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Difference between the Knicks when they were good and now
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BRIGGS
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1/5/2012  2:36 PM
Im not going to use the 70's as an example because they were comprised of pure skill players who were all tough in their own right..

I think there is a lack of toughness and defined roles/slills on the court--this starts from the coaching staff and make its way to the players--and I think it might be 50% mental 50% physical. These teams that MDA has coached--do they play hard and tough? No. When we used to get a FA it was Buck Williams--today that is Steve Novak. Our guards were not all league--but they were smart heady players who could make plays and had gas left in the tank. Taking out Harrelson for a second who I think looks slow for the NBA and shoots 3's we need a couple of more 260 pounders upfront and a big time upgrade from top to bottom on the wing and backcourt. There are few defined roles it seems we are out of position on both sides of the ball. We are laying hopes that Baron Davis can get back to 2 years ago form with a very balky back? This is certainly not a bad team--with the right coach for this team we should be between 3-3/ 4-2 championship caliber---NO. I think its just better to get rid of MDA and see if Phil Jackson(or someone really good) would coach here--Dolan has the cash and let Jackson(or someone else) have a hand in personnel--I think we have some good things maybe a superstar in Anthony a solid C---Im not sure if Amare is a best fit here but certainly hes a great player. I think we have a mish mosh from the coaches to the players--saying we just need to get used to one and another is an excuse.

RIP Crushalot😞
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earthmansurfer
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1/5/2012  2:58 PM
Welcome back.

I think it starts with the coach and he just doesn't have that persona like we saw in our teams (you mentioned) in the past or with current teams like the Bulls. We need to start things with defense and that just isn't happening. I wonder if Stat can really ever play that role.

I say we get a new coach now and if things still don't change, you go ALL OUT to get Howard. I wonder, can Orlando do better than Stat and Chandler? We would be banking on Iman to step things up and hoping he is not in any trade.

I just don't see, minus a Rubio or Nash PG on this team (hell maybe even Baron), how two ISO players are going to lead us anywhere? I'm not saying it can't work but...

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Knixkik
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1/5/2012  3:20 PM
earthmansurfer wrote:Welcome back.

I think it starts with the coach and he just doesn't have that persona like we saw in our teams (you mentioned) in the past or with current teams like the Bulls. We need to start things with defense and that just isn't happening. I wonder if Stat can really ever play that role.

I say we get a new coach now and if things still don't change, you go ALL OUT to get Howard. I wonder, can Orlando do better than Stat and Chandler? We would be banking on Iman to step things up and hoping he is not in any trade.

I just don't see, minus a Rubio or Nash PG on this team (hell maybe even Baron), how two ISO players are going to lead us anywhere? I'm not saying it can't work but...


You can win with 2 players like Melo and Stat. It is all about who you get around them. They started with Chandler, but who else fits? Shumpert is working towards it, but as of right now there are too many holes to fill. Fill them with the right, tough role players and it's a winning combination.
arkrud
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1/5/2012  3:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/5/2012  3:28 PM
I think it is enough of all-outs already.
We went all-out like 10 times in last 5 years and we are still really OUT.
It is time to stop starphucking on players and coaches and start building the team.
I know it is boring business but it is no other way to have something reasonably watchable not talking about contender.
Melo, Chandler and Stat are a good starting point. Stat can be used to bring something we really need also.
All the rest is just a bunch of garbage and unknown entities. It is looooong way to go and many things to do.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
misterearl
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1/5/2012  3:37 PM
Briggs - the current Knicks roster can go 5 deep.

End of story.

once a knick always a knick
nixluva
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1/5/2012  4:01 PM
The 1st step is getting the defensive chemistry fixed. Fix the technical mistakes and tighten it up. Mix in some Zone to change things up and they'll be fine.

The 2nd thing is fix the backcourt. Shump may just move ahead of Fields, tho I worry about Shumps aggressive nature on the starting unit. He's got a very quick trigger and hasn't been looking for his teammates enough IMO, but still he's clearly a better player than Fields and I can understand him starting over him. It's just that Shump seems like a perfect 6th man, where he can come in firing away off the bench.

