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Man, looks like Thomas messed up big time with this trade
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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2/23/2004  4:56 PM
That poll means nothing. In fact, it's rather easy to tweak IE so someone can repeatedly vote on those Daily News polls. This is not politics, where skewed polls are used in order to influence weak-minded individuals.

As for Isiah, he did the RIGHT thing.

I am STILL glad that KVH was traded, and feel fortunate to not be fickle where 3 games would sway my opinion. TT will shut the haters up and prove the doubters wrong, as will Nazr Mohammed. I expect the KVH fans to jump on this 2-game skid as a way to make their petty emotions seem legitimate.

It would be alot easier for just root for the Bucks if they like KVH so damn much.

I am still ROOTING for my Knicks and for Isiah, aka Messiah Thomas, to keep doing his thing to make the team better, to hell with whoever wants to cry and whine about it.


Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
AUTOADVERT
VDesai
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2/23/2004  5:06 PM
Please...don't make it seem as those that are crticizing this trade are not rooting for the best for the KNicks. There are obviously concerns here that need be discussed. I like Nazr a lot and I think he will pan out if we give him the right amount of minutes. But there are a lot of red flags with a player like Tim Thomas.
raven
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2/23/2004  5:15 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:


I am still ROOTING for my Knicks and for Isiah, aka Messiah Thomas, to keep doing his thing to make the team better, to hell with whoever wants to cry and whine about it.

Confusion here. Rooting doesn't mean saying amen to all IT does. Human being he is, so he can make mistakes.

Trapped in the hype, i guess he didn't have a lot of choices except trying to strike gold again.

I'm starting to understand why he crashed a few planes already. Gambling with your balls is brave and can bring fun, but as in the casino, you'll end up loosing all you have.

Sincerly hope I'm wrong.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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2/23/2004  5:28 PM
No, it's not confusing at all. I am not saying that IT can't make a mistake, but history shows that his moves usually pay off (as in the upside). I am also saying that 3 games in is too short a length of time for intelligent fans to conclude that this was a bad trade. Only those LayDown loyalists and KVH fans would do such a thing.

Personally, I wanted KVH gone since he got here. We are better off without him, in both the short and long term IMO. Isiah trading him and bolstering our front line a bit is a step in a right direction.
We need multi-faceted players with upside, which KVH was traded for.

Keep up the good work, Isiah!

Amen.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
raven
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2/23/2004  5:39 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

No, it's not confusing at all. I am not saying that IT can't make a mistake, but history shows that his moves usually pay off (as in the upside). I am also saying that 3 games in is too short a length of time for intelligent fans to conclude that this was a bad trade.

I agree with most of what you said. 3 games is not a lot, yet we already knew when steph arrived how good he was. Only thing i know about TT is that nobody praises him for anything except his potential. Please tell me hardcoreknickstuffy, how does "7 yrs veteran" happens to appear in the same sentence as "potential" ?
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Only those LayDown loyalists and KVH fans would do such a thing.

I dunno who you're talking about. I hated the spree trade though it was a logical choice. I welcomed KVH as we was a knick and fought for us. How any heartless games will you need to accept the fact that TT is worse than what we had ? Or maybe you're just a vanhorn hater or blind IT loyalist who say amen to everything ?
Personally, I wanted KVH gone since he got here. We are better off without him, in both the short and long term IMO. Isiah trading him and bolstering our front line a bit is a step in a right direction.
We need multi-faceted players with upside, which KVH was traded for.

I really hope you're right. Only time will tell but be sure that I would back my opinion about the trade.
BRIGGS
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2/23/2004  6:32 PM
I think a lot of people underestimated kVH. KVH was a VERY good fit for this team. He gave us length that we havent had, he gave us a solid 2-3 option--sometimes first as a scorer and solid rebounder. We were fortunate to acquire him. That was the best move of the Laydumb era.
When we traded him, we really--more than other teams who made moves changed the dynamics of the team--worse than chemistry. KVH was relied upon as one of the top 3 scorers who can get his own shot and made it much harder for teams to match up with us. He really is hard to guard.

I'm not saying anything bad about Tim Thomas, but he plays small for 6-10 240 and he isnt in the same skill bracket as KVH nor does he have the same toughness that KVH had. TT is a solid bench player a 6-7 type player who can play well for 24 minutes or so. This was his primary role for the Bucks nearly his entire carer.

What the Knicks did was trade for a lesser player and expect better performance and it is not likely to happen.

