it seems like lunacy reigns supreme in here especially with playa.

first of all this team was not winning a championship with KVH at small forward and Doleac at backup center. Zeke made changes to create a better fit for marbury. TT is a good player, the knicks right now are playing bad. In time we will see that TT and nazr are better fits for what we want to do. I guess sheed sucks since detroit lost 2 games since he arrived.....

I wonder about some knicks fans....

Posted by tkf:

it seems like lunacy reigns supreme in here especially with playa.

first of all this team was not winning a championship with KVH at small forward and Doleac at backup center. Zeke made changes to create a better fit for marbury. TT is a good player, the knicks right now are playing bad. In time we will see that TT and nazr are better fits for what we want to do. I guess sheed sucks since detroit lost 2 games since he arrived.....

I wonder about some knicks fans....

TT is not as good as KVH period. basketball fans know this, and the stats speak of this. how is TT a better fit?well he can't shoot outside as well as KVH,and he cant penetrate as well either. so on offense that is not true. on defense he plays soft but since he has more size i'd say he and kvh are about equal. rebounding?again tt is very soft and at best you could say he is equal to kvh. so no, tt is not a better fit. unless you were planning to have wallace here by the deadline and didnt want kvh to be here to take shots away from wallace. but that didnt happen, and now we got man handled by the jazz and the cavs because marbury is the only scorer left

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't we expected to loose doleac soon ?

He had a 2 yrs contract, so no bird rights, and would have deserved a raise that would have required us to use our MLE to pay him.

At least in that trade, we got something from doleac before he left.

Regarding KVH and TT, I still have faith in I. Thomas because of what he has done before (not the way he has sometimes done it). I sincerly hope he'll be able to light a fire under TT otherwise, we're pretty f..ked. I hated to see KVH traded, but i'll keep on rooting for TT to play well only cause the team needs it.

it sure seems to me that we should have gotten a first or second rounder out of milwaukee with this deal-

they gave up a player they had given up on with a bloated contract (tt) and some scrub they sent to atlanta and got back a player playing nearly to his contract $ in KVH.

IT should have said- give me your first round pick this year! to Milwaukee. Did he ask?

Nazr especially has looked lost out there.

TT was in the post alot in this game and when he was fronted, we couldn't lob it in over the defense-

hopefully with some more practice there will be adjustments made on this that will allow the knicks to exploit the defense if the opposition fronts TT.

Posted by GoNyGoNyGo:

I must say, I am concerned now. This weekend was a complete disaster. The chemistry was gone and can they get it back? The only good is that EVERYONE looked bad so it tells me that it was just a fluke. The whole team was in a funk. As far as the playoffs go, Toronto keeps losing too, so NY is still the 6.

I'm worried too. Really worried. If Houston is out for the year then our abundance of jumpshooter's is going to be our deficiency.

I really really hope this TT for KVH trade works out.

Well... while most of us that Sprewell was an all-around better player, KVH is the more difficult defensive assignment because of his height and ability to shoot. Even when he's not scoring, teams cannot afford to leave him open. The other thing is that when he's motivated, he moves very well without the ball.

They repeatedly say that Tim Thomas has all of the physical tools--- strength, quickness, athleticism to be a superstar. Unfortunately, I think there gets to be a point where after 5-or-so seasons, this is likely all you're ever gonna get.

It's like with our old pal Benoit Benajamin who bounced around the NBA. Fantastic physical specimen, with the prototypical center body. Decent hands, decent footwork, decent quickness, decent range. His focus wasn't always there and the mental side of the game suffered. He'll always be a guy mentioned when you think of players who couldn't give 100% day in and day out.

As far as Tim Thomas goes... his teammates have always spoken highly of him--- that he could be the best player in the NBA if he put his mind to it. This is his 8th year in the NBA. While he's only about to turn 27 in a few days, do you really believe that he'll just turn it on?

We can live with Tim Thomas's erratic outside shot *IF* he could emerge as an efficient post-up threat. By having someone deep in the post who could catch with his back to the basket, it'll give us the spacing we need, regardless of having outside shooters. He's big enough and athletic enough that he should be able to outmuscle SFs, and out-quick PFs and centers with quick catches and moves around the basket.

Unfortunately, he's more comfortable on the perimeter. It's taken him 8 years to get this far (from the paint)... maybe it'll be another 8 years (at age 34) for him to become a threat in the paint.

I'm much more harsh on Tim Thomas than Nazr Mohammed, because what I've seen from both of them indicates that Tim Thomas is not a hard worker, but Nazr is. Both look really bad right now. The difference is that Thomas has been a supremely talented, but somewhat lazy, unintelligent player in the NBA. He has a tendency to really dissapear and just watch the action rather than really go after it, and that troubles me. I hope he can motivated here...I really do. But he needs to give the consistent effort on defense and rebounding. KVH might not have been supremely talented in either of those areas, but he used to give it 100% every night. Thomas has the tools, he needs the consistency and focus. A lot of players sometimes never get it. However, I think having a guy like Mark Aguirre on the coaching staff may help him get it. It's just gonna take a lot of time.

Nazr Mohammed has done about as well as I expected from him in the first couple of games. He's not an offensive center, and normally gets "garbage points," i.e. put backs, easy dunks from in close. He is a very good rebounder and I think he has shown that so far. He's got a big, athletic body at center and he can box out. When he gets more minutes I think you'll see him racking up the boards and putting some points up too. He's not gonna look all that fluid on the offensive end, but I don't think he'll look quite as awkard as Mutumbo when all is said and done.

Their deficiencies are definitely glaring right now, because with Houston out we need shooters and a no.2 scoring option. Let's hope Allan gets back here. I hate having depend on players to recover from injuries though...

Yep, Aguirre seems to be doing a pretty good job with Sweetney. Perhaps he's gonna be a real good tutor for our forwards.

Posted by technomaster:

Regarding Doleac:

For a 15mpg backup, there are few better options in the NBA. He knew his role. As they like to say about these 4-year college "white" players, he's fundamentally sound and "knows how to play the game" meaning that he hits the open jump shot and despite not being blessed with all-world athleticism, knows how to position himself both offensively and defensively.

On offense, in addition to his outside shot he dives to the open spot on the floor for an easy basket or two every game. While relatively easy to guard due to his mediocre athleticism, his man always had to pay attention to him because when left open he will score.

On defense, he puts his body on his man and boxs out. Simple blue collar fundamental methodology. He's not gonna stop a proficient scorer all by himself--- his will impede the scorer's progress long enough for the double-team to arrive. He's not an athletic shotblocker, but an effective positional defender off the bench.

Does Mohammed give us more than this (for 15mpg?!)... well... on defense, because he doesn't block shots he's not necessarily an upgrade over Doleac. He might have tools to be a better defender, but after honing his Xs and Os in Atlanta, do you think he really has been well schooled at playing NBA defense?

Offensively he has no range but can score on a variety of putbacks and other garbage points; Doleac's major offensive weapon was the open mid-range shot, tho he moved well w/o the ball and put himself in a position to score.

Nazr's numbers project better over 40mpg, perhaps making him suitable as a starting PF/C.

well said techno, couldn't agree more about the way doleac approched the game.