Gotta get TD to play at a higher level. He's killing the team on both ends right now. None of our big guns is able to get into a groove. STAT, Melo and Tyson can finish plays, but they aren't getting premium looks as often as they should. Hoping and praying for a speedy recovery for B. Diddy. And just so we're clear he's not 2 years removed from playing good BB. Davis was good last year!!! He was at about 13/7 last year between LAC and Cleveland. IMO it's all about health with him.
Panos
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1/5/2012  4:06 PM
misterearl wrote:Briggs - the current Knicks roster can go 53 deep.

End of story.

Fixed
TheGame
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1/5/2012  4:11 PM
Stat and chandler for howard and Turk is a solid trade IMO. Orlando is not going to get much better than that. A team of Davis, imam, Melo, Turk, and Howard would be fairly solid. Howard is a one-man frontcourt. He will handle all the rebounding.
Trust the Process
Bonn1997
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1/5/2012  4:25 PM
Panos wrote:
misterearl wrote:Briggs - the current Knicks roster can go 530 deep.

End of story.

Fixed


Fixed
Panos
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1/5/2012  4:33 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Panos wrote:
misterearl wrote:Briggs - the current Knicks roster can go 530 deep.

End of story.

Fixed


Fixed

That's a bit extreme...
Bonn1997
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1/5/2012  4:38 PM
Panos wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Panos wrote:
misterearl wrote:Briggs - the current Knicks roster can go 530 deep.

End of story.

Fixed


Fixed

That's a bit extreme...


If you're talking about players that it would make sense to try to build a championship team around, I do not think it is. If you're talking about building a team that has the potential to win a few playoff games and be entertaining, then we do have more than zero.
jrodmc
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1/5/2012  5:25 PM
So, six games into the season and...
1) fire the coach. Then have him killed.
2) Everyone from Mike francessa to Johnny watercooler wants Fields skinned and his head on a pole
3) Shump is the answer (never mind he's a rookie who's already been hurt 1 game into the season. and that he's shoot first. I thought missing games made you a bad teammate?
4) Dump the stars and build the team from the NBDL and the draft. Hopefully our great future draft picks will stay with the franchise for 10 years like they used to in the 70's. Oh wait a minute, Debusschere, Lucas and Pearl were all starphucks...hmmmmm maybe times haven't changed all that much...
5) BDavis is the answer. We will get to the next level with another older-than-his-age PG who avg 13/7. Who never won anything. Chips Ahoy! Billups with no rings, anyone?
6) TD is going to turn into StocktonKiddNash any day now.

Give it time boys. I'd rather be getting killed in the rags over wussy defensive effort than wondering what deranged signing IT's going to do to put us out of cap room until 2087.

Enjoy actual putrid basketball for awhile...as opposed to the shit we were dealing with only a few short seasons ago...
Bonn1997
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1/5/2012  5:41 PM
jrodmc wrote:So, six games into the season and...
1) fire the coach. Then have him killed.
2) Everyone from Mike francessa to Johnny watercooler wants Fields skinned and his head on a pole
3) Shump is the answer (never mind he's a rookie who's already been hurt 1 game into the season. and that he's shoot first. I thought missing games made you a bad teammate?
4) Dump the stars and build the team from the NBDL and the draft. Hopefully our great future draft picks will stay with the franchise for 10 years like they used to in the 70's. Oh wait a minute, Debusschere, Lucas and Pearl were all starphucks...hmmmmm maybe times haven't changed all that much...
5) BDavis is the answer. We will get to the next level with another older-than-his-age PG who avg 13/7. Who never won anything. Chips Ahoy! Billups with no rings, anyone?
6) TD is going to turn into StocktonKiddNash any day now.

Give it time boys. I'd rather be getting killed in the rags over wussy defensive effort than wondering what deranged signing IT's going to do to put us out of cap room until 2087.

Enjoy actual putrid basketball for awhile...as opposed to the shit we were dealing with only a few short seasons ago...