I dont *mind* going after Nazr with doleac. That wouldve been fine with me IF we kept Van Horn. But giving up both--both who were pivotal in our offense as shooters--replacing them with a banger and a pseudo 3-4 who doesnt have a defined game--well your offense is going to suffer.


This is just making the Marbury trade worse and worse on us. we have no money to spend, no assets to trade and a very strange team with H2O perhaps permanently hurt.


we did get marbury but
hardaway
Norris
Thomas
Nazr
who cost 31mm+ per arent cogs who are going to win you anything and we are STUCK with these dudes

IF KT leaves and we are unable to spend $$$$$$--we have a 100MM dollar payroll already--we will be a lottery team next year when the east improves.

Im sorry but i think I was right, the marbury trade killed us for yeasr because it boxed us in.
Id rather have our first round pick Lampe and just trade ward and Mcdyess to atlanta for rahim and Ratliff

RIP Crushalot😞
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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2/23/2004  6:50 PM
Posted by raven:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

No, it's not confusing at all. I am not saying that IT can't make a mistake, but history shows that his moves usually pay off (as in the upside). I am also saying that 3 games in is too short a length of time for intelligent fans to conclude that this was a bad trade.

I agree with most of what you said. 3 games is not a lot, yet we already knew when steph arrived how good he was. Only thing i know about TT is that nobody praises him for anything except his potential. Please tell me hardcoreknickstuffy, how does "7 yrs veteran" happens to appear in the same sentence as "potential" ?

Some players go their whole careers without realizing their potential. That said, anyone, even a seven-year veteran, could still have gone though his career and not tap into his potential.

There's your sentence. I hope that cleared up your stuffiness.

Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Only those LayDown loyalists and KVH fans would do such a thing.

I dunno who you're talking about. I hated the spree trade though it was a logical choice. I welcomed KVH as we was a knick and fought for us. How any heartless games will you need to accept the fact that TT is worse than what we had ? Or maybe you're just a vanhorn hater or blind IT loyalist who say amen to everything ?

I have never been fond of KVH, before, during or after he was a Knick. Check the archives, newbie. LOL I am a loyalist to improvement, and ANY regime that provides it. The last regime led the team downward. Isiah has a vision that is becoming more of a reality every day. Two games tell me that we played TWO games. That's it. Slump? Yeah, but KVH damn sure was NOT the heart of this team. I don't have to be blind to be an Isiah loyalist. Anyone with functional brains and eyes can see the positive changes that he's made. No, it does not take 3 games (notice how the fickle ones / LayDown fans / KVH sympathizers always forget about the Detroit game LMAO!) for a team to gel after a trade. I guess some of us have a hard time getting a grip on that fact.

The funny thing is that you sound like you are a little offended by my post. I wasn't referring to you directly, but if you're getting defensive, I guess I just exposed another poster who falls under one of those categories. If the shoe fits, get in where you fit in, fella.
Personally, I wanted KVH gone since he got here. We are better off without him, in both the short and long term IMO. Isiah trading him and bolstering our front line a bit is a step in a right direction.
We need multi-faceted players with upside, which KVH was traded for.

I really hope you're right. Only time will tell but be sure that I would back my opinion about the trade.

From the way you replied to my post, that last line doesn't seem too sincere. LOL

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 02/23/2004 18:52:54]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
NYKBocker
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2/23/2004  11:44 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

No, it's not confusing at all. I am not saying that IT can't make a mistake, but history shows that his moves usually pay off (as in the upside). I am also saying that 3 games in is too short a length of time for intelligent fans to conclude that this was a bad trade. Only those LayDown loyalists and KVH fans would do such a thing.

Personally, I wanted KVH gone since he got here. We are better off without him, in both the short and long term IMO. Isiah trading him and bolstering our front line a bit is a step in a right direction.
We need multi-faceted players with upside, which KVH was traded for.

Keep up the good work, Isiah!

Amen.

Aren't you contradicting yourself? 3 days is too short for a conclusion but you concluded from day one that KVH was better off gone.

I beleive everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect yours. I wish that you can show the same courtesy to everyone else.

