Nice post Guns...
That throws the arguement that Keith will be missed in the playoffs right out the window. We'll see how well he does in a team without Steph... His numbers the second half of the season will drop. Marbury makes everyone around him better.
I'm looking forward to seeing these two new pieces play for us.
Enough about Can't Horn!!!
The guy was a good Knick... now he is gone...
GET OVER IT!!!!!!

Also... Nets made it far because of Kidd...
Van Horn many argue cost them the finals..
Along with Martin...

I miss Spree a lot!!!
We lost alot more talent the day we traded him than when we got rid of Van Horn.. But us Hardcore Knick fans who love heart, defense, and pride have come to terms with that loss... I think you need to do the same Playa....

Even isiah admited KVH was the best player in the deal and when you trade the best player in a deal you run the risk of something going wrong, something not clicking.

Tim Thomas is a lazy ballplayer who is softer than KVH. Tim Thomas is 6-10 240 pounds just as big as Amare Stoudamire and cant even pull down 5 rebounds dude can't bust a grape. He plays like a 6-5 player. NUFF SAID!

Tim Thomas did all that in the playoffs with cassel, ray allen, big dog and payton. KVH was the scorer on the Nets but didn't show up in the playoffs, other than that big shot against Boston....enough said!

if he can average 7rebs as a Knick I'll be more than happy.

bottom line is tt fits in better w/this team. no disrespect to keeef, he played well. alot better than some thought he would, but tim can run alot better than keeef. we'll see how well the team functions. consider the fact that when we had eisley and ward, the team would run the floor and have to stop and wait for their respective points. we made trades...then we had steph running the floor and having to wait for the team. now we got guys that can actually run w/steph. that was the idea of the trade. like i said, not taking anything from keeef, but take allan for example, hellafide player but can't play the best D in the world. would'nt do too well on a primarily defensive team. get the idea? we lose some scoring in keeef but we can play a much better transition game.

KVH had the kiss of death. He was compared to Bird.

This trade was KVH for TT AND MOHAMMED. It was not a straight up deal. IT himself said he probably would not have done the deal of KVH for TT, so the discussion is moot. TT is not the offensive player KVH is as far as scoring. He is more athletic and will do better in a running style which NY is playing now. If NY gets Doleac back, this trade was a STEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mohammed is a tough C who can rebound enough for TT not to be a great rebounder. KT/Nazr/Deke and OH or Sweets will do the rebounding. TT has to do the little things that helps teams win. Score when the play is not run for him, keep balls alive on the glass, be active and fast and play hard every night.

The thing with KVH is that when he disappears he usually totally disappers. His rebounding too. I think TT will do more of the other things more consistently.

Look at Nazr as the key to this deal, not TT. NY traded 1 to get 2. They have more depth now and will still be oK because of Steph, H20 and KT.

Well... I was thinking about this last night. It's pretty clear that I haven't been a big fan of this trade--- trading a more talented player for 2 "solid, but less talented" players.

I realize that when comparing stats, one thing that doesn't show up in stats:

Keith Van Horn, for his career, has been the most part a top-2 scoring option on his teams. Tim Thomas, during most of his tenure on the Bucks, was the #4 (or even lower) scoring option.

What's missing in this is that KVH's production has come with opponents gearing their defense to stop him. On any given night (if left open), he can do a lot of damage. He makes defenses change the way they play.

While Tim Thomas's playoff numbers are marginally superior to KVH's, his success has come with him as a 3-5 scoring option, meaning teams were too worried about stopping Ray Allen, Sam Cassell, and Glenn Robinson, so he probably saw a lot of open shots or was guarded by a mismatched defender. As a player coming off the bench, he was given opportunities against bench players. Teams didn't go into Milwaukee thinking, "we need to stop TT if we're gonna win this..." They had other things on their minds.

One loss against Utah is really not a good way to judge these players, however a couple of things crossed my mind:

KVH & Doleac could really shoot the ball. Unguarded, they were fairly automatic. KVH, in particular, often took shots with a defender nearby and still had a decent FG%.

Tim Thomas is a lot like Penny--- for the most part, they only shoot when they're wide open. The arc on their shots tend to be a little inconsistent, so in spite of their open shots, they also miss a fair number of them. You could argue that while they have decent FG percentages, since they're shooting high percentage shots they should be making MORE.

IMHO, while others argue we're a better team because of this, I'd have to disagree. In this age of the NBA when teams have the option of playing zone, filling your team with good shooters is a priority. We were moving the ball well and getting open shots--- AND HITTING THEM. That to me is a good formula for victory.

Tim Thomas is a clear downgrade offensively IMO, and the trade is a wash defensively. Nazr Mohammed might be a good long term PF/C option, however, so long as he's only playing 15mpg he's no better than Doleac--- and arguably worse since he can't hit the medium range jumper and spread the defense.

Techno again your assesement is on point!