, Nate Archibald and Dwayne "Pearl" Washington.

Douglas' play at guard is an affront to humanity. It is an insult to all New Yorkers, wherever they may reside.

Somewhere, Clyde Frazier is trying to keep from laughing during a telecast.

It's funny but I got spammed here for saying that during the offseason. There were all these excuses for him but, now I feel vindicated.

The guy seems to have even regressed IQ wise. How smart do you have to be to realize that, if your running the point you don't run around in dumb circles before chucking up a bad shot without Amare OR Melo touching the ball. Guy need to have his role more sharply defined as in...your the 3rd or 4th option dummy meaning, you don't shoot the ball unless the 3guys ahead of you touch it first.