Are you categorizing all criticisms of the organization as overreactions to a 6 game sample? Many here have been criticizing the organization since long before the current season started and are not basing our criticisms on solely the results during these 6 games.
CrushAlot
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1/5/2012  5:41 PM
jrodmc wrote:So, six games into the season and...
1) fire the coach. Then have him killed.
2) Everyone from Mike francessa to Johnny watercooler wants Fields skinned and his head on a pole
3) Shump is the answer (never mind he's a rookie who's already been hurt 1 game into the season. and that he's shoot first. I thought missing games made you a bad teammate?
4) Dump the stars and build the team from the NBDL and the draft. Hopefully our great future draft picks will stay with the franchise for 10 years like they used to in the 70's. Oh wait a minute, Debusschere, Lucas and Pearl were all starphucks...hmmmmm maybe times haven't changed all that much...
5) BDavis is the answer. We will get to the next level with another older-than-his-age PG who avg 13/7. Who never won anything. Chips Ahoy! Billups with no rings, anyone?
6) TD is going to turn into StocktonKiddNash any day now.

Give it time boys. I'd rather be getting killed in the rags over wussy defensive effort than wondering what deranged signing IT's going to do to put us out of cap room until 2087.

Enjoy actual putrid basketball for awhile...as opposed to the shit we were dealing with only a few short seasons ago...

I think the point that every team has the tough schedule and shortened training camp has been made a lot. I think the reality is that while in NY D'Antoni's teams never come out of training camp prepared and lose at a horrific rate for the first 15 games or so. I always felt that the Knicks hitting their stride around the 15th game was a combination of having to overcome not having a productive training camp,not being pepared and the coach and players eventually figuring things out by playing games. When problems keep occuring you need to look at the variables involved and attempt to elimintate them to fix the problem. What has been the consistent variable during the four years D'Antoni has been here? This is the same stuff but its a different year with a frontline that should win some of these games on talent alone. However, even though things have changed the one constant hasn't. I think a change should have been made after 09-10 but Walsh wasn't going there. Walsh isn't here anymore and the top assistant was hired by the current gm. Grunwald has no reason to keep or make trades that hurt the franchise to protect D'Antoni. Grunwald is on the clock now also. I think there is a good chance Mike Woodson may be running things soon. He is not my first choice but I think D'Antoni deserved to be fired after 09-10 and nothing has done since has convinced me that he will get this team to win anything significant.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Legend33
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1/5/2012  6:38 PM
D FENCE
crzymdups
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1/5/2012  7:22 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Panos wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Panos wrote:
misterearl wrote:Briggs - the current Knicks roster can go 530 deep.

End of story.

Fixed


Fixed

That's a bit extreme...


If you're talking about players that it would make sense to try to build a championship team around, I do not think it is. If you're talking about building a team that has the potential to win a few playoff games and be entertaining, then we do have more than zero.

uh, tyson chandler was a core member of the 2011 champion Mavs.

¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
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1/5/2012  8:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/5/2012  8:20 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Panos wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Panos wrote:
misterearl wrote:Briggs - the current Knicks roster can go 530 deep.

End of story.

Fixed


Fixed

That's a bit extreme...


If you're talking about players that it would make sense to try to build a championship team around, I do not think it is. If you're talking about building a team that has the potential to win a few playoff games and be entertaining, then we do have more than zero.

uh, tyson chandler was a core member of the 2011 champion Mavs.


Sure, some of these players could play supporting roles on a championship team. I never said otherwise. Chandler for about 25 min (his Dallas role) can be a contributor, especially when he's playing for a contract. That's different from building the team around the player though.
arkrud
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1/6/2012  9:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/6/2012  9:48 AM
When Knicks were good? Last century...
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bonn1997
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1/6/2012  9:50 AM
arkrud wrote:When Knicks were good? Last century...

Yeah, we sound pathetic having to refer back to last century to discuss when the team was good. Even Clippers fans can refer to 2005-6!
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