I root for my Knicks no matter who is playing for them. I just think that Zeke made a mistake on this one. I hope that I am wrong.
simrud
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2/24/2004  12:17 AM
The problem with this trade is that we lost one of our main advantages, rebounding. The past two games, the ones Tim Thomas started, we have been murdred on the glass. With Van Horn we had 3 gusy capable of gettin 10 boards on any given night. We outrebounded people, got more posesions, put up more shots, gave up less. Now that is all gone. We were supposed to become a better running team. There has not been a single fastbreak so far. You know why? Cause you need to get long rebounds to start a fast break and we havent been doing that. Who gets longs bounds? The SF primarily and a smaller percentage the guards do. Who is the SF now? TT. He can't board, why nobody knows, but I'v noticed he is just lazy. If we sign Sheed in the offseason and let Thomas walk, then tradin for TT is OK, also counting on Houston to return next season. He would be fine as a 4 option, and with Sheed he would not need to rebound nearly as much. Plus we'd have inside and out game that does not rely on the fastbreak. First of all that is a lot of ifs, second of all this season we got much much worse. And by the way, Doleac is better the Nazr, all the guy dose is board, Doleac was doing that and much more. All in all an awful trade, and I say it as a big Iseah supporet, but there is no deying he messed this one up unless the above mentioned big ifs work out.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
technomaster
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2/24/2004  12:52 AM
Sheed's not a great rebounder or shooter; however, he's a proficient player in the post, when he wants to be that is.

Tim Thomas is giving me nightmares about Charles Smith.

[Edited by - technomaster on 02/24/2004 00:53:29]
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
raven
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2/24/2004  4:01 AM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:
Posted by raven:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

No, it's not confusing at all. I am not saying that IT can't make a mistake, but history shows that his moves usually pay off (as in the upside). I am also saying that 3 games in is too short a length of time for intelligent fans to conclude that this was a bad trade.

I agree with most of what you said. 3 games is not a lot, yet we already knew when steph arrived how good he was. Only thing i know about TT is that nobody praises him for anything except his potential. Please tell me hardcoreknickstuffy, how does "7 yrs veteran" happens to appear in the same sentence as "potential" ?

Some players go their whole careers without realizing their potential. That said, anyone, even a seven-year veteran, could still have gone though his career and not tap into his potential.

There's your sentence. I hope that cleared up your stuffiness.

No it didn't. I may have misunderstood your words, but i won't be happy only cause TT still has a chance to be a player in this league.
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Only those LayDown loyalists and KVH fans would do such a thing.

I dunno who you're talking about. I hated the spree trade though it was a logical choice. I welcomed KVH as we was a knick and fought for us. How any heartless games will you need to accept the fact that TT is worse than what we had ? Or maybe you're just a vanhorn hater or blind IT loyalist who say amen to everything ?

I have never been fond of KVH, before, during or after he was a Knick. Check the archives, newbie. LOL I am a loyalist to improvement, and ANY regime that provides it. The last regime led the team downward. Isiah has a vision that is becoming more of a reality every day. Two games tell me that we played TWO games. That's it. Slump? Yeah, but KVH damn sure was NOT the heart of this team. I don't have to be blind to be an Isiah loyalist. Anyone with functional brains and eyes can see the positive changes that he's made. No, it does not take 3 games (notice how the fickle ones / LayDown fans / KVH sympathizers always forget about the Detroit game LMAO!) for a team to gel after a trade. I guess some of us have a hard time getting a grip on that fact.

Please read again what i said. never did i praise the last regime. I am just honnest enough to accept the fact that IT did a mistake this time, though I backed everything he did before.

The funny thing is that you sound like you are a little offended by my post. I wasn't referring to you directly, but if you're getting defensive, I guess I just exposed another poster who falls under one of those categories. If the shoe fits, get in where you fit in, fella.

Confusion here again stuffie. Think that foreigners do not necessarily have the same command on english than you, which may lead to that kind of perception from your side. I fully respect your opinion, though over the past 2 yrs, I did not agree a lot of times with it
Personally, I wanted KVH gone since he got here. We are better off without him, in both the short and long term IMO. Isiah trading him and bolstering our front line a bit is a step in a right direction.
We need multi-faceted players with upside, which KVH was traded for.

I really hope you're right. Only time will tell but be sure that I would back my opinion about the trade.

From the way you replied to my post, that last line doesn't seem too sincere. LOL

Wrong again. This line is the only thing I'm sure about. May you be right about the trade (which I sincerly hope), I would not try to hide the fact that I disagreed with the trade. My opinion, is that changing for the sake of changing is bad. Changing for improving is what i wish, and not what i see in that trade.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 02/23/2004 18:52:54]
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Man, looks like Thomas messed up big time with this trade
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