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Why the Knicks Still Stink!
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ItalianStallion
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1/28/2012  12:30 AM
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2105538,00.html?sct=nba_t2_a4
AUTOADVERT
JCrusher
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1/28/2012  12:46 AM
ItalianStallion wrote:http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2105538,00.html?sct=nba_t2_a4
Good article. Its a fair article about how we went from cleaning up isiah's mess to starting another
nixluva
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1/28/2012  2:02 AM
For essentially the entire 21st century, a strange, sad problem has bedeviled the NBA: the franchise in its biggest, highest-profile market has been consistently awful. For nine straight seasons, from 2001–02 to 2009–10, the New York Knicks failed to finish above .500. No other NBA team matched that level of futility.
How did this happen? After all, self-centered New Yorkers like to claim, what star free agent wouldn't want to play with the Knicks in Madison Square Garden, the overrated, outdated building dubbed the World's Most Famous Arena? Yet the Knicks, thanks mostly to the mismanagement of former general manager Isiah Thomas, could not afford to sign the best free agents since they wasted so much money and salary-cap space on long-term contracts for ineffective players like Jerome James and Eddy Curry. And when the Knicks shed enough bad contracts to try to sign LeBron James as a free agent in 2010, James spurned the streets of New York for the beaches of Miami.
(See more of Sean Gregory's fearless sports predictions.)
All that was supposed to change on Feb. 21, 2011, when the Knicks completed a trade for four-time All-Star Carmelo Anthony, one of the most prodigious scorers in the league, point guard Chauncey Billups and some spare parts. New York sent Danilo Gallinari, a promising young player from Italy, Raymond Felton, Timofey Mozgov, Wilson Chandler and the team's first-round pick in 2014 to the Denver Nuggets. At the time, the Knicks were 28-26 and Denver was 32-25.
But since that trade, the Knicks have a 21-25 regular-season record, while Denver, thanks in large part to the play of Gallinari, has gone 31-12. This year the Nuggets are 13-5, in second place in the Northwest division. The Knicks finished last season 42-40, and the Boston Celtics swept them in the first round of the playoffs. But 2011–12 has been a disaster for New York, which faces James and the Miami Heat, who are 13-5, on Friday night, Jan. 27. The Knicks are just 7-11 on the year and have lost seven of their past eight games.
So what went wrong this time? You can directly trace New York's current problems back to James' decision. After the Knicks lost out on the high-stakes courtship, they signed Amar'e Stoudemire, an explosive offense player with a history of aching knees, to a five-year, $100 million contract in 2010. But to team owner Jim Dolan, a pariah in the eyes of Knicks fans, that consolation prize was not enough. Still stinging over LeBron's rejection, Dolan craved a marquee player to pack in the fans at MSG. Former Knicks president and general manager Donnie Walsh reportedly did not want to make the Anthony trade, preferring to develop his younger talent. But Dolan insisted that Walsh pull the trigger.
(See more on LeBron James.)
And there, in a nutshell, you have the Knicks' problem: one of the smartest guys in pro basketball over the past few decades was overruled by a clueless team owner. Stoudemire had been outstanding on his own, but Walsh realized what Dolan chose to ignore — that he and Anthony are scoring forwards with redundant, rather than complementary, roles. Sure, James and Dwyane Wade are both guards who like to slash and score. But they mesh because James is one of the best passers in the league. Anthony is a gunner, and he hasn't been a good one this year: he's shooting a career-low 39.4% from the field.
