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There's nothing wrong with the System
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nixluva
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1/3/2012  12:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/3/2012  12:43 AM
It's the execution that is the problem:

Hollinger Stats - Offensive Efficiency
RK TEAM PACE AST TO ORR DRR REBR EFF FG% TS% OFF EFF DEF EFF
1 Denver 97.9 15.4 23.2 23.9 75.4 50.4 52.6 57.4 109.5 104.8
2 San Antonio 94.6 15.9 22.7 24.9 74.6 50.4 52.7 56.7 109.4 102.8
3 Miami 93.2 14.6 23.8 25.2 75.5 51.8 52.4 57.3 109.3 100.7
4 Okl City 95.3 14.4 23.2 27.4 73.6 51.3 50.1 56.1 108.6 104.0
5 New York 98.1 14.9 22.4 24.2 71.9 47.9 51.3 56.1 108.3 106.9
6 Houston 96.9 16.2 22.0 27.4 72.7 50.0 50.3 55.0 108.0 106.2
7 LA Lakers 93.4 15.6 22.0 29.2 72.3 51.5 50.2 54.5 107.9 101.3
8 Dallas 93.4 17.0 23.9 24.1 74.8 50.4 52.5 56.5 107.6 102.3
9 Phoenix 96.8 16.2 23.3 23.7 71.6 47.6 52.2 55.9 107.0 107.4
10 Orlando 93.5 14.3 25.0 26.1 76.9 52.1 52.1 55.5 105.7 99.1

Over the years D'Antoni's teams have been top of the league in efficiency on offense and you guys want him to change what he does. We were top ten with Raymond Felton as our PG! He's no Nash or CP3. He wasn't even considered good based on his performance before he came to NY.

This is where our last 2 PG's rated as passers before they came to the Knicks:

Assists Per Game Leaders - Qualified
RK PLAYER TEAM GP MPG AST APG TO TOPG AP48M AST/TO
1 Steve Nash, PG PHX 81 32.8 892 11.0 295 3.6 16.1 3.02
2 Chris Paul, PG NO 45 38.0 480 10.7 112 2.5 13.5 4.29
3 Deron Williams, PG UTAH 76 36.9 798 10.5 252 3.3 13.7 3.17
4 Rajon Rondo, PG BOS 81 36.6 794 9.8 246 3.0 12.9 3.23
5 Jason Kidd, PG DAL 80 36.0 724 9.1 195 2.4 12.1 3.71
6 LeBron James, SF CLE 76 39.0 651 8.6 261 3.4 10.5 2.49
7 Baron Davis, PG LAC 75 33.6 598 8.0 211 2.8 11.4 2.83
8 Russ Westbrook, PG OKC 82 34.3 652 8.0 268 3.3 11.1 2.43
9 Devin Harris, PG NJ 64 34.7 423 6.6 181 2.8 9.1 2.34
10 Dwyane Wade, SG MIA 77 36.3 501 6.5 252 3.3 8.6 1.99
RK PLAYER TEAM GP MPG AST APG TO TOPG AP48M AST/TO
11 Derrick Rose, PG CHI 78 36.8 469 6.0 217 2.8 7.8 2.16
12 Jose Calderon, PG TOR 68 26.7 404 5.9 99 1.5 10.7 4.08
13 Stephen Curry, PG GS 80 36.2 472 5.9 244 3.1 7.8 1.93
14 Andre Iguodala, SG PHI 82 38.9 472 5.8 218 2.7 7.1 2.17
15 Tyreke Evans, PG SAC 72 37.2 414 5.8 216 3.0 7.4 1.92
16 Bran Jennings, PG MIL 82 32.6 470 5.7 200 2.4 8.4 2.35
17 Darren Collison, PG NO 76 27.8 432 5.7 202 2.7 9.8 2.14
18 Chaun Billups, PG DEN 73 34.1 409 5.6 177 2.4 7.9 2.31
19 Raymond Felton, PG CHA 80 33.0 446 5.6 168 2.1 8.1 2.65

20 Andre Miller, PG POR 82 30.5 445 5.4 173 2.1 8.5 2.57

It's not like we've needed great PG's to be effective. Just anyone DECENT will do. This shows how poorly TD and Bibby have been so far. You can't blow up everything you've been doing because the team gets off to a poor start without a real PG. MDA has to keep coaching TD up and Glen has to decide if some other move needs to be made, but right now they need to keep working to fix the poor execution.

AUTOADVERT
islesfan
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1/3/2012  1:17 AM
Fire Antoni
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
nixluva
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1/3/2012  2:10 AM
islesfan wrote:Fire Antoni

Well look whole crawled out of their hovel. Antoni? The Defense hasn't been bad. It's mainly been bad offense. What are you watching? Also how about staying on topic and commenting on the point of the thread?

crzymdups
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1/3/2012  2:12 AM
only bright spot of that post is that baron davis is ranked 7th in that passing chart... whatever metric it is using.
¿ △ ?
nixluva
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1/3/2012  2:44 AM
crzymdups wrote:only bright spot of that post is that baron davis is ranked 7th in that passing chart... whatever metric it is using.