Under coach Mike D'Antoni, the Knicks have never been a stellar defensive team. (The high-octane Phoenix Suns teams D'Antoni coached from 2003 to 2008 also neglected to guard.) To strengthen their defensive muscle, the Knicks traded for Dallas Mavericks center Tyson Chandler, whose grunt work under the boards helped the Mavs take the 2011 title, after the lockout ended in December. The Knicks gave Chandler a four-year, $56 million contract; in order to clear salary-cap space for him, however, the Knicks waived their point guard, Billups, under the one-time amnesty clause included in the new collective-bargaining agreement. Billups' $14.2 million salary for this season no longer counts under the cap, though the Knicks are paying $12.2 million to Billups while his new team, the Los Angeles Clippers, picks up the rest.
So the Knicks are paying $12.2 million to the point guard they so desperately need. Go ahead, pull your hair out, Knicks fans. Without Billups, the team is asking Toney Douglas, who ideally is a shooter from off the bench, to play point guard. With Carmelo and Anthony in the lineup, Landry Fields, ideally a small forward, was shifted to shooting guard — where he is shooting a horrible 21% from three-point range. So for a starting lineup, the Knicks have two guys playing out of position and two All-Stars who have trouble playing with each other.
And it gets worse. When Anthony joined the team, most observers figured offense would be easy and defense the main challenge. Yet in order to compensate for their point-guard deficiencies, the Knicks have asked Anthony to initiate the offense. When he has the ball in his hands, defenses can focus on him. He's better off coming off screens, catching the ball and either quickly shooting or exploding to the basket. "The bottom line is that Carmelo has to think on the floor," says former Knicks point guard Greg Anthony, an NBA TV analyst. "And athletes are at their best when they are comfortable and playing off instinct. If Chauncey was still there, everyone could go back to their natural positions. When you're asking guys to do things that they don't do well, that's a recipe for disaster."
(See more on the NBA.)
The Knicks signed Baron Davis to help at point guard, but he is recovering from a back injury. Even if he comes back healthy, Davis is not known as a pure passer who keeps an offense in rhythm. New York also signed Mike Bibby as a backup point guard. But at this point in the aging Bibby's career, he might not be the best player in your weekend-warrior pickup game.
As if Knicks fans haven't suffered enough, Anthony's former team, Denver, marched into the Garden on Jan. 21 and defeated the Knicks in double overtime, 119-114. Stoudemire did not attempt a shot in the fourth quarter or the first overtime. Anthony took 30 shots, hitting 10 of them; he started the game 3 for 17. Gallinari, the former Knick, had a career-high 37 points; on Jan. 25, the Nuggets signed him to a four-year, $42 million contract extension.
The NBA labor fight was framed as a big-market-vs.-small-market battle. The system needed repairing, the owners said, to give the little guys a chance to make money and compete. But the Anthony debacle shows that not all big-market teams are created equal.
LIST: Top 10 Sports Superstitions.)
Take the Heat and the Knicks. Miami cleared the cap room to catch the big free-agent prize and got him. The Knicks missed out, but instead of staying patient and developing homegrown talent, they made moves to scramble for the second-tier stars. To date, these decisions haven't produced the expected victories. Instead, they've just produced more suffering. And the NBA, which thirsts for a marquee team in its marquee market, and New York fans have seen enough of that.


Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2105538,00.html#ixzz1kjWjXyyU

The information is accurate and it's a good stab at what's wrong, but I don't buy it. Actually WATCHING the games, what you can see is that STAT missed Falton more than people realized he would. Once you get the chemistry with STAT and a PG in the PnR, you want to keep that going, not break it up. That part of the trade was bad. Given the importance of a PG that can run PnR with one of your Stars. Melo and Tyson have a good thing going when they run PnR, but STAT is lacking his partner on the other side of the floor. This team starts to make sense when you stick a capable PG in the middle of the mix.

They talk about Baron like he can't work, but in truth he's less of a chucker than Billups is. Billups has never really been a pure passer. Baron can and does pass, in fact he avg's more assists for his career than Billups. The real problem is that he was injured rather than being ready to go from day one. If he was ready to go then that would've changed everything. I just have a problem with people writing that this is a failed experiment already and evidence of the same kind of mistakes the Knicks have made in the past. This early in the process no one can say for sure that this isn't going to work.

Bonn1997
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1/28/2012  9:10 AM
JCrusher wrote:
ItalianStallion wrote:http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2105538,00.html?sct=nba_t2_a4
Good article. Its a fair article about how we went from cleaning up isiah's mess to starting another

It's not unfair but it's myopic. The problems long predated Isiah and have continued after him. He was a symptom of the problem (ownership) rather than the problem. He is just an easy target.
misterearl
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1/28/2012  9:31 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
JCrusher wrote:
ItalianStallion wrote:http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2105538,00.html?sct=nba_t2_a4
Good article. Its a fair article about how we went from cleaning up isiah's mess to starting another

It's not unfair but it's myopic. The problems long predated Isiah and have continued after him. He was a symptom of the problem (ownership) rather than the problem. He is just an easy target.

Well said Bonn1997. The writer should take a look back at what Isiah inherited.

once a knick always a knick
Vmart
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1/28/2012  9:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/28/2012  9:43 AM
Just need a PG. I don't care what team it is without a PG you aren't winning. Honestly speaking right now Duhon would be an upgrade to what they have right now and he knows MDA system.
knicks1248
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1/28/2012  10:03 AM
The article is for someone thats been out of the country for a
decade..We wittness this entire era with our own 2 eyes..don't need no stinkn beat writer to tell me what i already know.

He should right a suggestion article, point out some ways to improve, players to trade for, ways to tweak the offense..

ES
BRIGGS
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1/28/2012  11:25 AM
Those trades killed us its simple as that we made bad trades franchise killing trades and it locked us into this for years. we need to be the team that trades melo off for 5 pieces then amare and start w chandler at C and work around it i really dont know what to do here because dolan will never stop this
RIP Crushalot😞
loweyecue
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1/28/2012  11:57 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Those trades killed us its simple as that we made bad trades franchise killing trades and it locked us into this for years. we need to be the team that trades melo off for 5 pieces then amare and start w chandler at C and work around it i really dont know what to do here because dolan will never stop this

You know there is help for this type of thing right?
You sound like a red sox fan trying to deal with unresolved issues. Orne out of 84 years of losing.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Bonn1997
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1/28/2012  12:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/28/2012  12:37 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Those trades killed us its simple as that we made bad trades franchise killing trades and it locked us into this for years. we need to be the team that trades melo off for 5 pieces then amare and start w chandler at C and work around it i really dont know what to do here because dolan will never stop this

You're right but the only way I see this happening is if Dolan buys another team and sells the Knicks.
DrAlphaeus
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1/28/2012  1:01 PM
We are fans of a team owned by a cable TV executive, and if we get NY1 on our TVs, we CAN'T currently even watch this abortion of a team.

I'm starting to understand what made DJ flip. There is a good looking Italian fella out there in Denver for those who rather stay in the lower 48.

This team is currently manifesting every worry anti-trade folks had. I just read an old game thread from Nov. 2010 http://mads.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37040&page=1 of us beating the Clippers and I think I teared up a little.

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
CrushAlot
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1/28/2012  1:05 PM
DrAlphaeus wrote:We are fans of a team owned by a cable TV executive, and if we get NY1 on our TVs, we CAN'T currently even watch this abortion of a team.

I'm starting to understand what made DJ flip. There is a good looking Italian fella out there in Denver for those who rather stay in the lower 48.

This team is currently manifesting every worry anti-trade folks had. I just read an old game thread from Nov. 2010 http://mads.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=37040&page=1 of us beating the Clippers and I think I teared up a little.

Those were good times. I remember that game. Amare and Blake were both dunking machines. Hope Amare gets his mojo back soon.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
RonRon
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1/29/2012  2:18 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/29/2012  2:19 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Those trades killed us its simple as that we made bad trades franchise killing trades and it locked us into this for years. we need to be the team that trades melo off for 5 pieces then amare and start w chandler at C and work around it i really dont know what to do here because dolan will never stop this

it won't happen, we aren't about winning. Just as long as we have hopes on competing, that is good enough for Dolan to keep trying till Melo's contract ends.
It's possible they might break the core up, but I can't see them trading both Amare and Melo...

Tyson Chandler is the most solid player for us, unfortunately he doesn't fit without this squad.
He fits with the Pre Melo Knicks....

Why the Knicks Still Stink!

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