That's an astute observation. People often makeup their minds who and what a player is, but not always based on fact. More often it's perception and media based. Baron Davis will be the best natural passer and breakdown PG we've had since MDA has been here. The HUGE question is whether he'll ever actually play a game. His health is a major ? right now. There's no telling how it will react once he starts playing and putting stress on it. I'm just hoping we can get him back healthy cuz that would totally change the way this team plays.

We really need to see what we can get out of Shump when he gets back too. Only having Fields and Walker is not filling the need for a PG/SG who can handle the ball and breakdown a defense or at least make drives to the basket in an effective way. Shump is a superior athlete with the ball over Fields and Walker. So you can add that to the problems we've had too. The fear was a weak backcourt and that's exactly what has happened so far. No good PG or SG play is killing this team. Perhaps you can get by without a good PG if you have a SG who can create and get into the teeth of the defense, but we've had neither.

crzymdups
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1/3/2012  3:15 AM
hey, i eagerly await shump - he's one of the only guys on the roster who can break his man down off the dribble. it remains to be seen whether he can create for others after he does that. but if he can, he will be insanely valuable.

and, yeah, this season depends on baron in a lot of ways. it's a little scary. but for some reason, i have complete faith that he'll be healthy and be a great fit for the team.

¿ △ ?
Michael6835
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1/3/2012  5:28 AM
He has until mid season,if we are still losing , then the watch is on. I think you need to give him time, each new team takes time to settle in. Usually takes the pg some time, I know Td has been with us awhile, but I don't consider him a traditional pg. it took the heat time to gel, grant it they have 2 mega stars in wade and James.
M
nixluva
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1/3/2012  5:53 AM
Michael6835 wrote:He has until mid season,if we are still losing , then the watch is on. I think you need to give him time, each new team takes time to settle in. Usually takes the pg some time, I know Td has been with us awhile, but I don't consider him a traditional pg. it took the heat time to gel, grant it they have 2 mega stars in wade and James.

The heat have two stars that actually create for themselves and others, which is a major advantage. They have the ball in their hands a LOT but they know what to do with it. Heck even Norris Cole is far better than TD in terms of playing his position.

TD is not playing to his strengths at the PG spot and we know this but for now he has to find a way to improve his decision making until help arrives. I wish we had Lin in here during training camp cuz it's hard to fit him in right now with no preparation. I think he could've helped if they had time to work with him. Now he's behind the rest of the team and there isn't a lot of practice time. Bibby is not going to give you much and can't penetrate or defend at a high level anymore. It's gonna be good to get Shump back at least.

SupremeCommander
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1/3/2012  5:54 AM
ThisSystem(square peg) + ThisRoster(round hole) + = TheBestSeasonEver!(denial)
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
NYKBocker
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1/3/2012  8:26 AM
Free Jeremy Lin!
misterearl
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1/3/2012  8:53 AM
NYKBocker wrote:Free Jeremy Lin!

+ 5

once a knick always a knick
ramtour420
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1/3/2012  9:43 AM
Ok, so Lin is not gonna be playing until after Davis comes back. Can we meanwhile find a PG in minor league or Europe with a single skill -running the PnR? Is that so rare ?
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
airchibundo507
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1/3/2012  10:44 AM
there is no system so to speak. it's either lebron ball or midrange iso, which can be very effective now that Melo has transformed into a capable passer and playmaker, but not when our shooters can't make a damn outside shot to save their lives. Offense shouldn't be this difficult. there should be off ball movement to generate easy shots for guys like fields and Douglas. backdoor cuts, give and go from post, offball screens... anything. fields needs to break free from this spot up shooter role because he is useless in that role when his shot is off, which is often
"LINISH HIM!"
Rookie
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1/3/2012  11:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/3/2012  11:26 AM
From what I've seen, we've been playing a half court offense. Haven't seen 7 seconds or less yet. How many fast break points have we gotten in the first 5 games?
nixluva
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1/3/2012  11:24 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:ThisSystem(square peg) + ThisRoster(round hole) + = TheBestSeasonEver!(denial)

How about giving some proof that the "system" is a Square peg to this roster's round hole? The only thing that is missing is a PG to run the PnR and drive and kick. The team is full of spot up shooters that don't create their own shots!!! No post up bigs except for Melo. So with no penetrating PG teams just clog the paint and shift to Melo and that's enough to shut down the offense.

Who is making all these passes to cutters if we change the offense right now? They don't consistently move the ball from qtr to qtr cuz none of these guys are good passers. You can't expect them to improve that much. The answer to the problem on offense is better talent in the backcourt!!! Shump, B Diddy and maybe Lin if he gets coached up.

SupremeCommander
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1/3/2012  11:39 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/3/2012  11:46 AM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:ThisSystem(square peg) + ThisRoster(round hole) + = TheBestSeasonEver!(denial)

How about giving some proof that the "system" is a Square peg to this roster's round hole? The only thing that is missing is a PG to run the PnR and drive and kick. The team is full of spot up shooters that don't create their own shots!!! No post up bigs except for Melo. So with no penetrating PG teams just clog the paint and shift to Melo and that's enough to shut down the offense.

Who is making all these passes to cutters if we change the offense right now? They don't consistently move the ball from qtr to qtr cuz none of these guys are good passers. You can't expect them to improve that much. The answer to the problem on offense is better talent in the backcourt!!! Shump, B Diddy and maybe Lin if he gets coached up.


Knicks Roster

2011-12 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YEARS
7 Melo F 6-8 230 5/29/84 Cuse 8
32 Balk F 6-8 225 7/14/84 S Car 5
20 Bibby G 6-2 195 5/13/78 Zona 13
6 Tyson C 7-1 240 10/2/82 HS 10
85 Bdiddy G 6-3 212 4/13/79 UCLA 12
23 TD G 6-2 185 3/16/86 FSU 2
2 Fields G 6-7 215 6/27/88 Stan 1
55 Jorts C 6-10 275 2/12/89 Ken R
9 Effries F 6-11 240 11/25/81 Indiana 9
44 JJ3 C 7-0 240 9/29/86 Tulsa R
17 Lin G 6-3 200 8/23/88 Harvard 1
16 Novak F 6-10 240 6/13/83 Marq 5
21 Shump G 6-5 220 6/26/190 Ga Tech R
1 Amear F-C 6-11 260 11/16/82 HS 9
5 Walker G-F 6-6 235 10/9/87 KSU 3


DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
NYKBocker
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1/3/2012  11:43 AM
Rookie wrote:From what I've seen, we've been playing a half court offense. Haven't seen 7 seconds or less yet. How many fast break points have we gotten in the first 5 games?

That is why we need to play Lin some. Both TD and Bibby can't push the damn ball. It is really painful to watch. Both Chandler and Amare are great in the open floor. They should be running these cats.

nixluva
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1/3/2012  12:13 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:ThisSystem(square peg) + ThisRoster(round hole) + = TheBestSeasonEver!(denial)

How about giving some proof that the "system" is a Square peg to this roster's round hole? The only thing that is missing is a PG to run the PnR and drive and kick. The team is full of spot up shooters that don't create their own shots!!! No post up bigs except for Melo. So with no penetrating PG teams just clog the paint and shift to Melo and that's enough to shut down the offense.

Who is making all these passes to cutters if we change the offense right now? They don't consistently move the ball from qtr to qtr cuz none of these guys are good passers. You can't expect them to improve that much. The answer to the problem on offense is better talent in the backcourt!!! Shump, B Diddy and maybe Lin if he gets coached up.


Knicks Roster

2011-12 Roster
NUM PLAYER POS HT WT DOB FROM YEARS
7 Melo F 6-8 230 5/29/84 Cuse 8
32 Balk F 6-8 225 7/14/84 S Car 5
20 Bibby G 6-2 195 5/13/78 Zona 13
6 Tyson C 7-1 240 10/2/82 HS 10
85 Bdiddy G 6-3 212 4/13/79 UCLA 12
23 TD G 6-2 185 3/16/86 FSU 2
2 Fields G 6-7 215 6/27/88 Stan 1
55 Jorts C 6-10 275 2/12/89 Ken R
9 Effries F 6-11 240 11/25/81 Indiana 9
44 JJ3 C 7-0 240 9/29/86 Tulsa R
17 Lin G 6-3 200 8/23/88 Harvard 1
16 Novak F 6-10 240 6/13/83 Marq 5
21 Shump G 6-5 220 6/26/190 Ga Tech R
1 Amear F-C 6-11 260 11/16/82 HS 9
5 Walker G-F 6-6 235 10/9/87 KSU 3



That was just STUPID!!! How about you just stop posting in this thread if you're going to do dumb things like this? We all know the roster. Could you have given specifics as to why the team was top 5 offense in the league last year and now all of a sudden these players don't fit the system?

The only clear difference is NO PG!!!

OjilEye
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1/3/2012  12:28 PM
ramtour420 wrote:Ok, so Lin is not gonna be playing until after Davis comes back. Can we meanwhile find a PG in minor league or Europe with a single skill -running the PnR? Is that so rare ?

Wait, shouldn't it be the other way around?

Let's utilize Lin to the best of his capability until B. Davis and Shump are healthy.

misterearl
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1/3/2012  12:33 PM
OjilEye wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Ok, so Lin is not gonna be playing until after Davis comes back. Can we meanwhile find a PG in minor league or Europe with a single skill -running the PnR? Is that so rare ?

Wait, shouldn't it be the other way around?

Let's utilize Lin to the best of his capability until B. Davis and Shump are healthy.

+fidee

Free Jeremy Lin

once a knick always a knick
There's nothing wrong with the System

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